IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #7

[Teche]

Thanks for posting...we all needed to hear this today.

I've been on WS for a couple of years now, but very rarely post -- I usually feel like I don't really have anything to contribute, since someone else has almost always already made whatever point comes to my mind. But I feel compelled to post today, even though I have absolutely nothing to contribute toward solving this horrible crime. Seeing the girls' pictures from that day, hearing the perp on audio...it has disturbed me to the point of posting...and I've been disturbed by a lot of things on WS and in life, so that's saying something! I can't stop thinking about what else they probably have on video and/or audio, and it's breaking my heart. I am praying that their loved ones are comforted by the knowledge that the girls are beyond any fear or pain now. And God bless the LE who have to deal with the evil in the world on a daily basis.

The one other thing I will say, in contribution to the discussion, is that I have a teenage daughter who is a very smart, silly, nerd. She is an introvert, but confident in herself. And as much as I have taught her about what to do in a variety of situations, I still think it is very possible that she would comply with whatever this guy said to do. I can imagine countless things that he could have said or done, armed or not, that could have compelled young girls to obey. That being said, I do think it's highly likely that he was armed. I would be surprised if this was the first time he's done something like this, and I think that type of person is probably "ready" at all times. Have LE stated whether they think it was a chance encounter, or premeditated? I know people have discussed that on the threads, but I haven't seen whether LE has actually made a statement about that (I haven't watched the presser myself, yet) and these threads are flying -- hard to catch everything!

Prayers of comfort to all my fellow sleuthers, and for everyone affected by the evil of this case and others. When you see that people are on a thread, but not posting, just know they're probably like me -- nothing constructive to add, but reading, praying, and waiting to add to the conversation when we have something that might help, with a new thought.

 

[cattlekate]

Perspective is slightly off naturally, but the poi would be in this approximate location. I have not made any measurements yet, this is just an estimate of his dimensions:

-Nin

Source:
http://www.capitalbay.news/news/1120465-lonely-spot-where-murdered-teenage-girls-were-last-seen.html

These graphics are incredible, Nin. Please help me interpret - but are the graphics showing the perp at the other end of the bridge from where the girls were dropped off? Like the perp followed the girls a bit after they started crossing the bridge? And the photos are just before he came up to them, as they hung out at the end of the bridge, and then that's when he told them to get down the hill (embankment)?

What are your thoughts?

 

[No it's not]

Great images!

The girls' bodies were found NE of the bridge, correct? If the picture is of him is going SE, he would have had to lure, or force, them back north over the entire bridge?

This is a Carrol County Property Search map. The light yellow parcels belong to the owner, on whose property the bodies were located. I included the entire creek shore line to the S of his properties, since we do not know exactly, where the victims were located:

Source:
http://publicrecords.onlinesearches.com/view/slid/11484

 

[Mistree]

Whew, I'm caught up, this thread is moving very fast.
I watched the presser and am very humbled by LE emotional response. IMO, this case is VERY, VERY bad and I think we will all be brought to our knees when we know the details.
Of all the cases I have followed I have NEVER heard LE nor the local FBI refer to making the director of the FBI aware with status updates nor have I heard of the FBI profilers acting so quickly, Nor the level of equipment brought in (ie, that big satellite).
I am so thankful for all of the above and hope this is resolved soon. This piece of ---- is probably quite the sicko and IMO very dangerous.

 

[MountainMeg]

People should really chill for a second. The pettiness is overshadowing what all this is about. Not about what you do and dont see or bickering over theories...it's about the girls.

 

[aleighg]

So from the presser, I am just making assumptions, but it sounds like they do feel like there are more than one suspect.

Agreed--I found it interesting that in the press conference and in the initial release of the video still LE is keeping the possibility open that there are more than one person involved in the crime. I also think that walking two girls through the woods at gunpoint in the middle of the day--on a day when many people are also hiking/off from school-- is quite risky, even if it's off trail. The location of the bodies (just off of a road near a house) also makes me think that they were taken there by vehicle. Does anyone think it plausible the "down the hill" wasn't directed at the girls, but rather at an accomplice driving a car? It sounded muffled but his voice was close by. I also didn't hear the crunching of footsteps through the woods or any outdoor nature sounds. Not sure I'm completely committed to this line of thought but wanted to put it out there.

