IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #67

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The last interview I saw LE stated the phone was found "with the girls" so this is interesting to me. If you have a link please post. In the mean time I'll search for it. Tia.

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The news story by the same reporter that did the 27 minute interview said "with the girls". However, if you watch the full interview he actually says "in the general area" and doesn't say "with the girls" at all.
 
The Bike Path Rapist went under the radar for years, in fact LE tried decoys and whatnot, and he continued to slip under the radar.
I have never heard of this. I am curious as to how he was stopped.
 
The news story by the same reporter that did the 27 minute interview said "with the girls". However, if you watch the full interview he actually says "in the general area" and doesn't say "with the girls" at all.

ITA. In the transcription kindly done by Spellbound for that part of the interview http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Delphi-13-Feb-2017-65&p=13565740#post13565740
Alexis and Holeman say exactly this:
A: [24.16] Was her cell phone, I mean, are you surprised he didn't try to take cell phone or take any evidence with him?

H: Was I surprised that ....?

A: That he didn't try to take it? I mean, you would think that if that had had, maybe he didn't know that they were recording, but ...

H: Yeah.

A: Do you believe that?

H: You know, I don't know. Nothing surprises me any more after doing this job for awhile, but who knows what he was thinking or what he knew. You know, we don't know that.

A: But it was all pretty, like, you didn't have to go searching through the woods, all that stuff was kind of let in that area, right?

H: ahh, that's a fair statement, the general area
.

So here is the interview and the reporter's story
http://fox59.com/2017/08/14/lead-de...ave-more-audio-from-teens-phone-dna-evidence/
 
Youtube Delphi murders Full Interview with Sgt Holeman 8/14/17
 
What about the cemetery for drug deals? Easy to park at the back there unseen, no cctv, no passers by, can see approaching vehicles and people easily, remote and secluded. Would be ideal IMO.

I could see that. In Mississippi, a turn out on a rural road by a gas station of ill repute served as a convenient meeting place for low to mid level drug deals, negotiations and drop offs. The turn out then became the scene of a horrific murder.

Perhaps BG, or an associate then lured the victims from the more customary cemetery to the more secluded nature trail? The only thing that seems to detract from the arranged meeting scenario is that as one of the parties were teenagers, there would most likely be an intermediary of some sort. Yet, nobody has talked.
 
I could see that. In Mississippi, a turn out on a rural road by a gas station of ill repute served as a convenient meeting place for low to mid level drug deals, negotiations and drop offs. The turn out then became the scene of a horrific murder.

Perhaps BG, or an associate then lured the victims from the more customary cemetery to the more secluded nature trail? The only thing that seems to detract from the arranged meeting scenario is that as one of the parties were teenagers, there would most likely be an intermediary of some sort. Yet, nobody has talked.
And the Mears drop off area has since been closed due to goings on at all times of the night. I took that to mean drug deals or other nefarious goings on IMO. People involved in these type of illegal activities won't talk through fear. LE have admitted witnesses were scared. I think that's why noone has talked. AJMO.
 
And the Mears drop off area has since been closed due to goings on at all times of the night. I took that to mean drug deals or other nefarious goings on IMO. People involved in these type of illegal activities won't talk through fear. LE have admitted witnesses were scared. I think that's why noone has talked. AJMO.
I'm not sold on the drug dealing theory.

To me, it doesn't make sense to risk being seen committing murder in order to cover being seen doing a drug deal. Not only are you committing murder, you also have a package of drugs or drug money to flee with. High risk. Little or no gain. If you don't want to be seen THAT badly, why are you on a hiking trail?

It also doesn't make sense to meet in such an isolated area alone to make such a deal, or to hang around the isolated area after doing the deal. You can end up dead yourself and have your money or drugs taken by the people you just did the deal with.

Killing someone right in the area after doing the deal is also going to bring unwanted attention and likely cost you business with that partner in the future, if not your life.

It also doesn't appear the girls are heavy users or dealers, and it's unlikely a dealer would go that far out of the way to deliver a gram of pot, and then kill the girls for reasons unknown.

This was brazen, with the consequences being worth the risk. Unfortunately, when a female is accosted in the woods by a male perp seemingly at random, the motive is sexual in nature the majority of the time.
 
People have mentioned in several posts how the police have gone silent and that nothing new has been brought up to the public. I wonder if that is because the public may overwhelmed them with errant leads? Sgt. Jerry Holeman indicated this in his interview with Fox 59. He mentioned how social media was creating distractions, and that several people even reported Sgt. Holeman to the tip line because he seemed to have a lot of knowledge about the case...?

