IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #72

[Deleted member 155000]

She may just be under-educated and unsure about what she should say to reporters. Part of her is worried about clearing her name, but perhaps she is also worried about her husband seeking revenge for anything she says. Then she may also be concerned she will make police angry. Given everything she has been through, I don’t think we can expect her to respond like a professional who is in a fully well state of mind. Most people in her circumstances, after losing custody of children and having husband jailed, are operating from a place of grief and desperation. They aren’t consulting lawyers or PR agencies and just giving logical, well thought out statements. They are doing the best they can, shooting from the hip, with the resources they have. I think she is vulnerable and is questioning the way she saw things in the past and that is what makes the interview seem so circular.

 

[rosesfromangels]

She may just be under-educated and unsure about what she should say to reporters. Part of her is worried about clearing her name, but perhaps she is also worried about her husband seeking revenge for anything she says. Then she may also be concerned she will make police angry. Given everything she has been through, I don’t think we can expect her to respond like a professional who is in a fully well state of mind. Most people in her circumstances, after losing custody of children and having husband jailed, are operating from a place of grief and desperation. They aren’t consulting lawyers or PR agencies and just giving logical, well thought out statements. They are doing the best they can, shooting from the hip, with the resources they have. I think she is vulnerable and is questioning the way she saw things in the past and that is what makes the interview seem so circular.

I agree. The fact she was still attached to this miscreant speaks volumes. It says she isn't operating with normal cognitive abilities, or is just horribly abused and paralyzed. Maybe both. I need more info on this gal to have a more clearly formed opinion.

Amateur opinion and speculation only.

 

[suspicious]

This whole situation is just a nightmare. Two beautiful innocent young girls taken away.

And these two adults who are parents living a life so awful. DN is not the smartest tool in the shed, he is reactive and immature. He must have had an extremely terrible childhood. His brother was homeless and murdered. I'm in Australia and I believe more needs to be done to intercept these adults while still kids. This is where change needs to occur. Just so sad. I pray for DN & KN children, that they get love and support so they can have a brighter future and not so much violence.

My gut is telling me that DN is involved, however for some reason the photo of BG looks older to me, like 45-55.

Moo



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[kizzykat]

jconline now carrying the latest interview:
http://www.jconline.com/story/news/...-nations-involved-delphi-homicides/788115001/

 

[rosesfromangels]

This whole situation is just a nightmare. Two beautiful innocent young girls taken away.

And these two adults who are parents living a life so awful. DN is not the smartest tool in the shed, he is reactive and immature. He must have had an extremely terrible childhood. His brother was homeless and murdered. I'm in Australia and I believe more needs to be done to intercept these adults while still kids. This is where change needs to occur. Just so sad. I pray for DN & KN children, that they get love and support so they can have a brighter future and not so much violence.

My gut is telling me that DN is involved, however for some reason the photo of BG looks older to me, like 45-55.

Moo



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Thought provoking post Suspicious. This is the age old debate of how much criminal behavior is rooted in genetics vs. environmental. There are strong arguments on both sides, but I'm in the camp that believes it's "wire in the blood". As to your suggestion that we, as a society has to intervene to rescue these kids earlier in life...I think it was a lot easier when people grew up in a "village" and everyone knew everyone. More accountability, and relatives or townsfolk would step in to moderate.

However, we can all make a difference. I was blessed to grow up in a home where all the neighborhood kids loved to hang out. My Mom "adopted" them all, cooking for them and listening to them endlessly and dispensing common sense and encouragement. She just brought out the best in everyone her life touched. They never wanted to disappoint her. In her lifetime she never cured cancer, but I know she impacted the lives of a lot of kids in a very positive way. So yes, we can all make a difference. Sometimes a kid just needs someone to listen to them, and to know that they count...they matter.

 

[ezrah]

MOOLiberty German and Abigail Williams had good lives and much to offer in the future. They went out to enjoy nature together on a mild February day. They encountered a monster who snuffed out their young lives. Their families, friends, community have been traumatized and forever changed. It is yet to be known if DN/KN will be proven to be involved but we do know DN has been proven to be a person who has violent tendencies,crosses personal boundaries and is a pervert. If proven he/she is involved with the murders I doubt their families will have much sympathy for their killers past nor will I. JMHO


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[Shiressleuth]

She may just be under-educated and unsure about what she should say to reporters. Part of her is worried about clearing her name, but perhaps she is also worried about her husband seeking revenge for anything she says. Then she may also be concerned she will make police angry. Given everything she has been through, I don’t think we can expect her to respond like a professional who is in a fully well state of mind. Most people in her circumstances, after losing custody of children and having husband jailed, are operating from a place of grief and desperation. They aren’t consulting lawyers or PR agencies and just giving logical, well thought out statements. They are doing the best they can, shooting from the hip, with the resources they have. I think she is vulnerable and is questioning the way she saw things in the past and that is what makes the interview seem so circular.