For what it's worth, too, for me his accent sounded just like the accents of the local LE.

 

[jkloc420]

This is a Carrol County Property Search map. The light yellow parcels belong to the owner, on whose property the bodies were located. I included the entire creek shore line to the S of his properties, since we do not know exactly, where the victims were located:

Source:
http://publicrecords.onlinesearches.com/view/slid/11484

depending how low the water is, he could of made them walk across

 

[wfsltt]

It would seem the trees are reflective ...

I've been back to this area...Can you link the photo for me to review?

 

[Tealgrove]

This thread is moving so fast it's hard to keep up.

All this is MOO.

If there are two people involved and the voice we hear doesn't belong to the BG it may be confusing to someone trying to put a voice to a face. In addition, his voice may be recognizable to a previous victim that wasn't murdered. It's a possibility.

Typically, it's the women in these perps lives that figure it out first. A wife or a girlfriend knows already that he's the guy.

I don't think this is his first rodeo but I do think it's going to be his last.

All LE, FBI included, seem shaken by this. I have a terrible feeling that a lot was captured on Libby's cell phone. I think LE knows exactly WHAT happened and now they just have to find him.

DNA? If they put a rush on any DNA found they would have results by now. I don't think this guy is in the database.

I wondered if the girls' took a photo of this guy and he freaked on them. A guy that has something to hide to begin with?

His voice seems to say that he is a local (that's what the majority of posters have posted). He has a rural Indiana accent. So we know he's from those parts but does he still live there?

I'm not sure whether SM was involved or not. I'm almost seeing this as opportunistic.

That's all I got.

 

[DavidC]

Agreed--I found it interesting that in the press conference and in the initial release of the video still LE is keeping the possibility open that there are more than one person involved in the crime. I also think that walking two girls through the woods at gunpoint in the middle of the day--on a day when many people are also hiking/off from school-- is quite risky, even if it's off trail. The location of the bodies (just off of a road near a house) also makes me think that they were taken there by vehicle. Does anyone think it plausible the "down the hill" wasn't directed at the girls, but rather at an accomplice driving a car? It sounded muffled but his voice was close by. I also didn't hear the crunching of footsteps through the woods or any outdoor nature sounds. Not sure I'm completely committed to this line of thought but wanted to put it out there.

For what it's worth, too, for me his accent sounded just like the accents of the local LE.

I could clearly hear the crunching of footsteps.

 

[galaxygal]

Since LE has specifically released these pics wanting to get the male in them ID'd...

Does whether or not there is a vehicle (or vehicles) as some are arguing down there help ID him?

Does whether or not he - or anyone else - is approaching from the end of the bridge where the ISP Sgt has said it's posts help ID him or change anything?

LE surely has at least some additional frames before and after what we've seen and would know if he's coming from behind - and surely knows if there's a car or cars down there as some believe they see.

Does any of that impact what LE is asking for assistance with and that's IDing the male in the image? :thinking:

If there is a vehicle, and the type can be made out, I don't see that as anything but helpful in helping ID him.

 

[Trox]

Flush that one down the loo. Being cheeky, right mate?

Just an observation [emoji848]


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[jillycat]

Whew, I'm caught up, this thread is moving very fast.
I watched the presser and am very humbled by LE emotional response. IMO, this case is VERY, VERY bad and I think we will all be brought to our knees when we know the details.
Of all the cases I have followed I have NEVER heard LE nor the local FBI refer to making the director of the FBI aware with status updates nor have I heard of the FBI profilers acting so quickly, Nor the level of equipment brought in (ie, that big satellite).
I am so thankful for all of the above and hope this is resolved soon. This piece of ---- is probably quite the sicko and IMO very dangerous.

Agree.

 

[deugirtni]

Some points..

The presser did NOT say they "recovered" Libbey's phone. They said the images are from her phone. Libbey was a normal teenage, tech savvy girl I imagine and I'm sure her phone was linked up, meaning everything on her phone went to the cloud. The police may have very well downloaded all this off the cloud. Perhaps her phone is still missing? I find it so odd that the perp wouldn't have taken their phones. Even if he destroyed them, everything she did would still be on the cloud and downloadable.

