IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #70

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When this case first broke, I saw an MSM article that the train in Delphi had been held up and blocking the town for over an hour the am after the girls were missing. A few days later, I tried to find the article, and could not.

It's taught me a lesson on cases to post a link AND state what is important in the link (if I am on computer, as hard to do if on my old phone) AND state what time the MSM article was posted. I do that to this day on cases I follow because of my miss on this case that made me :pullhair:

fwiw

:dunno:

Morning :coffee: ,

Catching up, but wanted to mark this. If this has not already been located, note for us to try to help find it.
 
Yes, they certainly have, and it will pay off at trial. Speaking of which, I hope it's a closed trial. I would like to see the families spared the ordeal of all the gruesome details being shared with the general public. We know it was a horrible death for these children. The details should be shared behind closed doors IMO. Perhaps not a popular opinion, but it seems to keep a shred of dignity in tact.
Oh I'm sure everything will be sealed up,tight lipped,gag ordered,suppressed,undisclosed location of trial and everything still stuck inside that vest.
 
A few more details for the travels of DN.
Graduated from Chesnee HS in SC 2003
Checked in as RSO in Spartanburg County until 2012. This is where Chesnee is located.
(source for above notes: https://rccatalyst.com/index.php/20...uate-being-investigated-for-multiple-murders/ )
Grandma indicated she had not heard from him for 5 years, ever since she asked them to move off her property. 5 years ago is 2012. http://gazette.com/wife-grandmother...rman-hatchet-threats-speak-up/article/1612025
SC RSO database indicates conviction was June 2007. http://scor.sled.sc.gov/OffenderDetails.aspx?Display=Main&Id=1373981
Spartanburg County indicates DN moved to Florida in 2012. http://www.foxcarolina.com/story/36...tate-questioned-in-slaying-of-2-indiana-teens
Checked in with Florida August, 2012. http://offender.fdle.state.fl.us/offender/flyer.do?personId=80306

Thank you, that's very interesting.
 
I have no doubt this is the guy and will never walk free again, that's at the least.
Possession of the 22 rifle, the photos passing the search party, the threatening of cyclists..
that to me spells 'conviction' for the murder of the cyclist.
Now for a DP trial for abby and libby.. I want the audio recording to match and hopefully something more than a fuzzy video.
Like something in the car connecting him to the crime scene..
if I was on the jury all the prosecutor would have to do is point his finger and I would render my verdict ..Guilty!
I do recall in the zimmerman trial when they were trying to decide who was yelling for help, the audio voice analysts were disqualified from testifying. Something about the science being too new iirc.
 
What are the chances of this Perp being responsible for more than the attacks in CO and Indy? Pure speculation, I would say certainly worth further exploration. He seems to have a prolific (known) record of repeated offenses. I will not be shocked if we learn he is connected to other high profile murder cases; Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins come to mind. Pure speculation.
 
This is a modern military one, not sure if the Marines use it.

8dZkM.jpg






I wonder if his hatchet was passed down from a family member? I keep going back to farming and construction tools, though, stuff he could have grabbed on the many jobs he's had.

His grandfather maybe? His SM profile references his love for his grandfather and. 'the only dad he ever knew'. Wish we knew more about his grandfather, likely played a significant role in shaping him! Doesn't seem he and grandma saw eye to eye!
 
His 5X arrest of public masturbation proves he is an exhibitionist. He has recurrent, intense sexual "needs" which are illegal. He meets his sexual "needs" by exposing himself while masturbating. He had to travel outside his home area to meet his sexual "needs", so he wouldn't be easily identified and arrested AGAIN. He likely has other paraphilias in addition to exhibitionism.

Ugh, staring at this post (dear Lord how much brain and eye bleach is it going to take... And I haven't even zoomed in on his rear yet to look at the possible dip can :(, anyway, I'm thinking about the obvious, "did exhibitionism no longer cut it (as much) and this need progressed/escalated to possible rape and murder" (if not concurrently already present), but secondly, if he's an exhibitionist, well, um I hate to type this so much, he very well may have maaade one girl watch while he assaulted/murdered the other. After all that's what he seems to be into, being seen. And repulsing others. :puke:

Additionally, maybe he even took pictures himself of them. Which asks the question, if one is an exhibitionist, can he also be a voyeur, meaning he too likes to watch, or is more (metaphorically) like a previous analogy (unrelated to this) that someone posted about being the one to either hunt or be hunted.

Again, please pass the brain bleach.

Soo sorry Abby and Libby...Fly high girls.
 
His grandfather maybe? His SM profile references his love for his grandfather and. 'the only dad he ever knew'. Wish we knew more about his grandfather, likely played a significant role in shaping him! Doesn't seem he and grandma saw eye to eye!

