IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #67

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mrtnira said:
Nin, I suspect the attack occurred on Monday afternoon because it was a school holiday. Otherwise the two girls would have been in school. This begs the question often discussed here, was this a pre-planned meeting where the two girls thought they would be meeting someone else other than the killer, or was this a chance meeting? If it was a chance meeting for the two girls, was it also a chance meeting on behalf of the killer, or was he purposefully lying in wait for anyone who happened to show that afternoon and would kill them if the circumstance allowed it?

A decision making tree for each scenario could help keep information that is ambiguous in its meaning from clouding the larger discussion. If the information is just floating around clarity suffers.
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I truly don't think the School Holiday was related - at the time the attack happened they would have gotten home from school by then on a regular School day anyway.

It's just my opinion.
 
madduck74 said:
The more I think about it... I think it's very likely the suspect had this meticulously planned out. That bridge, and area in general, just seems too perfect for trapping someone and not being seen. If someone was looking for an ideal spot to commit a crime like this, that bridge is about as good as it gets.

It's very hard for me to believe he just stumbled into such a ideal location. That leads me to believe it's extremely likely he's very familiar with that area.
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It sounds like you're voting for "lying in wait with malice aforethought." At that point, anyone one who showed up could have been his victim, which would move him away from being a specific predator of young girls to another kind of killer.
 
mrtnira said:
Nin, I suspect the attack occurred on Monday afternoon because it was a school holiday. Otherwise the two girls would have been in school. This begs the question often discussed here, was this a pre-planned meeting where the two girls thought they would be meeting someone else other than the killer, or was this a chance meeting? If it was a chance meeting for the two girls, was it also a chance meeting on behalf of the killer, or was he purposefully lying in wait for anyone who happened to show that afternoon and would kill them if the circumstance allowed it?

A decision making tree for each scenario could help keep information that is ambiguous in its meaning from clouding the larger discussion. If the information is just floating around clarity suffers.
Click to expand...
A warm Monday afternoon near Winter's end is probably THE most likely time to find a woman hiking alone, with few witnesses around.

The primary motive may not have been murder, but happened because he decided to chance it with two younger victims, rather than with one older victim. In order to do something to one, he would need to immobilize the other.

Sexual assaults on trails are unfortunately, somewhat common. For example, in Bloomington, 2.5 hours away from Delphi, sexual assaults also happened on trails. See the attached article.

"Officers believe the man was hiding nearby and waited to attack until the trail was clear, which is common during the early afternoon when most people are at work."

http://fox59.com/2016/08/17/police-...cts-who-attacked-women-on-bloomington-trails/
 
Who knows...a perp who would do this may always carry whatever he needs to commit crimes and there the girls were...or he may have hoped to find an adult female on her own. Maybe he even thought the girls were adults until he got closer, and seeing they were young girls, decided to take his chance. Just no way of knowing. In thinking of Ted Bundy again (not that I am convinced this is a serial killer) he was always "prepared" to grab a woman. I am sure lots of people who have the idea to assault or murder are pretty much ready for any opportunity as it arises. Jmo
 
No it's not said:
The day before Valentine's Day, was it important to the killer and carefully chosen or was it coincidence and just another weekday? What do you guys think about it and why?

Consequently, why did the killer show up on a Monday afternoon? Monday - Afternoon. The trail does not seem to be that frequented in general. How much less on a Monday afternoon, or because it is less frequented on a Monday afternoon?

I like to hear your thoughts.

-Nin
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Before jumping into answers, I also have some questions in this realm. Is it possible that some witnesses may have seen BG on Sunday? Or even the week(s) before? Has LE ever given a breakdown on the days BG was seen?

This may have been just another weekday. Or BG had some kind of SM presence that involved the girls. Depending on the condition of the phone, along with any SM records, only LE can possibly answer that angle.

I keep wondering how many people received the snap chats on their trip to, and onto, the bridge? And has LE been able to track all those recipients down?

All MHO, or observations, or possibly repeated information, as always.
 
No it's not said:
The day before Valentine's Day, was it important to the killer and carefully chosen or was it coincidence and just another weekday? What do you guys think about it and why?

Consequently, why did the killer show up on a Monday afternoon? Monday - Afternoon. The trail does not seem to be that frequented in general. How much less on a Monday afternoon, or because it is less frequented on a Monday afternoon?

I like to hear your thoughts.

-Nin
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My working hypothesis is that the killer(s) had been out hunting for a victim or victim(s) during the two or possibly three days prior elsewhere. And for whatever reason(s) - lack of any victims, lack of victims of the right target type, bad approach visibility, too much visibility from elsewhere, access to areas passing known cameras or license plate readers, too many people around, potential victims walking or jogging in a group rather than lone or a pair, law enforcement presence in the area, etc. was unable to get an opportunity. So, it could very well be the case that the killer(s) chose to try the trails in Delphi as a third or lower choice in terms of location selection for victims and may have been on any of the other trails earlier in the day and may have gone to other trails in the Delphi system had the killer(s) come up empty at the bridge.

So the bottom line for me is that the girls ended up there at just the wrong time and crossed paths with the killer(s). I don't attach anything to Valentine's Day. Though, I have noted that there was a Purdue home men's basketball game scheduled on the 14th. And there may be other events in the area - especially Lafayette - that may have drawn the killer(s) to the area that particular weekend. As for it being Monday I don't think that mattered as much as it was February to begin with. So there likely would have always been a smaller pool of potential victims than at other times of the year. I have been looking at this as if Delphi, and the bridge area, was a case of one last place to try before packing it in and going home or wherever the killer(s) were staying.
 
cluciano63 said:
Who knows...a perp who would do this may always carry whatever he needs to commit crimes and there the girls were...or he may have hoped to find an adult female on her own. Maybe he even thought the girls were adults until he got closer, and seeing they were young girls, decided to take his chance. Just no way of knowing. In thinking of Ted Bundy again (not that I am convinced this is a serial killer) he was always "prepared" to grab a woman. I am sure lots of people who have the idea to assault or murder are pretty much ready for any opportunity as it arises. Jmo
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I think this could well be it.