The sergeant's comments made me think that "crowd sourcing" may have worked against the case by creating too much distraction.
 
I'm not sold on the drug dealing theory.

To me, it doesn't make sense to risk being seen committing murder in order to cover being seen doing a drug deal. Not only are you committing murder, you also have a package of drugs or drug money to flee with. High risk. Little or no gain. If you don't want to be seen THAT badly, why are you on a hiking trail?

It also doesn't make sense to meet in such an isolated area alone to make such a deal, or to hang around the isolated area after doing the deal. You can end up dead yourself and have your money or drugs taken by the people you just did the deal with.

Killing someone right in the area after doing the deal is also going to bring unwanted attention and likely cost you business with that partner in the future, if not your life.

It also doesn't appear the girls are heavy users or dealers, and it's unlikely a dealer would go that far out of the way to deliver a gram of pot, and then kill the girls for reasons unknown.

This was brazen, with the consequences being worth the risk. Unfortunately, when a female is accosted in the woods by a male perp seemingly at random, the motive is sexual in nature the majority of the time.
I'm not convinced they were accosted or that the crime was sexually motivated necessarily either. I also don't think it was meticulously planned or organized and believe he bungled whatever he was there to achieve. And it was quick and he left quickly I think. I do believe they saw something they shouldn't have seen or got involved in something outside of their normal environment. You have partly answered that it is isolated and remote, he may not even have known the trail would be busier than normal that day. Something went wrong and resulted in the murders. What went wrong is what I don't have a clue about unfortunately.
 
I'm not convinced they were accosted or that the crime was sexually motivated necessarily either. I also don't think it was meticulously planned or organized and believe he bungled whatever he was there to achieve. And it was quick and he left quickly I think. I do believe they saw something they shouldn't have seen or got involved in something outside of their normal environment. You have partly answered that it is isolated and remote, he may not even have known the trail would be busier than normal that day. Something went wrong and resulted in the murders. What went wrong is what I don't have a clue about unfortunately.
I actually don't think it's that isolated. It's a hiking trail. It's close to a highway. In fact, it wasn't that isolated. The girls hiked there that day, and from all indications, other people hiked there that day.

My point was if the perp thinks it's isolated enough to commit murder, then if he were a drug dealer, he'd think it was isolated enough to be murdered himself for his money or drugs. Drug dealers are concerned for their own safety as well.

If the girls actually saw something, and then saw him following them, then it's more likely they would have the confidence and time to call someone. There is a difference between seeing someone do something and then they come after you, as opposed to the self doubt and laughing off your paranoia about being followed.

It doesn't make sense to go that far into the woods after them to cover up a minor crime, at the risk of being seen fleeing from a major crime like double murder. It also doesn't make sense to leave your cache of cash or drugs unattended to commit the murders.

Murders to cover up sexual assaults (rape) and to buy time to get away happen much more frequently than innocent bystanders stumbling onto a drug deal and then getting killed for it. Go to the shady part of any town and hang around for a while and you're likely to see some drug deals without even being hassled about it.

If the girls were killed because they were witnesses, then why weren't any other witnesses killed?

Although anything is possible, the odds are against the drug deal gone wrong theory.
 
I don't have time to re-watch the video, and I can't find all the transcripts, but does Holeman not say that the perp could do this again, and it could be someone's mother or daughter, or something along those lines?

If you want to play statement analysis, is that not a giveaway that being a female was what made them the victims of choice? As well, it hints the crime itself was what the perp was there to do, and will likely have the want/need to do it again...
 
The perp seemed, and to me, looked like he was on his own out there. Not involved in meth making etc...just patroling the area for possibilities.
 
I get what you're saying. I guess I could have been more clear about my thoughts when I wrote that he uses his "hobby" as an out. Again, it's anecdotal so may be a useless train of thought. In my life, I knew someone who seemed fairly normal in the beginning. Certain red flags about his behavior appeared as time went on. Though married with children, he was always sort of a loner but suddenly developed an obsession with fishing. He bought a boat, would spend hours alone fishing, etc. Later we found that the fishing was an excuse to be away from his family, to be "alone," to get up to the things that he was really interested in. Does that make some sort of sense as to where I was going with the railroad idea? I was thinking BG might often make excuses if he lives with someone for why he's gone on his "outings." If anyone were to say to him, "Hey, weren't you at the Monon High Bridge the last time we went to Delphi?" He might say, "Sure, I went but only to check out the old trestle." He might use his so-called hobby to normalize his behavior, which in fact includes stalking, rape, or more. This is all speculation, of course! Just another way of thinking about why a person who wanted to kill two girls would be in that place at that particular point in time.