I am thinking along the same lines as you. This hatchet has a special significance for him. I picture it with a wooden handle more of a traditional look. I think he may have inherited it or been given it as a gift. I see it as almost a security blanket for him, and the thing that gives him power and control over a life where he feels he's been dealt a raw deal. It's his equalizer, it makes everything all right when nothing in his life is. It is his prized possession, and I imagine that he is very distraught that it is gone.
 
I have no idea what his actual MOS was but he seems to have been in the Marine Assault Regiment. The six months lapse from Jan. 2004 to June 2005 could have been a six months deployment or it could have been because he remained at the 2004 battery station for six months. There are so many MOSs within one regiment/division/unit. He could have been a mechanic working on tanks or in a combat position or some other position needed within the 2ndMAR.

When Marines enlist they usually sign up for a four or six year contract. Since this shows him being back in Parris Island in 2007 as his last known whereabouts while in service he was most likely held, processed out, and dishonorably discharged from there.
<SNIP>.
BBM

This probably makes no difference in the greater scheme of things, but it'll help clarify things in my mind. Is that a math error or just a typo? From January 2004 to June 2005 it would be 17 months. Living up to my name, I'm confused. TIA for any clarification.
 
I haven't read here is a few days so forgive me for asking but . . .

How is it that this DN person is in any way connected to the Delphi girls?

Was he living near Delphi in February 2017?

Was he on parole in IN in February 2017? I read about him checking in with his PO in person but don't know the state that had him on parole.

I see an article from 8/17 about the BG's DNA. Does LE have it or not?

What am I missing and how is a guy who shot someone to death in CO now a person being connected to Delphi?
 
Not only that, but several of his addresses overlapped.

Yes, these public address records aren't an exact science. Just compiled from public records which have ever listed an address for a particular date, even if said person no longer lives there. For example, when a grown adult lists his parental home address as their address because they are in the process of moving (esp true of military people).

Woodland Park police stopped a red Chevy Prizm with expired Indiana plates Monday afternoon*because it matched an intimidation case there. In that case, a man and woman in a red car*threatened another motorist with a hatchet, according to a probable cause affidavit provided to the Journal & Courier by the Colorado Springs Gazette.

A man & woman??? I was thinking it was just him based off of other news reports. So she was there for the threats with the hatchet. That's some scary you know what.

This may be old news here and I just missed it BUT it's new news to me. So linking just in case.

http://www.jconline.com/story/news/...-suspect-indiana-no-stranger-crime/713951001/

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She was the one driving the car, according to at least one source I read. So it's conceivable a victim might have said both "a man and a woman threatened" him/her if she were driving in such a way as to allow DN to 'menace' the victim with the hatchet. (It seems logical to assume in this scenario that only one person would be actually wielding the weapon, though.)

I am somewhat confused. It states they visited him back on July 18, 2017. Didn't his wife put up on her FB page they were moving in May? So they were still in IN and hadnt gone to CO yet? Does this correspond with the time the sketch was putout?

tia

Sgt Pfifer and another detective went to his supposed residence (InTowne Suites motel in Greenwood, Johnson Co., IN) on July 18, but did not 'visit' DN, as he and his wife left the motel for good May 12, moving to CO (all per Sgt Pfifer's affidavit).

The sketch was put out July 17--the day before Sgt P went to the motel and (finally) confirmed with the mgr (July 18) that DN & KN had left. But it must be emphasized, LE did not go to the motel looking for him July 18 because of that sketch. Sgt P's repeated attempts to contact DN from mid-April on were simply due to the fact that DN was an IN RSO without a permanent address. DM had been evicted by his Wayne Twp landlord in Dec 2016, and so reported at check-in Jan 2017 that he was "homeless." So by law, DN needed to check in weekly, in person, signing his name to a form confirming his current impermanent address. DN started his "homeless 2017" at the Royal Inn in Indianapolis (Marion Co), never missed his weekly check-ins, and on April 12, showed up again in person and changed his still-impermanent address to the Intowne Suites motel in Greenwood (Johnson Co), IN. As a RSO without permanent address, he was then still required to keep showing up in person weekly confirming his current residence, but failed to do so, setting in motion the need for those keeping track of his whereabouts to track him down.

Sgt Pfifer was the one apparently assigned to be in charge of that; after repeated attempts by him to confirm DN's living at the Intowne Suites failed, he "opened up his investigation on July 18" of DN--but this investigation was only as pertaining to DN's failure to register his current address. (This is clear in reading the affidavit.) Sgt P's investigation was opened because the motel owner finally verified to him on July 18 that they'd skipped out; his investigation had nothing to do with Sgt P seeing the suspect sketch from the day before, nor with LE getting any citizen tips that DN might be involved with the Delphi murders. By July 19 there was a warrant out for DN from Johnson Co for these two items: 1. Failure to register current address, and 2. Failure to appear - (for a July 19 court date in Greenwood he skipped out on - see wlfi.com).
 