I also think if they had digital contact with the murderer it'd be solved by now.

As for the drugs angle, it is extremely unlikely anyone would suggest the bridge as a rendezvous point for buying dope. People buy it at people's doorsteps, inside houses, at the mall, through car windows, school hallways, they don't make special dates to buy it at remote locations. And there would be a digital footprint of this plan.

To me all signs point to the girls being random victims, making this a very difficult case to solve even with footage and eye witnesses of the suspect. Maybe a painstaking search through the local phone towers will reveal someone in town who wasn't local that matches the description, but if the towers get traffic from nearby busy highways this could take so long. I know someone who was called 2 years after a massive investigation in QLD, Australia, because their phone pinged a nearby tower around the time in question. What painstaking work.
 
cluciano63 said:
Who knows...a perp who would do this may always carry whatever he needs to commit crimes and there the girls were...or he may have hoped to find an adult female on her own. Maybe he even thought the girls were adults until he got closer, and seeing they were young girls, decided to take his chance. Just no way of knowing. In thinking of Ted Bundy again (not that I am convinced this is a serial killer) he was always "prepared" to grab a woman. I am sure lots of people who have the idea to assault or murder are pretty much ready for any opportunity as it arises. Jmo
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This case in particular though, it begs the question, "Why was he there?".

Given the length of time that has gone by, it's likely the perp is not local. Why would a non-local be hiking in that area? He doesn't appear to be an avid hiker. He's not necessarily dressed like an avid hiker. He's not necessarily built like an avid hiker. Some have suggested hunting, but without a bow or rifle? Some have suggested harvesting, but without a bag or backpack?

Is it likely that this person would drive to Delphi to go for a nice hike on a Monday afternoon and just up and kill (or more) two girls on a whim?
 
No it's not said:
The day before Valentine's Day, was it important to the killer and carefully chosen or was it coincidence and just another weekday? What do you guys think about it and why?

Consequently, why did the killer show up on a Monday afternoon? Monday - Afternoon. The trail does not seem to be that frequented in general. How much less on a Monday afternoon, or because it is less frequented on a Monday afternoon?

I like to hear your thoughts.

-Nin
Click to expand...

Jumping off your post, in addition to the possibility of him knowing it was a school holiday (not convinced about that though moo), and him possibly being in the area for whatever reason (work, visiting someone, etc), maybe he (also) thought/knew many adults specifically would be at work on a Monday...which brings to mind children wouldn't be there unattended. And as mentioned, familiar with the area, and possibly scoped it out before...unless, he purposely chose a location completely random, unknown, spontaneous and unrelated to him in any way.

Eta: re Valentine's Day, I'm not sure that has any relation; however, I keep hearing Foxfire say "there's a reason for the seasons...".
 
No it's not said:
The day before Valentine's Day, was it important to the killer and carefully chosen or was it coincidence and just another weekday? What do you guys think about it and why?

Consequently, why did the killer show up on a Monday afternoon? Monday - Afternoon. The trail does not seem to be that frequented in general. How much less on a Monday afternoon, or because it is less frequented on a Monday afternoon?

I like to hear your thoughts.

-Nin
Click to expand...

If he had only a good reason to leave his home on a working day then he might have started his "venting tour" Monday morning (full of hate after the weekend) and maybe arrived in that area 1/2/3 hours later. My special personal POI for example would have arrived at Delphi 4.5 hours after starting at his home. The rest belongs to TOS.
 
rosesfromangels said:
Only LE knows if there was signature like aspects to the murders. To me, there are enough similarities to suggest the possibility of a SK. However, LE has stated this is not the case per my link upthread. It's still niggling at me.

Editing to add that the Southbend teen has been foumd safe. Thank god.
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Its possible the cases are connected and LE is keeping that info to themselves. We are not privy to everything. Dont forget that LE is allowed to lie.
 
No it's not said:
BBM

..and possibly lost the phone or Libby possibly dropped the phone.

ALL IMO

-Nin
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In the general area would include the phone was found in her pocket. Again, we are not privy to the info.
 
I wonder if BG was visiting the cemetary that day? Was he on his way out when he spotted two girls get out of a car and go off on their own? Is that possible?
Whats the lay of the land?
 
Probably nothing, but while looking for a spot where the suspect could have waited and watched the trail, I noticed near the parking/drop off area, there are a couple small structures or objects. Anyone know what these are?

988233a02fb8cce944597c60c29a1a20.jpg


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
 
deedee21 said:
I wonder if BG was visiting the cemetary that day? Was he on his way out when he spotted two girls get out of a car and go off on their own? Is that possible?
Whats the lay of the land?
Click to expand...

The lay of the land can be found in the media thread on page one.
Detailed maps and links to videos showing a recreation of the girls on the bridge.
 
deedee21 said:
I wonder if BG was visiting the cemetary that day? Was he on his way out when he spotted two girls get out of a car and go off on their own? Is that possible?
Whats the lay of the land?
Click to expand...

Here is the Case Map

I guess it's possible. I've circled the Cemetery and where the girls were dropped off

28178s9.jpg
 
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