IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #65

[Yemelyan]

I just don't see someone all amped up from a murderous attack hitchhiking. Too risky.

If someone was truly hitchhiking after committing a double murder, then no, I agree that's not very probable to me. But I think what's being suggested is that LE used the term hitchhiking because that's what it would have looked like if a witness driving happened to see a walker on a road where people normally wouldn't walk (a highway). Perhaps even someone being picked up by an accomplice in a car? Also unlikely but it could appear to be hitchhiking to a witness thinking back to that day in February.

 

[JnRyan]

"We're asking people that were driving down the Hoosier Heartland that might have seen a hitchhiker or someone walking. We're asking people that live in Logansport all the way to Lafayette, if they saw somebody late that afternoon, that evening of Monday the 13th, if they saw somebody walking down the roadway that just did not look like they should be there, or they're just a hitchhiker, we would like to talk to that person," said Sgt. Kim Riley, Indiana State Police.

From February 20

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...g-road-near-delphi-police-want-to-talk-to-you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for this. I knew I had read that before and couldn't find the source. Strange that this was mentioned early in the first week and not much since. LE has learned something different from the 24K-25K tips? LE did hear from someone and it is one source of the sketch? BUT we've heard NO mention of a vehicle from LE even though they haven't brought up the hitchhiker/walker point again. It would seem that IF he went across the creek with Abigail and Liberty his pants would still be wet for a while afterwards. That would stand out, I would think.

 

[JnRyan]

If someone was truly hitchhiking after committing a double murder, then no, I agree that's not very probable to me. But I think what's being suggested is that LE used the term hitchhiking because that's what it would have looked like if a witness driving happened to see a walker on a road where people normally wouldn't walk (a highway). Perhaps even someone being picked up by an accomplice in a car? Also unlikely but it could appear to be hitchhiking to a witness thinking back to that day in February.

My thoughts exactly. If he exited the area where Abigail and Liberty were found - e.g., near the cemetery - instead of where he might have entered the trail could he have walked on W 300 N to the Hoosier Heartland Hwy and from there back to his vehicle? Probably very little traffic on W 300 N, but in that scenario someone may have seen him on the highway.

 

[No it's not]

[video=youtube;Y7woBaWcaxQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7woBaWcaxQ[/video]

-Nin

 

[cluciano63]

Didn't LE say the girls talked about the strange man following them or behind them? (Or did I read that wrong?)

If they knew him, they would have said so, i.e so and so's uncle, the man from the deli, etc...so, jmo they did not know him or recognize him or expect to meet up with him. Jmo

 

[Steleheart]

"We're asking people that were driving down the Hoosier Heartland that might have seen a hitchhiker or someone walking. We're asking people that live in Logansport all the way to Lafayette, if they saw somebody late that afternoon, that evening of Monday the 13th, if they saw somebody walking down the roadway that just did not look like they should be there, or they're just a hitchhiker, we would like to talk to that person," said Sgt. Kim Riley, Indiana State Police.

From February 20

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...g-road-near-delphi-police-want-to-talk-to-you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

.

I remember this well. And also these quotes;

We want to look at any aspect of what somebody might have seen," Riley said, adding that if someone saw a person throwing away a backpack, they'd be interested in tracking that down, too.

http://www.jconline.com/story/news/crime/2017/02/20/police-look-outside-delphi-suspect/98158706/

"We're trying to get people that were driving down the Hoosier Heartland, that were on the interstate, that were in Logansport that might have saw somebody walking, hitchhiking-- if they saw a duffle bag laying somewhere, anything. We're just reaching out for people that saw anything within that distance," Riley said.

http://www.wthr.com/article/tips-pour-in-after-suspect-identified-in-delphi-double-homicide

So I am unsure how accurate the reporters got the quotes since there is no transcript for the presser, but it has been discussed quite a bit so, IMO, backpack, hitchhiker and duffle bag are still on the table.

JMO

 

[htiff]

If someone was truly hitchhiking after committing a double murder, then no, I agree that's not very probable to me. But I think what's being suggested is that LE used the term hitchhiking because that's what it would have looked like if a witness driving happened to see a walker on a road where people normally wouldn't walk (a highway). Perhaps even someone being picked up by an accomplice in a car? Also unlikely but it could appear to be hitchhiking to a witness thinking back to that day in February.