I'm sure that's all true but MSM know the deal and I'm sure they wouldn't put the interview out without LE vetting it first to make sure it is not jeopardising the cases. He's been charged so it is a fine line for MSM commenting on an alleged offender. I've never seen it before. Maybe if she doesn't mention the current charges she is ok. MOO.

 

[kizzykat]

And another piece that doesn't quite fit the puzzle. Per the interview, DN wanted to go to Colorado, he wanted answers about his brother, they left in May. He wanted answers, Katelyn said. They didn't know Lyles' attacker, Matthew Stroker, 35, already had pleaded guilty to kicking Lyles in the head with steel-toed boots and had been sentenced to 16 years in prison.

It's not accurate that they "didn't know" before they left Indiana in May that the guy had already plead guilty and been sentenced. They could not have known that in May because it didn't happen till 4 months later in September. (And coincidentally the same day TW disappeared.)
Multiple sources below:

Posted: Thu 4:59 PM, Sep 14, 2017
Matthew Allen Stroker pleaded guilty Thursday to reckless manslaughter and second-degree assault in the January death of 39-year-old Edward Lyles. Stroker was immediately sentenced after entering the guilty plea.
<BBM>
http://www.kktv.com/content/news/Ma...er-assault-in-Colorado-Springs-410337155.html

Published: September 14, 2017
A Colorado Springs homeless man pleaded guilty Thursday to killing a friend with a series of kicks to the head from his steel-toed boots - part of what prosecutors called an unprovoked attack sparked by too much alcohol...
Matthew Allan Stroker, 35, will serve 16 years in prison as part of a plea bargain in the January attack on 39-year-old Edward Eugene Lyles.
http://coloradosprings.com/colorado...th-of-friend-in-homeless-camp/article/1611188

The couple had been living in a motel in Greenwood, Ind., where records show Daniel was regularly complying with his sex offender registry check-ins, when he learned in May that his only brother, Edward Lyles, 39, was killed in Colorado Springs five months earlier. Lyles died in January following a brutal assault...Lyles was the only family Daniel had left, save for his wife, their two children and his grandmother, whom he hadn't seen or spoken to in years. He wanted answers, Katelyn said. They didn't know Lyles' attacker, Matthew Stroker, 35, already had pleaded guilty to kicking Lyles in the head with steel-toed boots and had been sentenced to 16 years in prison...
Daniel was so adamant about coming to Colorado that he packed up the family less than two weeks later and started driving them west, Katelyn said. Court records note Daniel's failure to register and show he left the hotel on May 12.
<BBM>
http://www.jconline.com/story/news/...-nations-involved-delphi-homicides/788115001/

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

From the recent KN article. “She's also not sure Daniel ever had access to her .22 caliber rifle, which she kept locked in the trunk of the car”.

The lock is a rope holding the trunk down.


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She lied about the locked car trunk to help DN, so it's likely there are many lies in her interview to help DN.

I hope LE questioned her on where DN threw out his clothes. They might be laying along a roadside where LE could find and test them.

 

[Scarlett12]

But temp tags are only good for 45 days. According to posters up-thread, the plate on the Prizm in the pictures is a regular metal plate not a temp. So if they had a temp plate in Feb and then got a permanent one, it would not be expired by September.

JMO

No, the last name is a N. ANY tags expire in August.. no matter when you get them.

I got a new car in April. I had to renew my brand new tags in July for my August expiration.. or I could pay for 16 months .


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[Boxer]

She may just be under-educated and unsure about what she should say to reporters. Part of her is worried about clearing her name, but perhaps she is also worried about her husband seeking revenge for anything she says. Then she may also be concerned she will make police angry. Given everything she has been through, I don&#8217;t think we can expect her to respond like a professional who is in a fully well state of mind. Most people in her circumstances, after losing custody of children and having husband jailed, are operating from a place of grief and desperation. They aren&#8217;t consulting lawyers or PR agencies and just giving logical, well thought out statements. They are doing the best they can, shooting from the hip, with the resources they have. I think she is vulnerable and is questioning the way she saw things in the past and that is what makes the interview seem so circular.

I agree with this. She wanted a divorce and stated she was fearful at that time.
She has no protection and children. He could easily threateb her once, and then she would have to make the best decisions she could to keep babies and herself as safe as possible.

She has said she was present during at least one episode of menacing, but she didn't see DN display a hatchet. After a traffic cut off DN got out of the car in a rage and chased some other vehicle screaming.

 

[foxbluff]

I don’t agree.

I think she knows a lot.. and she is trying to save her own butt.

There were reports, pre DN arrest, that a man AND a woman were threatening others.


