IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #72

[tmar]

Just de-lurking again to say Oh Boy, how fascinating is this case??? Seems as time goes by we have more questions than answers, including, but not limited to

- do LE actually have any DNA worth a damn?? I mean, I am sure they have a thousand random touch profiles from bits of garbage picked up from under the bridge, but do they have blood/semen from the bodies? I am thinking not

- what is the ‘twist’ that they eluded to at the beginning of the investigation? The cause of death? The phone stuff? Something we don’t know about?

- is DN a viable suspect, or just some random drug-affected loony-tunes who happens to like waving a hatchet at decent folks in the woods? If so why does his mug-shot resemble the BG sketch SO perfectly, right down to the lines of shadow on the planes of his face?

So what is going on? Any ideas?

Norah. Welcome.
I agree with your statements: more and more questions, going round in circles!!
Few answers!!!

 

[Jabarn]

KN’s interview brought to mind one of my sisters-in-law who suffers from a mental illness and addictions. She lost custody of her oldest child and soon after had a child with a violent boyfriend.

He raped her while she was pregnant, beat her, and was arrested and jailed so many times. Despite all of that—and losing custody of the second child, who has fetal alcohol syndrome—my SIL visited her abuser in jail and reunited with him for a time. He’s now doing more time in prison.

She relies on her siblings for financial support. They all do all they can to give her shelter, clothing, safety, and access to medical treatment, but she is her own worst enemy.

She steals from family, has done her own time in jail, and will manipulate facts and flat out lie to garner support.

That’s how KN’s interview came across to me: finessed truth and conveniently forgotten details to distance herself from DN. Perhaps it’s survival instinct: She’s learned to do to shelter herself and her kids from his wrath. Perhaps it’s battered wife syndrome. I don’t know, but I took her statements in the interview with a heaping spoonful of salt.


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At the same, she is very articulate. She doesn’t seem stupid. Why in the world would she be involved in a relationship like this? I know there has to be a story there.

 

[Ember123]

I thought that too. But DN would have to be BG for that story to be worth anything. The Axe Man Cometh could be an apt title. :cow:

Shire, you are SO funny! Also quite insightful! I very much appreciate all your postings these past many months!

 

[tmar]

KN’s interview brought to mind one of my sisters-in-law who suffers from a mental illness and addictions. She lost custody of her oldest child and soon after had a child with a violent boyfriend.

He raped her while she was pregnant, beat her, and was arrested and jailed so many times. Despite all of that—and losing custody of the second child, who has fetal alcohol syndrome—my SIL visited her abuser in jail and reunited with him for a time. He’s now doing more time in prison.

She relies on her siblings for financial support. They all do all they can to give her shelter, clothing, safety, and access to medical treatment, but she is her own worst enemy.

She steals from family, has done her own time in jail, and will manipulate facts and flat out lie to garner support.

That’s how KN’s interview came across to me: finessed truth and conveniently forgotten details to distance herself from DN. Perhaps it’s survival instinct: She’s learned to do to shelter herself and her kids from his wrath. Perhaps it’s battered wife syndrome. I don’t know, but I took her statements in the interview with a heaping spoonful of salt.


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Bees. Thanks for opening up about your experiences with your SIL.
This may help to explain KN's behaviour: sticking to their man, even though, he does so much harm to all, time and time again.

 

[BeesInMyBonnet]

At the same, she is very articulate. She doesn’t seem stupid. Why in the world would she be involved in a relationship like this? I know there has to be a story there.

In my SIL’s case, it’s sexual assault at the hands of a childhood friend’s father and bipolar disorder.


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[Ember123]

I agree. The fact she was still attached to this miscreant speaks volumes. It says she isn't operating with normal cognitive abilities, or is just horribly abused and paralyzed. Maybe both. I need more info on this gal to have a more clearly formed opinion.

Amateur opinion and speculation only.

Agreed, SO much about KN we DON'T know. My own dtr fell victim to an older alcoholic psychopath (not exaggerating) while I was across the country Travel Nursing (she got mono, had to leave college, was staying with friends when he noticed her in the neighborhood..I was finishing out a contract in AZ and only heard her side of things over the phone.) Next thing I knew she had married him, then had a baby, I was unable to see her for a whole year because he isolated her and convinced her his paranoid rantings about myself and our family being evil etc were for real. She was brainwashed by this monster and even signed false accusations he wrote up seeking 2 restraining orders against me, all based on nonsense! I had to hire an atty, defend myself in court 2 times, and none of his rantings were based in reality. Very scary. Finally he pleaded guilty for threatening to kill her if she contacted me. Yes my dtr has a cognitive impairment but it is very subtle. She drives, works part-time etc but obviously needs looking after. Thankfully she is with me now, got away from him 5 yrs ago with the help of others, and my grand dtr is alive and well too, aged 7. We all live together. She got a 5 yr restraining order & will renew it in Jan. He pays no support, we just want him AWAY and so far have had no problems because he has no car, can't hold a job, big drinker, schizoid issues as well. Hoping he might O.D. on heroin or something one day so we can safely visit his parents, my grand dtrs other grandparents. While he is alive, we don't dare. Very sad. My grand dtr knows nothing of this, of course. My dtr is a very sweet, kind, good person and this guy totally brainwashed her and had her genuinely fooled into thinking his way. KN may have been taken for a ride similarly. It can happen so easily to young girls who think they are in love, then have a baby to complicate things, etc. We shouldn'tpresume to know her when we don't, nor DN either. She seems a victim to me but she may not yet even realize it, honestly. It happens!