Couldn't agree with you more! JMO
 
Who knows...a perp who would do this may always carry whatever he needs to commit crimes and there the girls were...or he may have hoped to find an adult female on her own. Maybe he even thought the girls were adults until he got closer, and seeing they were young girls, decided to take his chance. Just no way of knowing. In thinking of Ted Bundy again (not that I am convinced this is a serial killer) he was always "prepared" to grab a woman. I am sure lots of people who have the idea to assault or murder are pretty much ready for any opportunity as it arises. Jmo

trust me...this is a serial killer. IMO
 
I think this could well be it.

I also think if they had digital contact with the murderer it'd be solved by now.

As for the drugs angle, it is extremely unlikely anyone would suggest the bridge as a rendezvous point for buying dope. People buy it at people's doorsteps, inside houses, at the mall, through car windows, school hallways, they don't make special dates to buy it at remote locations. And there would be a digital footprint of this plan.

To me all signs point to the girls being random victims, making this a very difficult case to solve even with footage and eye witnesses of the suspect. Maybe a painstaking search through the local phone towers will reveal someone in town who wasn't local that matches the description, but if the towers get traffic from nearby busy highways this could take so long. I know someone who was called 2 years after a massive investigation in QLD, Australia, because their phone pinged a nearby tower around the time in question. What painstaking work.

but the girls are so young, they don't know better, this is the definition of vulnerability , i am sorry to say this but anything can be a lure for the young , innocent , inexperienced young girls....i cannot believe anyone who was around during the 60's and seventies doesn't agree with me 100% because young girls are people an they have free will and they run wild a little because its fun and they want to.

to just try and paint them as a frozen photo and say they were too innocent and victims etc...is to deny them their humanity and obstructs...it just obstructs the investigation because we have to look at the possibility that they went there to meet someone...we have to , regardless if they are children.

In my mind we owe them that . MOO
 
I don't have time to re-watch the video, and I can't find all the transcripts, but does Holeman not say that the perp could do this again, and it could be someone's mother or daughter, or something along those lines?

If you want to play statement analysis, is that not a giveaway that being a female was what made them the victims of choice? As well, it hints the crime itself was what the perp was there to do, and will likely have the want/need to do it again...

I think what the Sgt said (in the context of asking for people to come forward with info relating to the identity of BG) was that the perp could do it again, and the next time it could be your mother or sister, then in the very next sentence he qualified that by saying "or father or brother."

Not trying to argue with your point as I agree with most of your points that you post here. In my mind, women were the targets. I think that the Sgt realized two things after "mother or sister" came out. One, that he revealed maybe more than he planned, and two, that he needed to qualify how dangerous the perp is so that people wouldn't make excuses to not talk to LE if they really had a tip. JMO
 
I keep going back to who was picking them up that day. DG. That's all I will say - I don't want a TO.
 
I think what the Sgt said (in the context of asking for people to come forward with info relating to the identity of BG) was that the perp could do it again, and the next time it could be your mother or sister, then in the very next sentence he qualified that by saying "or father or brother."

Not trying to argue with your point as I agree with most of your points that you post here. In my mind, women were the targets. I think that the Sgt realized two things after "mother or sister" came out. One, that he revealed maybe more than he planned, and two, that he needed to qualify how dangerous the perp is so that people wouldn't make excuses to not talk to LE if they really had a tip. JMO
Every and any point I make is up for debate and can be proven wrong at any time. I don't consider it arguing.

I was relying on memory, and maybe should have waited to find the quote before posting that.

I'll have to watch the video again, as the transcript doesn't quite show the times he catches himself, and then qualifies or corrects himself. He seems to have a few 'Oops' moments during the interview.
 
Every and any point I make is up for debate and can be proven wrong at any time. I don't consider it arguing.

I was relying on memory, and maybe should have waited to find the quote before posting that.

I'll have to watch the video again, as the transcript doesn't quite show the times he catches himself, and then qualifies or corrects himself. He seems to have a few 'Oops' moments during the interview.

I thought the quote you were referring to was from the big presser of 2/22?
 
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