If this is still in reference to the Feb 20 article, I agree. It's a really interesting aspect to LE's investigation on this. On the one hand I agree with rosesfromangels that it's so hard to conceive of someone arriving in Delphi without a vehicle on a very cold winter's day. And rather than finding a way to get home, taking a hike in the afternoon, and choosing that moment to murder two girls in broad daylight, on public/private property, with no immediate means of escape.

Delphi may not even have a Greyhound bus stop, it doesn't appear to be directly serviced by Amtrack, and there is no local bus service that I could find. Such a thing may exist, but it's uncertain how easy this would be to reach.

So hitch hiking may be more common in that region, than say if you lived in Lafayette or Indianapolis.

But that said, the wording by LE is very interesting, and might indicate that they were able to follow this guys trail away from the crime scene. Just seems possible.

 

[htiff]

Didn't LE say the girls talked about the strange man following them or behind them? (Or did I read that wrong?)

If they knew him, they would have said so, i.e so and so's uncle, the man from the deli, etc...so, jmo they did not know him or recognize him or expect to meet up with him. Jmo

This may have been speculated about, but LE has never said what the girls were discussing on any of the recording that they have from that day.

 

[htiff]

I just don't see someone all amped up from a murderous attack hitchhiking. Too risky.

I would tend to agree with this, but the fact that LE is specifically asking about State Road 25 is interesting. And it really might be that they believe this guy had to walk to get to a vehicle. It could also mean they don't think he had a means of transportation.

I do have to wonder if they did figure out by footprints and scent dogs, where, this guy might have exited the trails or the private property. It's not conclusive, but it is intriguing.

 

[htiff]

.

I remember this well. And also these quotes;


http://www.jconline.com/story/news/crime/2017/02/20/police-look-outside-delphi-suspect/98158706/



http://www.wthr.com/article/tips-pour-in-after-suspect-identified-in-delphi-double-homicide

So I am unsure how accurate the reporters got the quotes since there is no transcript for the presser, but it has been discussed quite a bit so, IMO, backpack, hitchhiker and duffle bag are still on the table.

JMO

Don't know exactly what to conclude from this, but these quotes are very interesting. It certainly shows how many directions the investigation has taken. But again, the fact that the main entrance (and now the only official existing parking lot) for the Monon High Bridge Trail is just off of State Road 25, and that road leads directly to the two nearest large cities near Delphi, is interesting. (to me, anyway)

It kind of harkens back to some of the other mysteries on this case--what was the killer doing on that trail in the first place? Why that trail? Why a trail so very far from the center of Delphi? Why was he there in the mid-afternoon on a work-day? What made him feel he could do what he did, and why wasn't he more concerned about being on private property?

[I personally would be afraid to venture on private property in a rural area like that, in a stand-your-ground state. I'd be terrified of being shot or discovered by an irate property owner. And most, if not all, of the properties adjacent to the trail had homes on them. The homes were closer to the main road, W 300 N, but the homes were not all that far from the trail and creek.]

I just can't help but feel that state road 25 may have been an important conduit for all this, somehow.

 

[Eileen730]

I dont think he works. Jmo

 

[htiff]

Just a little review of the demographics of the Delphi area. Delphi is approximately the same distance (30 min, drive-on Hoosier Heartland Highway in either direction) from Logansport and Lafayette (In).

Delphi has a population of 3000. or 3k

Logansport is not a huge city, it's about 20k, but it has a very high crime rate, as does Lafayette and West Lafayette.

(Lafayette and West Lafayette combined, reach about 200k in population.)



To get a picture of the difference in crime rates between the cities--


According to Sperlings crime reports: using a scale of 1 to 100, where 1 is the lowest crime rate, and 100 is the highest, here is how the three cities rate:

Delphi is at 18 for violent crime, 39 for property crime

Logansport is at 56.7 for violent crime; 59.2 for property crime

Lafayette is at 44 for violent crime, 56 property crime

The national average for violent crime is 31 for violent crime, 38 for property crime

So, though Delphi rarely sees violent crime, it's not far from 2 cities that experience quite a bit of violent crime, higher than the national average.

Is it possible that Delphi was targeted because people are known to be less afraid, less wary?--one news report noted that people weren't even locking their front doors in Delphi before these murders. But they certainly do now.

