IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #66

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There is the evidence of the helicopter video footage showing the searchers linking hands going across the Creek. It's in the media thread.

The water levels of the creek may vary at different locations. If I recall correctly, there was a video of the area looking at a potential crossing site that was ankle deep.
I'm not sure if the news media helicopter footage is from the same exact location on the creek as the above mentioned video.
The girls may have crossed at the shallow location, but searchers would have been looking downstream in a deeper location for possible evidence.
 
From Gracie Post #637: My response is at bottom.

This next is not to encourage theories around MS-13 involvement, or anything related to the pending class action suit against Indiana Packers Corp. (IPC ) But the following complaint does give an interesting assessment of those who work at this particular meat packing plant.

The average worker at the plant does not have a high school diploma and is likely to have some type of criminal record, making other jobs less feasible. Workers at the plant come from a 50 mile radius of Delphi. And the jobs at the plant are physically strenuous and dangerous. Though this next isn't stated, it seems that there might be a fair bit of turnover at the plant.

http://www.fosterpc.com/wp-content/u...-doc-no-19.pdf

Excerpt from the complaint:

"9. IPC is located in Delphi, Indiana (population approximately 2,888) in Carroll County(population approximately 20,086). Virtually all the employees at the plant reside within a50-mile radius. This area includes: Jasper, Pulaski, Fulton, Benton, White, Carroll, Cass,Miami, Warren, Tippecanoe, Clinton, Howard, Tipton, Montgomery, and Boone counties, allin Indiana.

10. Data from the United States Census Bureau’s American Community Survey (“ACS”) support the approximate 50-mile radius for the definition of the labor market. These data indicate that the mean commuting time to the job for workers with less than a high school education is 21minutes for those living in Indiana and 24 minutes for those living in other states. In Indiana,94% of workers with less than a high school education have a commuting time to the job of45 minutes or less. 94% of workers with less than a high school education who live in theIPC labor market commute to work in 45 or fewer minutes and half commute in less than 15minutes. Nationally, for workers with less than a high school degree who are employed as butchers and other meat, poultry and fish processing workers (U.S. Census Bureau occupation code 7810), the mean commuting time is 21 minutes and 94% commute to working 45 or fewer minutes."


There are three shifts--6AM-3PM; 3PM-11PM or 1AM--and then I'm guessing an 11PM to dawn shift, as well.

And the plant is a four minute drive on 25 to the Monon High Bridge Trail--making it a perfect place to get fresh air, before or after a long grueling shift.

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Looking at what is "kind-of" known about the killer of these girls--the killer does seem to have some familiarity with the trail. He blended in so much, that no one seemed to really notice him until after the girls were discovered murdered. I've been looking at pics of events in Delphi, and every guy, pretty much (save Bikers) looks like the guy in that photo. Everything from the heavy hoodie, to the jeans--that is common Delphi attire, and perhaps attire common to much of rural Indiana.

It seems very possible that the killer resides within 50 miles of the trail. That he has some kind of criminal record-as he seemed comfortable with what he did on that trail. Murder isn't usually the first crime a person commits. And chances may be, he was employed in the area, and IPC is the main source of employment for Delphi and surrounding communities, especially for those who fit with this demographic.

Not saying that he worked at IPC, but that might be an excellent place to start. It doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility that the killer has some tie to that plant. Either he worked there or he has someone in his family who did or does.

If there is high turnover at that plant, then this might be a reason no one recognizes him. He blends in, and he may not have stood out at the job.​
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Last edited by Gracie2112; Yesterday at 04:32 PM.


Great job!

I would have hoped that these avenues, after 6 months, would have been exhausted by now. Proximity and the nature of that particular business screams 'look here'. That wouldn't eliminate transporters/truckers who were potentially in the vicinity of IN. The following is an informative site of the herculean task the FBI has in sorting through transport data:


http://www.trucking.orgAmerican Trucking Associations
http://www.trucking.org/Trucking_Issues_Security.aspx
Trucking Industry Revenues Were $676.2 Billion in 2016!!! and is the number one mode of transport in the US, 79.8% of its total

Although we know interstates have cameras that can identify subjects, we have to have the parameters to enter a search, i.e. a license plate number, which we don't have. I am reaching out to ATA on Monday and asking them to participate by distributing the sketch of suspect with any information we do have, through their electronic contacts/sources along with LE/FBI contact info.