 

[Koshka]

Agreed, SO much about KN we DON'T know. My own dtr fell victim to an older alcoholic psychopath (not exaggerating) while I was across the country Travel Nursing (she got mono, had to leave college, was staying with friends when he noticed her in the neighborhood..I was finishing out a contract in AZ and only heard her side of things over the phone.) Next thing I knew she had married him, then had a baby, I was unable to see her for a whole year because he isolated her and convinced her his paranoid rantings about myself and our family being evil etc were for real. She was brainwashed by this monster and even signed false accusations he wrote up seeking 2 restraining orders against me, all based on nonsense! I had to hire an atty, defend myself in court 2 times, and none of his rantings were based in reality. Very scary. Finally he pleaded guilty for threatening to kill her if she contacted me. Yes my dtr has a cognitive impairment but it is very subtle. She drives, works part-time etc but obviously needs looking after. Thankfully she is with me now, got away from him 5 yrs ago with the help of others, and my grand dtr is alive and well too, aged 7. We all live together. She got a 5 yr restraining order & will renew it in Jan. He pays no support, we just want him AWAY and so far have had no problems because he has no car, can't hold a job, big drinker, schizoid issues as well. Hoping he might O.D. on heroin or something one day so we can safely visit his parents, my grand dtrs other grandparents. While he is alive, we don't dare. Very sad. My grand dtr knows nothing of this, of course. My dtr is a very sweet, kind, good person and this guy totally brainwashed her and had her genuinely fooled into thinking his way. KN may have been taken for a ride similarly. It can happen so easily to young girls who think they are in love, then have a baby to complicate things, etc. We shouldn'tpresume to know her when we don't, nor DN either. She seems a victim to me but she may not yet even realize it, honestly. It happens!

Sigh. I have a friend who has had a similar experience. Her adult daughter (20s) has a learning disability and a guy in his late 30s (drug and alcohol issues, in and out of jail, unemployed) got his claws into her. Heartbreaking to see a nice girl get turned around and yes, brainwashed by someone like that. I think people of his ilk see people with deficits like hers a mile away. They prey upon the vulnerable.

 

[kkdj]

Sounds like DN has had a rough and sad life, with family murdering their own family! It makes one wonder if there is mental illness in this family, drug and/or alcohol abuse. Regardless, it seems as if DN has had all of these problems and maybe nobody in his life to guide him down the right path. Although understanding right from wrong it doesn't sound like a good value system was presented to him during his formative years. I know I'm just speculating, but it makes sense to me. Then it makes me wonder what kind of a person would want to marry this type and have his children? Someone with a similar background? Possibly a people fixer? I'm not trying to sleuth KN but rather what type of person would choose this?

 

[WildWild_West]

[brainstorming] did they ever find Abby’s duffle-bag? Maybe that’s what DN was initially after. It states that they stole to keep going. That, and the fact that these girls were smaller than him and he IS a convicted sexual predator.

I think about the girls and their families all the time. I pray for justice and peace for those they left behind. May today be the day. [emoji171][emoji171]


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[mtnlites]

- what is the ‘twist’ that they eluded to at the beginning of the investigation? The cause of death? The phone stuff? Something we don’t know about?

So what is going on? Any ideas?

I think the twist is simply that the girls got their attacker on video.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Sounds like DN has had a rough and sad life, with family murdering their own family! It makes one wonder if there is mental illness in this family, drug and/or alcohol abuse. Regardless, it seems as if DN has had all of these problems and maybe nobody in his life to guide him down the right path. Although understanding right from wrong it doesn't sound like a good value system was presented to him during his formative years. I know I'm just speculating, but it makes sense to me. Then it makes me wonder what kind of a person would want to marry this type and have his children? Someone with a similar background? Possibly a people fixer? I'm not trying to sleuth KN but rather what type of person would choose this?

Someone who has been abused their whole life and finds it familiar

 

[DarkSkink]

Why didn't the interviewer ask her about the voice recording? Does it sound like him or not? She talks about his southern drawl, so the obvious next question is... The recording.