 

[htiff]

I dont think he works. Jmo

I thought that at first too. But he could do itinerate work, as a carpenter, etc. He also might work a job that has shifts on the weekends, so Monday could be one of his days off. Or he works as a loader (these jobs are prevalent in the area), and some of those shifts start at 6am, and you get off in the early afternoon.)

It's so hard to know. But he wasn't at work the afternoon of Monday, February 13, 2017, that's for sure.

 

[Kateinfl]

.

I remember this well. And also these quotes;


http://www.jconline.com/story/news/crime/2017/02/20/police-look-outside-delphi-suspect/98158706/



http://www.wthr.com/article/tips-pour-in-after-suspect-identified-in-delphi-double-homicide

So I am unsure how accurate the reporters got the quotes since there is no transcript for the presser, but it has been discussed quite a bit so, IMO, backpack, hitchhiker and duffle bag are still on the table.

JMO

the quote about anyone that might have seen someone throwing out a backpack sounds strange. I wonder if they found a backpack on one of those roads and not telling the public. Could be one of those things they are keeping secret. Maybe one of the backpacks the girls may have had with them . JMO

 

[mpnola]

As politely as I know how I would like to address this sort of comment here. It's not the only one of it's kind. I think this post in question might have been better sent in a private message. It seems like the message is just the sharing of a private joke in public (with unnamed members and about unnamed members) ...leaving "others" to wonder if they should even DARE to comment again at the expense of aggravating and angering "others." There is value in opinions we may not agree with, imo. Creating an atmosphere of "us against them" is not helpful in any way at all imo. It's intimidating, unkind, unnecessary and unproductive, imo.
I'm here and, I suspect, many are here because we are heart sick about what happened and we can't do a thing about it other than try to come up with answers. We have hardly a scrap of information to work with. We're all frustrated but, one thing we can do is be kind and polite to each other. Why not? I truly do not understand why not.
I'm reluctant to post this "quick reply," of course. I will anyway because I think this message is important, imo.
It's all just my opinion

No, no. I'm not talking to anyone directly enough to private message anything. It is my opinion that I feel needs to be put out there in the open. And it is less about people's opinions about this whole, wild, confusing case--- because as easily as a person can be right, a person can be wrong. My post is more geared toward being sensitive to the fact that these were 2 young girls who were brutally murdered while enjoying their day off school. To question why they didn't do x, y, or z is to suggest that they contributed to their own demise. If they were alive, it would inflict shame about why they didn't xyz. It just really rubs me the wrong way. I hope it makes people think twice before questioning their actions or commenting on who would be his desired target, based on looks. It just feels....... icky. Instead of celebrating the bravery and honoring the horrific events that they (and they families) are going through, we get to talk about what they could have done to be alive... Does that make sense? I'm not sure if I am clear, this morning.

And I definitely am not trying to write any hidden, cryptic, inside jokes. If you go back to thread 1, page 1, I am probably posting on there. So, I have been there through lots of round and round discussions. One was about his jeans. For multiple threads. The brand, the kind, are they wet, are they waders. are they "hunting pants"... ad nauseum, we inspected it. I was just saying that if I had to choose between the jeans or conversations that feel like we are revictimizing our victims, I will take the jeans!

I LOVE this convo about the backpack and the hitch hiking thing. We honestly, haven't delved into that a whole lot, and it seems like there are some big clues there. It feels like something we can gather info about without questioning the victims. I hope this made my intentions clear. I am quite protective of these little sweeties, as I know we all are. I just think sometimes, things are said that are unintentionally harmful to them, and I wanted to point it out. Just as a bit of a yield sign for people questioning their actions.

Have a great Sunday, y'all! I cannot wait until the day they say they made an arrest. And crazily, as with most cases of "random murderer" type cases I follow, it will probably be someone that was not on a single one of our radars. It will be the first time we hear his name. And hopefully, it will be the last time that monster steps a free foot into society. Sleuth on, Master Sleuthers! I am humbled and amazed at the skills on this site daily!

(And thank you Jim. I also love your brain! Mine, is admittedly fiesty 20 out of 24 hours a day! )

 

[mpnola]

the quote about anyone that might have seen someone throwing out a backpack sounds strange. I wonder if they found a backpack on one of those roads and not telling the public. Could be one of those things they are keeping secret. Maybe one of the backpacks the girls may have had with them . JMO

Yes, this whole thing about seeing a backpack or a hitchhiker seemed packed with actual info, rather than guessing it might happen. That leads me to believe there was some solid evidence pointing in that direction. I think that is super important. I can;t stop thinking about all the scenarios of how this would happen.