Bottom line: LE needs to drop more info on the public regarding this case. All supposition IMOO.
 
When LE used the expression "no blue eyes" as they did, it almost certainly was an implicit admission that they indeed have DNA, but that it did not provide them with a database match. Consequently, the next step for them was to have a Parabon Pheontyping Snapshot report created, which provided them with the recently released composite image. As an example, here is an actual Snapshot creation of a suspect in a 1986 murder who has yet to be identified, much less apprehended. (Note the "99% confidence" that his eyes are brown/hazel, i.e., not blue.)


I would just like to update this notion of the blue eyes.

IIRC it was the witness who insisted the suspect did not have blue eyes. It wasn't LE from a DNA profile. There is no information other than what was actually said. They used a witness with the sketch artist.

"Riley said the witness who saw the suspect was close enough to him to say that he did not have blue eyes, but was uncertain of his eye color."
http://www.nwitimes.com/news/state-...cle_968b0a4c-bab9-5fdb-9112-d0d0cebf0488.html

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/07/17/indiana-police-to-release-new-evidence-in-killing-2-teens.html
 
Lol.... No certainly not channelling.

I apologise its just the way I write.

My post was an idea/theory of what may have happened and under what circumstances it could have occured ..... I probably should have put the IMO this is just a possible scenario.

Ohh Jim M ..... I swear it wasn't me who made your power go out.

Puggle x

Dear Puggle, It really was the weirdest thing! And funny too!

As I believe I understand your post: This monster, BG, was meeting up with other people in the vicinity. If BG thought the girls may have witnessed something, BG took it upon himself to rectify the matter. The people (potential scared witnesses) meeting with BG would never want to come forward. They are that scared of BG. As well as involved in nefarious business that would put them all in the slammer, for a very long time. It's another scenario that could hold water depending on what LE uncovered at the CS.

These beautiful young children deserve justice. I certainly hope it can come soon!
 
I would just like to update this notion of the blue eyes.

IIRC it was the witness who insisted the suspect did not have blue eyes. It wasn't LE from a DNA profile. There is no information other than what was actually said. They used a witness with the sketch artist.

"Riley said the witness who saw the suspect was close enough to him to say that he did not have blue eyes, but was uncertain of his eye color."
http://www.nwitimes.com/news/state-...cle_968b0a4c-bab9-5fdb-9112-d0d0cebf0488.html

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/07/17/indiana-police-to-release-new-evidence-in-killing-2-teens.html

Thanks, Steleheart. I'm not convinced, though. LE isn't above putting out misinformation to the news media if it suits their own purpose. Besides, a witness coming forward months later with perfect recollection as to the color of someone's eyes? There's a recent link posted here to an article detailing the unreliability of eyewitness accounts. Additionally, anyone passing BG on the trail isn't thinking, "I better take note of this random guy's eye color because months from now I'm going to be asked to recall everything I can about him".
 
Dear Puggle, It really was the weirdest thing! And funny too!

As I believe I understand your post: This monster, BG, was meeting up with other people in the vicinity. If BG thought the girls may have witnessed something, BG took it upon himself to rectify the matter. The people (potential scared witnesses) meeting with BG would never want to come forward. They are that scared of BG. As well as involved in nefarious business that would put them all in the slammer, for a very long time. It's another scenario that could hold water depending on what LE uncovered at the CS.

These beautiful young children deserve justice. I certainly hope it can come soon!

Lol.... well maybe I do have powers ...

My scenario was in part based on a case we had here in Australia many many years ago ..... "The Bega Schoolgirls" .

Alot of differences ...in that case these girls were abducted by two men and were murdered after being repeatedly raped and driven around for over 12hrs ...

What fuelled these animals was they were both high on Meth ..... I am probablly trying to apply what happened in that case as a possibility..... could your BG Be high on drugs ... .... not even necessarily the girls saw anything ...... just a "off his face" deranged animal.

For me .... the phone being found .... IMO says ... unorganized killer.
 