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I, too, think she knows a lot more than she's willing to say. IMHO, there are several reasons she's holding back. i.e. Covering her Butt, Saving Something for a Diane Sawyer Interview, Saving Something for a Future Tell-All Bk., etc...MOO

 

[NorahB]

Just de-lurking again to say Oh Boy, how fascinating is this case??? Seems as time goes by we have more questions than answers, including, but not limited to

- do LE actually have any DNA worth a damn?? I mean, I am sure they have a thousand random touch profiles from bits of garbage picked up from under the bridge, but do they have blood/semen from the bodies? I am thinking not

- what is the &#8216;twist&#8217; that they eluded to at the beginning of the investigation? The cause of death? The phone stuff? Something we don&#8217;t know about?

- is DN a viable suspect, or just some random drug-affected loony-tunes who happens to like waving a hatchet at decent folks in the woods? If so why does his mug-shot resemble the BG sketch SO perfectly, right down to the lines of shadow on the planes of his face?

So what is going on? Any ideas?

 

[Shiressleuth]

I, too, think she knows a lot more than she's willing to say. IMHO, there are several reasons she's holding back. i.e. Covering her Butt, Saving Something for a Diane Sawyer Interview, Saving Something for a Future Tell-All Bk., etc...MOO

I thought that too. But DN would have to be BG for that story to be worth anything. The Axe Man Cometh could be an apt title. :cow:

 

[foxbluff]

I thought that too. But DN would have to be BG for that story to be worth anything. The Axe Man Cometh could be an apt title. :cow:

:scared:

 

[BeesInMyBonnet]

KN’s interview brought to mind one of my sisters-in-law who suffers from a mental illness and addictions. She lost custody of her oldest child and soon after had a child with a violent boyfriend.

He raped her while she was pregnant, beat her, and was arrested and jailed so many times. Despite all of that—and losing custody of the second child, who has fetal alcohol syndrome—my SIL visited her abuser in jail and reunited with him for a time. He’s now doing more time in prison.

She relies on her siblings for financial support. They all do all they can to give her shelter, clothing, safety, and access to medical treatment, but she is her own worst enemy.

She steals from family, has done her own time in jail, and will manipulate facts and flat out lie to garner support.

That’s how KN’s interview came across to me: finessed truth and conveniently forgotten details to distance herself from DN. Perhaps it’s survival instinct: She’s learned to do to shelter herself and her kids from his wrath. Perhaps it’s battered wife syndrome. I don’t know, but I took her statements in the interview with a heaping spoonful of salt.


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[Rossymom]

Do you think perhaps the shoe of the biker was in a different location than the bike because DN was using the bike for errands? Perhaps the bike was found abandoned because it was not being used at the time? Bikes do not use gas and they are fairly quiet.

 

[kizzykat]

I believe DN is capable of stealing a bike. But it sounds like TW's bike was found the afternoon he went missing, so DN wouldn't have had it for very long before it was found. I mentioned this earlier but will say again, details of the search for TW are hauntingly familiar: http://www.kktv.com/content/news/Se...in-biker-missing-since-Sept-14-445114943.html

Do you think perhaps the shoe of the biker was in a different location than the bike because DN was using the bike for errands? Perhaps the bike was found abandoned because it was not being used at the time? Bikes do not use gas and they are fairly quiet.

 

[Jabarn]

Do you think perhaps the shoe of the biker was in a different location than the bike because DN was using the bike for errands? Perhaps the bike was found abandoned because it was not being used at the time? Bikes do not use gas and they are fairly quiet.

IMO, there has to be some intuition with the investigators to link the bicyclist, Tim Watkins, the hatchet threats DN is officially charged, and Abby & Libby.

It is interesting that with Watkins&#8217; body, there was apparent attempt to conceal it under leaves, like DN&#8217;s uncle did with DN&#8217;s mom.

It seems the shoe may have came off some time during the attack, and was missed by the killer. The bicycle, like you said, was also found on the trail, and that would be something hard to overlook by the killer. Why go to the trouble of concealing the body, only to leave the bike on the trail?

This case is so styminging. DN was, IMO, a perfect storm of personality characteristics to have done all three. At the same time, scarily, there are others like him.

edited: you didn&#8217;t say the bycicle was found on a trail, only that it was found quickly. Reread, and it was found off the trail. I assume it was the trail where his body was found later, but don&#8217;t know.

 

[Jabarn]

I believe DN is capable of stealing a bike. But it sounds like TW's bike was found the afternoon he went missing, so DN wouldn't have had it for very long before it was found. I mentioned this earlier but will say again, details of the search for TW are hauntingly familiar: http://www.kktv.com/content/news/Se...in-biker-missing-since-Sept-14-445114943.html

Making the story even stranger, the shoe was found directly on Mount Herman Road, but the bike was found a little ways off the trail, Hayden said. There's been no other sign of Watkins for four days.

http://www.kktv.com/content/news/Se...in-biker-missing-since-Sept-14-445114943.html

Maybe there was an attempt to at least throw the bike out of sight, IDK.

ETA> The shoe being found on Mount Herman Road. Could it be TW was biking on a road, at some point, and this was a road rage incident? It might make sense.... I have friends who bicycle and deal with frustrated motorists (not to the level of DN).