 

[Steleheart]

the quote about anyone that might have seen someone throwing out a backpack sounds strange. I wonder if they found a backpack on one of those roads and not telling the public. Could be one of those things they are keeping secret. Maybe one of the backpacks the girls may have had with them . JMO

That's been my thought all along. They didn't ask about a specific pack like if you see a pink backpack, etc. Makes me think they found a backpack and want to know who tossed it out. It's been my feeling that BG changed those clothes - they looked too bulky like he had his regular clothes under.

JMO

 

[htiff]

No, no. I'm not talking to anyone directly enough to private message anything. It is my opinion that I feel needs to be put out there in the open. And it is less about people's opinions about this whole, wild, confusing case--- because as easily as a person can be right, a person can be wrong. My post is more geared toward being sensitive to the fact that these were 2 young girls who were brutally murdered while enjoying their day off school. To question why they didn't do x, y, or z is to suggest that they contributed to their own demise. If they were alive, it would inflict shame about why they didn't xyz. It just really rubs me the wrong way. I hope it makes people think twice before questioning their actions or commenting on who would be his desired target, based on looks. It just feels....... icky. Instead of celebrating the bravery and honoring the horrific events that they (and they families) are going through, we get to talk about what they could have done to be alive... Does that make sense? I'm not sure if I am clear, this morning.

And I definitely am not trying to write any hidden, cryptic, inside jokes. If you go back to thread 1, page 1, I am probably posting on there. So, I have been there through lots of round and round discussions. One was about his jeans. For multiple threads. The brand, the kind, are they wet, are they waders. are they "hunting pants"... ad nauseum, we inspected it. I was just saying that if I had to choose between the jeans or conversations that feel like we are revictimizing our victims, I will take the jeans!

I LOVE this convo about the backpack and the hitch hiking thing. We honestly, haven't delved into that a whole lot, and it seems like there are some big clues there. It feels like something we can gather info about without questioning the victims. I hope this made my intentions clear. I am quite protective of these little sweeties, as I know we all are. I just think sometimes, things are said that are unintentionally harmful to them, and I wanted to point it out. Just as a bit of a yield sign for people questioning their actions.

Have a great Sunday, y'all! I cannot wait until the day they say they made an arrest. And crazily, as with most cases of "random murderer" type cases I follow, it will probably be someone that was not on a single one of our radars. It will be the first time we hear his name. And hopefully, it will be the last time that monster steps a free foot into society. Sleuth on, Master Sleuthers! I am humbled and amazed at the skills on this site daily!

(And thank you Jim. I also love your brain! Mine, is admittedly fiesty 20 out of 24 hours a day! )

I agree. We can't know what the girls were feeling, all we know is that they had a plan for the afternoon. They were in a place they had been to many times before and had been safe in before. And then without much warning they are somehow forced from that location to where they were found dead about a 1/2 mile away. They were barely on that trail for an hour when everything seems to have gone wrong. They didn't stand much of a chance.

To try and play Monday-morning-quarterback to the last moments of these innocent girl's lives seems very unfair to them. And because we can't possibly know what they were thinking or feeling, not sure how this helps find their killer.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Didn't LE say the girls talked about the strange man following them or behind them? (Or did I read that wrong?)

If they knew him, they would have said so, i.e so and so's uncle, the man from the deli, etc...so, jmo they did not know him or recognize him or expect to meet up with him. Jmo

That is what LE have recently said. You are right that this means they did not know him and werent expecting anyone AFAICS. I think it also rules out that he had a vehicle parked at the South end on the private road. I think this is important to note. Of course there could be an accomplice in a car but I don't think that is the case either as I think the girls would have noticed that too and found a way to record it
So someone they didnt know who made them uncomfortable . This could therefore only be a serial killer, a maniac or a revenge/professional killer IMO. We can now rule out any theories involving catfishing, someone they knew or use of a vehicle and a second accomplice or CS based on this new LE info. AJMO but based on LE facts.

 

[Deleted member 278]

So, I will ask again. Does anyone recall reading anywhere in MSM that the girls saw and waved to friends on the trail/bridge?

Anyone? Anyone?