Or LE was angling toward an unsolved case they believe is similar and they have a Parabon generated image that they thought might possibly be BG and that is what they showed to these witnesses as a starting point and the witnesses just added in details about any beard, mustache, etc. I would hope they did not do that but that is the only other alternative to having DNA of BG and still end up with a sketch that bears so many similarities to a parabon generated image.

Agree 100% that may be the case.[emoji4]


Always my opinion only [emoji230]
 
The water levels of the creek may vary at different locations. If I recall correctly, there was a video of the area looking at a potential crossing site that was ankle deep.
I'm not sure if the news media helicopter footage is from the same exact location on the creek as the above mentioned video.
The girls may have crossed at the shallow location, but searchers would have been looking downstream in a deeper location for possible evidence.
I video I saw, taken on the 14th by helicopter shows the water ankle deep near the crime scene. It also shows searchers further down stream where the water appears to be thigh deep. No where does it show waist deep. I also saw a video taken a few days later where someone had tried to trace the girls path. The water was very shallow directly across from the cs. She didn't cross the creek but showed a path they could have taken with bearly getting their feet wet.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
Thanks, Steleheart. I'm not convinced, though. LE isn't above putting out misinformation to the news media if it suits their own purpose. Besides, a witness coming forward months later with perfect recollection as to the color of someone's eyes? There's a recent link posted here to an article detailing the unreliability of eyewitness accounts. Additionally, anyone passing BG on the trail isn't thinking, "I better take note of this random guy's eye color because months from now I'm going to be asked to recall everything I can about him".
According to LE the sketch was the result of several witnesses. We don't know when those witnesses came forward.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
According to LE the sketch was the result of several witnesses. We don't know when those witnesses came forward.

I'm quoting from the same links Steleheart provided:

"Riley said the witness who saw the suspect was close enough to him to say that he did not have blue eyes, but was uncertain of his eye color."

http://www.nwitimes.com/news/state-and-regional/indiana/update-witness-aided-in-sketch-of-suspect-in-indiana-teens/article_968b0a4c-bab9-5fdb-9112-d0d0cebf0488.html

Witness ...... singular. Only one provided their months-old recollection of eye color. If you have a separate link stating multiple eyewitnesses claiming "no blue eyes", please provide it.

 
It's hard to believe that this perp would be so tech savvy as to create fake profiles using sophisticated VPNs and communicate only in a strictly untraceable manner. Had there been any prior communication, one has to believe LE would have tracked the perp down by now.

Were he that tech savvy, he'd have had a plan for her cell phone. Every parent should be aware of how to log in and find their child's phone, and that savvy a perp would be aware of that possibility.

Someone said they did the same hike previously. Someone said one lives close by. That makes more sense for them being there than a perp choosing a hiking path as a place to meet. He could have picked them up in his car, and have been long gone with the victims for days.

Agreed. He's no Kevin Mitnick.
MOO
 
I'm quoting from the same links Steleheart provided:

"Riley said the witness who saw the suspect was close enough to him to say that he did not have blue eyes, but was uncertain of his eye color."

http://www.nwitimes.com/news/state-and-regional/indiana/update-witness-aided-in-sketch-of-suspect-in-indiana-teens/article_968b0a4c-bab9-5fdb-9112-d0d0cebf0488.html

Witness ...... singular. Only one provided their months-old recollection of eye color. If you have a separate link stating multiple eyewitnesses claiming "no blue eyes", please provide it.

I can't open your link to comment on it. I was making the point that more than one wittness helped with the sketch. I never claimed more than one witness described eye color. I don't believe that LE ever commented on when most of the several witnesses came forward except one. We don't know which witness gave the info on eye color. For all we know some of these witnesses came forward on the 13th or 14th.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
I video I saw, taken on the 14th by helicopter shows the water ankle deep near the crime scene. It also shows searchers further down stream where the water appears to be thigh deep. No where does it show waist deep. I also saw a video taken a few days later where someone had tried to trace the girls path. The water was very shallow directly across from the cs. She didn't cross the creek but showed a path they could have taken with bearly getting their feet wet.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

I at first thought it was shallow myself but the video by the lady, Julie something...a few days later show the edge and it was not deep at all. However the charts and data someone posted showed that in just a few days it lowered its levels extremely. Then there is helicopter video showing LE or Fire Dept personnel waist deep. It made me rethink. I just looked at some data, I wish I found that post, sorry.
https://nwis.waterdata.usgs.gov/in/...od=&begin_date=2017-02-12&end_date=2017-02-18
 

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Dear Puggle, It really was the weirdest thing! And funny too!