It was also my impression that the still we have of him is actually not a snap photo, but that LE turned it into a still from a video? Did anyone else get that impression?

I'm a bit surprised the phones were not activated with GPS.

I wanted to address the "pings" around town. I learned this when we were looking for Sierah.

"Pinging" is different that GPS mode. When Ce went missing, her phone was pinging in the area it was found, where she was kidnapped. You are able to see a tower from where she was taken. There's also 2 other towers. The "pinging" was bouncing between all 3 of these towers and was "accurate" withing a 10 miles radius. Her killers phone also "pinged" from the place where he took her and then continued to ping off the same tower for over 2 hours, leading some to speculate that he remained in the field with her for 2 hours. This is not necessarily so and unlikely to boot. It was explained that he could have taken her back to his barn (5 miles away) and his phone would still be pinging off a tower close to where she was kidnapped as it "bounces around". Remember, it had a 10 mile radius window.

If Sierah or the girls would have had a GPS app running on their phone, that history would show exactly where that phone was at...within 25 feet most times, not just what tower it was pinging. If someone had a GPS app running, and they actually were still in possession of their phone when they were taken, it would show exactly where they went..down to the address of the house. If someone had that app running, LE or family would be able to login to their cell accounts/or GPS app and find the exact location of the phone.

EVERYONE should have a GPS on their phones, constantly running in the background. People don't like to because it's a drain on the battery. It would SAVE LIVES. It would not have saved Sierah because her phone was left in the field. IPHONES have the where's my IPHONE app that should be activated and ON all the time so your parents/spouse, whoever you give your login info too..can hit that program and see exactly where the phone is at.

If that still pic of the perp is from a video she was taking, I wish they would release a few seconds so people could see his gait. A walk is very distinctive.

To me, from Ohio, his accent or lack thereof sounds like a Northwest Ohio one also. Not Southern Ohio, but it sounds like everyone talks here.

There may be something distinctive about the perp's gait, which they want to hold back so that if they get a caller saying they ID'd the perp, they can ask about that. There is plenty enough detail of the perp in that photograph that someone will recognize it, in fact probably many might recognize it (could be close enough looking to a few individuals, not just the one perp). They don't need to release the gait of the person to get someone to ID this, they just need that person to actually DO it. There are a lot of people who don't watch the news or read the papers, this photo needs to get out everywhere to be seen by everyone, sometimes it takes time for that to reach that right person.

You are correct in saying that police did not officially say they recovered the phone, they may or may not have the actual phone... however, they are certainly alluding to that they have the phone in their possession, which could be killing the perp, thinking about that possibility. In thinking about how the perp could have missed confiscating the phone, it is possible that Libby may have ditched it at some point, without the perp knowing about it. It's also possible that the perp thought there was nothing on the phone that would give away anything about himself, so why take it, since it could then possibly be tracked to wherever he went. A reporter near the end of the PC said something about police having Libby's phone, and police did not correct that impression, if it was wrong. If they do or if they don't, they do want the perp to believe they have it. I really hope they have it.

 

[ImMimis]

This isnt the only time one perpetrator was able to control two victims to abduct, rape and then kill them. Killers like this control by fear and intimidation. The girls had never run across anyone like this man.

All he had to do is grab one around the throat and tell the other one if she didn't do exactly as he said to do... he would kill the one he grabbed. These girls were the best of friends who loved each other deeply. They would do anything if they thought it would save each others life and sometimes tragically it means the victim/s complied to the demands of a person filled with evil who would murder both of them while taking advantage of that strong bond between both victims.

No matter what weapon he used whether it was brute force and intimidation or gun/knife he still could have managed to control two close friends who would do anything trying to save their other friend's life.

We have seen cases where it has happened to grown adult women. Richard Speck all by himself was able to contain and murder 8 nurses and he only had a knife. They were all trying to do what he demanded thinking he would spare them if they did..... not knowing they played right into his hands.

These precious girls were trying to do everything possible to save each other but like so many of these cases the murderers are sociopaths with no compassion whatsoever and they actually get a sick satisfaction from the victims complying to their demands because they are so intimidated and fearful of the murderer.