Did she decline to answer that at the request of LE?

She also said he walks with a limp. Surely, the video would show something like that. It has been speculated based on the pictures and the gif that BG could have a limp. It would likely be even more pronounced walking on railway ties.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I think the twist is simply that the girls got their attacker on video.

The twist perhaps, just a thought now: The girls got driven away and back, but the first and only suspect had no car and was hitchhiking?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Making the story even stranger, the shoe was found directly on Mount Herman Road, but the bike was found a little ways off the trail, Hayden said. There's been no other sign of Watkins for four days.

http://www.kktv.com/content/news/Se...in-biker-missing-since-Sept-14-445114943.html

Maybe there was an attempt to at least throw the bike out of sight, IDK.

ETA> The shoe being found on Mount Herman Road. Could it be TW was biking on a road, at some point, and this was a road rage incident? It might make sense.... I have friends who bicycle and deal with frustrated motorists (not to the level of DN).

I think: road rage incident with DN, he or she as a driver. If she was the driver he sat besides and forced her to aim at TW. Maybe. IMO

 

[her]

[brainstorming] did they ever find Abby’s duffle-bag? Maybe that’s what DN was initially after. It states that they stole to keep going. That, and the fact that these girls were smaller than him and he IS a convicted sexual predator.

I think about the girls and their families all the time. I pray for justice and peace for those they left behind. May today be the day. [emoji171][emoji171]
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Where does it say she was missing a duffel bag?
State of Indiana Ca Co has DN listed as an offender not a predator. There is a difference, why I don't get it but there is.

 

[Owl4]

Praying today is the day for justice!

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[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

Why didn't the interviewer ask her about the voice recording? Does it sound like him or not? She talks about his southern drawl, so the obvious next question is... The recording.

Did she decline to answer that at the request of LE?

She also said he walks with a limp. Surely, the video would show something like that. It has been speculated based on the pictures and the gif that BG could have a limp. It would likely be even more pronounced walking on railway ties.

RBBM

Is there enough video footage of him walking in and out of court in CO to determine exactly how much of a limp he has?

Edit: I believe you were referring to the video taken on Liberty’s phone. I’m wondering about the new MSM footage to verify the limp.

 

[Jerrod]

- is DN a viable suspect, or just some random drug-affected loony-tunes who happens to like waving a hatchet at decent folks in the woods? If so why does his mug-shot resemble the BG sketch SO perfectly, right down to the lines of shadow on the planes of his face? So what is going on? Any ideas?

With regard to the sketch and mugshot similarities, I believe what is going on is this:

1. Out of exasperation and impatience, people want DN to be BG (to avoid having to go back to square one). Consequently, they see what they want to see in the sketch to bolster that. For them, it may be too frustrating to scrutinize the witness' and sketch artist's depiction of BG's hooded eyelids, and then have to consider that BG might actually be much older than 31.

2. Many Indy folks have lamented the fact that they seem to see men similar in appearance to BG when they're simply out running errands, but the hat apparently prevents them from being convinced. As detailed as the sketch is, many of BG's features are still somewhat generic, and susceptible to being interpreted and influenced by one's own bias.

3. For those wanting to consider someone else with a close (or closer) resemblance to the BG sketch, go back to mugshots.com and type in the name of a 48-year-old guy named Jimmy Dale Duvall, and note his features for comparison. Pay particular attention to his eyelids. He's probably not a viable suspect, but if he happened to be the number one POI, the age proximity would be added to the list of existing similarities to BG that's currently noted with DN ........ blue eyes notwithstanding.

 

[Boxer]

The ISP investigators that went to CO to interview DN weren't enthusiastic on return, and now it seems obvious they had a feeling he wasn't the right or at least the principal person.

We know they are still on their path that they were before DN showed up, and in August they said they were getting closer. (I think Det. Holeman said he knew it that sounded cliché, but they were getting closer.) So that is still encouraging. They have to move a mountain of data and information to solve this.

 

[carbuff]

Sounds like DN has had a rough and sad life, with family murdering their own family! It makes one wonder if there is mental illness in this family, drug and/or alcohol abuse. Regardless, it seems as if DN has had all of these problems and maybe nobody in his life to guide him down the right path. Although understanding right from wrong it doesn't sound like a good value system was presented to him during his formative years. I know I'm just speculating, but it makes sense to me. Then it makes me wonder what kind of a person would want to marry this type and have his children? Someone with a similar background? Possibly a people fixer? I'm not trying to sleuth KN but rather what type of person would choose this?

Yeah, there's that whole "A good woman's love made a new man of me" fairy tale that a kind-hearted person (sometimes relative or friend, not just romantic partners) falls into, thinking they can save him.

But once you're in, it's really hard to get out. I've seen it happen that way too many times among my relatives and their friends.