As I believe I understand your post: This monster, BG, was meeting up with other people in the vicinity. If BG thought the girls may have witnessed something, BG took it upon himself to rectify the matter. The people (potential scared witnesses) meeting with BG would never want to come forward. They are that scared of BG. As well as involved in nefarious business that would put them all in the slammer, for a very long time. It's another scenario that could hold water depending on what LE uncovered at the CS.

These beautiful young children deserve justice. I certainly hope it can come soon!

@jim_m Thank you for articulating my personal thoughts so clearly.Puggle love the way you type.

KR
Reacher
 
I at first thought it was shallow myself but the video by the lady, Julie something...a few days later show the edge and it was not deep at all. However the charts and data someone posted showed that in just a few days it lowered its levels extremely. Then there is helicopter video showing LE or Fire Dept personnel waist deep. It made me rethink. I just looked at some data, I wish I found that post, sorry.
https://nwis.waterdata.usgs.gov/in/...od=&begin_date=2017-02-12&end_date=2017-02-18
I think it's safe to assume that the creek would have different depths. It sounds like we saw the same video. But I dispute that the water was waist deep further down stream from the cs as videoed. I rewatched it a few days ago. It appears to be thigh deep. It would make no sense for them to have crossed there. (Not saying it didnt happen tho.) To me it makes sense they crossed directly from the cs which was ankle deep.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
I think it's safe to assume that the creek would have different depths. It sounds like we saw the same video. But I dispute that the water was waist deep further down stream from the cs as videoed. I rewatched it a few days ago. It appears to be thigh deep. It would make no sense for them to have crossed there. (Not saying it didnt happen tho.) To me it makes sense they crossed directly from the cs which was ankle deep.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
You are right here is the next day, now the day before it would have been deeper. Here are screen shots from the video right across the creek from where they probably crossed, in the center and on the edge of where they were found.
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HvhKS1eRIMM ETA:sorry pics are messed up iPad is not cooperating
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I find it impossible to believe that people know who the perp is but he is "too scary" for anyone to come forward. Seems to me if there is such a scary person known to others in the area, LE would be aware of this person too. Smalltown LE are generally very up to date on knowing the villains in their communities, the so-called "usual suspects" even if they can't always get the goods to arrest them. By now, LE would know who this infamous villain is and it sure seems like they do not. Jmo
 
I at first thought it was shallow myself but the video by the lady, Julie something...a few days later show the edge and it was not deep at all. However the charts and data someone posted showed that in just a few days it lowered its levels extremely. Then there is helicopter video showing LE or Fire Dept personnel waist deep. It made me rethink. I just looked at some data, I wish I found that post, sorry.
https://nwis.waterdata.usgs.gov/in/...od=&begin_date=2017-02-12&end_date=2017-02-18
Is this the post you are thinking of:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Delphi-13-Feb-2017-47&p=13301286#post13301286
 
I find it impossible to believe that people know who the perp is but he is "too scary" for anyone to come forward. Seems to me if there is such a scary person known to others in the area, LE would be aware of this person too. Smalltown LE are generally very up to date on knowing the villains in their communities, the so-called "usual suspects" even if they can't always get the goods to arrest them. By now, LE would know who this infamous villain is and it sure seems like they do not. Jmo

Australia, another case of murder:
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...d/news-story/a459ed625d8cdfb5f71ffa695f4b1fb9

Crown prosecutor Victoria Engel told a committal hearing there were five witnesses who would give evidence against Holdom and asked that their identities be suppressed to protect their safety.

“Witness one and two have made statements implicating the accused in the murders,” Ms Engel told the court

“Witness five allegedly received an admission by the accused that he had killed the two persons but he didn’t report that.”

Ms Engel also said two of the witnesses (numbered two and three) were induced to make a statement to police.
5 witnesses who had known the suspect's deed for several years and didn't come forward. I think they only came forward when the suspect was already sitting in jail.
 
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