IMO

So do you think this perp might be in a type of submission relationship with someone and hate it....maybe with a very dominating partner...so he takes control of someone he CAN control? That's the feeling I am getting. Either that or very dominating himself but can't find anyone to put up with him?

 

[0101ABA]

This thread is NOT the place for a right fight. It is a place where we, as adults, can civilly discuss and propose different scenarios about what happened to these 2 beautiful girls. It is about brainstorming, sleuthing, and hopefully, in some small way, contributing to the the greater good. This thread is not about you, it's not about me, & it's not about our fellow posters. It's about Abby and Libby and justice for them.

I fully admit, I was wrong. I thought the image of the suspect came from a trail cam. Maybe I theorized correctly about some other aspect of the case so far...or maybe not. Does the fact I was wrong about one thing make my thoughts and opinions any less valuable than someone else's? I'd like to think not.

I understand & appreciate that emotions are raw, but please scroll & roll if you are having a hard time reading about a certain topic of discussion or line of thought. If you see a post that concerns you or violates our TOS, use the alert feature and let a moderator handle it. Do not quote it or respond to it.

One last thought, if I may: Please remember to take care of YOURSELVES. Step away...take a break if need be. We'll be here when you are ready to come back.

 

[Gardenista]

Hey, these page after page steps are driving me batty. Is there any way in the settings to make all the posts show up on one page?

I have mine set for 100 posts per page. You can find it in settings.

 

[Eastonwatson]

Maybe I've been silenced because I stayed up deciphering the pics and feel very passionate and that people weren't listening because they didn't understand.

My whole thought process turns out diff and goes a diff direction if the perp is anywhere else on this bridge width wise Or if the camera angle is opposite.

Like if he's in the middle or more towards the camera side he means business. But by positioning one's self like he is scooting over to pass by hands in pockets that he's trying to seem like by all means he's just going to pass by.

Anyone think like this?

 

[Inthedetails]

This thread is moving so fast it's hard to keep up.

All this is MOO.

If there are two people involved and the voice we hear doesn't belong to the BG it may be confusing to someone trying to put a voice to a face.

Snipped by me.

Very good point!

I myself have already forgotten the possibility that the voice is of someone else. We do need to keep that in mind.

If there were two, however, I do think they are both local to the general area (and I continue to be amazed they have not been identified. Really, I am amazed!).

jmopinion

 

[ninij9]

I am trying so hard to keep up! Wow this is moving so fast...which is not shocking and great this case is so high profile! This sicko is a monster! I have listened to the recording over and over. I have to go by what LE said what the suspect said, "down the hill" considering they obviously have the rest of the audio (I do hear "git" or "go" if I listen for it). I find it so creepy. The suspect sounds very confident and controlling. He doesn't sound winded at all to me nor nervous. I honestly think it's likely he had a gun, or a knife. I don't think it would be difficult at all for one person to pull off this horrendous crime. Think about how many couples have been taken to another location and murdered by one perp.

This reminds me so much of the BTK call that I listened to over and over for years. This recording was from 1977. Granted it was not plastered all over the internet back then (however, it was posted online long before his arrest), but it was on the news. His wife didn't even recognize his voice (she was following the case closely and told her husband she was scared of BTK aka her husband!) nor did anyone else. If they did, they thought surely it couldn't be Dennis Rader. He wasn't arrested till 1995 after making mistakes himself. He thought he could play cat/mouse with the police which he did for years. Not to get off topic but here's his call. You'd think SURELY someone would recognize a voice!!!! The mere thought of what these girls went through is haunting. I can only imagine the audio Liberty captured in its entirely. So terrifying...no wonder the presser was so emotional. They've heard the audio!
[video=youtube;jWdu7yNX5K8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWdu7yNX5K8[/video]

This. Horrible. Man. Gave me nightmares for years. And watching him on court TV insisting on divulging every single detail so that he could relive his evil deeds in front of the families of the victims. And his recreation photos where he dressed as his own victims? Puke. Gag. Vomit. Puke again. He is in my top three most *advertiser censored*ed up people in history.


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