Morning :coffee: ,

Catching up, but wanted to mark this. If this has not already been located, note for us to try to help find it.
Could this be it? It's the only thing I could find. Dated Feb 15, 2017

Tuesday afternoon, after the girls’ bodies were found 50 to 60 feet from the bank of Deer Creek, about a half-mile east of Freedom Bridge and the Hoosier Heartland Highway, Sal Forner parked at a set of barricades blocking Old State Road 25 just off East Main Street. He’d come from Logansport, 20 miles to the northeast, to take the Monon High Bridge Trail.

He hadn’t been following the news that afternoon. When he heard why he couldn’t get*to the bridge, he shook his head.

http://www.jconline.com/story/opini...tlight-delphi-trail-after-homicides/97953648/

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I am thinking along the same lines as you. This hatchet has a special significance for him. I picture it with a wooden handle more of a traditional look. I think he may have inherited it or been given it as a gift. I see it as almost a security blanket for him, and the thing that gives him power and control over a life where he feels he's been dealt a raw deal. It's his equalizer, it makes everything all right when nothing in his life is. It is his prized possession, and I imagine that he is very distraught that it is gone.

I guess I see the crime differently, and I could be completely off base, but my feeling is IF he killed Abby and Libby it was primarily motivated by anger. Anger toward women/ girls, and misplaced, because he was royally ticked off at his wife who had just kicked him out. She was very pregnant and with his prior D/V conviction if she went missing, he would be rounded up immediately. He likely blamed her for being homeless and he lashed out violently when the "easiest" opportunity presented itself. Although there may have been a sexual component, I think rage was the primary motivator. Also, without getting too graphic, I do not believe he had the chance to sexually assault both Abby and Libby, the timeline was too tight... It was at least 2:30 ( at the earliest) whenhe had them at the crime scene and it was only an hour later that their relatives had hit the trail looking for them. MOO.
 
His grandfather maybe? His SM profile references his love for his grandfather and. 'the only dad he ever knew'. Wish we knew more about his grandfather, likely played a significant role in shaping him! Doesn't seem he and grandma saw eye to eye!

Re: shaping him, there other 2 people, males, that have major major history of sexual offenses, on minors. Going to the flag this post immediately for a mod because I'm not sure it's legal. If so, I'm soo please sorry delete! Flagging flagging. Probably will go poof.

:gomods:
 
I haven't read here is a few days so forgive me for asking but . . .

How is it that this DN person is in any way connected to the Delphi girls?

Was he living near Delphi in February 2017?

Was he on parole in IN in February 2017? I read about him checking in with his PO in person but don't know the state that had him on parole.

I see an article from 8/17 about the BG's DNA. Does LE have it or not?

What am I missing and how is a guy who shot someone to death in CO now a person being connected to Delphi?

I'll try to answer some of your questions. (BTW, I'm one of the (apparent) few still on the fence as to DN being BG.)

He was on parole in Indiana at the time. Apparently living in someone's car, under a bridge, approximately 2 hours from Delphi.

He reported as required on Feb 14, the day after the murders.

BTW, I don't think he's been charged with the Colorado murder yet.

The connection seems to be he was in Indiana, has a record and many people believe he looks like Bridge Guy.

moo, of course
 
Could this be it? It's the only thing I could find. Dated Feb 15, 2017

Tuesday afternoon, after the girls&#8217; bodies were found 50 to 60 feet from the bank of Deer Creek, about a half-mile east of Freedom Bridge and the Hoosier Heartland Highway, Sal Forner parked at a set of barricades blocking Old State Road 25 just off East Main Street. He&#8217;d come from Logansport, 20 miles to the northeast, to take the Monon High Bridge Trail.

He hadn&#8217;t been following the news that afternoon. When he heard why he couldn&#8217;t get*to the bridge, he shook his head.

http://www.jconline.com/story/opini...tlight-delphi-trail-after-homicides/97953648/

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Thank you sunsetbeach, good team work, marking to take a look after I catch up! Looks good upon an initial cursory glance!
 
Did we know there was more audio from Libby's phone played for the families? And in the recording the girls talk about a man behind them.


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Repeat post from months ago, what was his choice of restraints if any? My guess is rope. Other possibilities duct tape and zip ties, oh wait a minute, cuffs. I bet that dirt bag had handcuffs. I have always seen the white as sticking out of his jacket as rope, moo (posted some image samples way back).
 
Did we know there was more audio from Libby's phone played for the families? And in the recording the girls talk about a man behind them.


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Yes there was a recent interview where it was said the girls were talking about stuff girls talk about, etc etc its all upstream...short answer is a very definitive yes, that interview has been posted so we did know this, lol (I love the language, did we know this).

Eta: without sounding cocky, if it's out there, we know about it. We have been following facts since day 1 and probably anything that has been released by LE we know about. No rumors are allowed here and the mods run a very tight ship. Also, this is a very popular thread here with many followers so if anything is released officially someone is usually on it.
 
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