IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #72

[Shiressleuth]

I agree with much of this.

Each day I feel more and more that I fall into a minority that DOESN'T think the sketch looks like DN. I honestly do not see it. Similarities? Sure. But the sketch is so generic that I believe I could take almost any POI, put them up against the sketch, and see the same similarities.

I appreciate that some don't see similarities. I was in exactly the same situation when other posters insisted it was 77 y.o. RL, so I know exactly what it feels like. Those who think DN is not BG, did any of you think it could be RL, just out of curiousity?

 

[her]

I don't have a clue who BG is.
I can see why ppl think it was either, a professional fence sitter over here.

The amount of coincidences are building up where he certainly could be.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I believe that some of your examples are, indeed, simply coincidences. He was in Indiana, had access to a vehicle, and resembles BG-so do many other men (including lots of RSOs). We have yet to see any evidence that he was in Delphi, had ever been to Delphi, or that the Delphi killings involved a hatchet (which seems to be one of his MOs). Not all of us think he looks just like the sketch, either, and many of his previous acts could be considered hearsay, since he wasn't charged with anything.

I need more evidence that ties him to the crime before I am that confident.

That's fine. Happy to wait for ballistics, forensics on hatchet and phone data re the 3 murders. I would not call his record hearsay- you have heard from the victim herself. The other stuff he ran away from hence the warrants. It has now caught up with him.

 

[noel leon]

Zero sympathy here for DN and MOO no resemblance to BG phone pics.

Thats where I am at the moment.

 

[mtnlites]

I think the sketch looks like an older person myself and the eyes do look like DN a bit. So I can understand why people ran with it.
Me I would never have put two and two together just on the sketch alone, at all actually. However, sketches on perps are a funny thing to me, half the time not too close of a match. Now on the actual BG photos nope, nothing compares but really what can. They are awful.

Once an arrest and conviction are made, and they put the original sketch up to the perp, I almost always end up scratching my head.

I also think that the sketch looks like someone older. DN, on the other hand, appears to be age-identifable. If I were shown a picture of DN, I would guess 25-35. BG's sketch, however, looks like someone who is 40+. (To me, anyway.) I think the photos of BG also look older than DN.

I don't mind if people disagree with me. One of the reasons I come to WS is because it's not an echo chamber, full of everyone having the same ideas. I want to be able to feel comfortable stating my opinions, though, and over the course of the past few weeks that has felt more and more difficult. Just because I have different ideas and need more evidence before I am convinced that DN and BG are one and the same doesn't mean that I don't think DN is a great guy or doesn't have problems. I can think he's a totally messed-up dude, with a series of heinous acts strewn behind him and the potential to commit even worse ones in the future, and still think that he might be innocent of THIS crime.

 

[carbuff]

I appreciate that some don't see similarities. I was in exactly the same situation when other posters insisted it was 77 y.o. RL, so I know exactly what it feels like. Those who think DN is not BG, did any of you think it could be RL, just out of curiousity?

I don't want to rule anybody in or out without a lot better evidence than we're privy to, but I don't think the sketches and photos of Bridge Guy look much like DN, and I see very little resemblance to RL. Could it be either of them? Absolutely. Do I think it is? No.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Well, it is apparently not a stretch for a "homeless, registered RSO" to go off the rails and kill someone. It just happened here (Indianapolis) on Friday night when a man murdered a guy in Kroger (grocery store) in the dairy aisle.

http://fox59.com/2017/10/22/family-says-kroger-victim-fatally-shot-with-own-gun/

^ details about shooter, RSO, homeless, etc

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...ndys-south-side-suspect-leads-police-on-chase

^ pic of suspect (possibly resembles BG sketch even)

He is in jail at least.

Seems to be an epidemic of homeless murderers. This guy was a meth user and a paranoic. Not convicted but captured thankfully. Drugs and homeless and RSO not a good mix.

 

[tokyorose]

Seems to be an epidemic of homeless murderers. This guy was a meth user and a paranoic. Not convicted but captured thankfully. Drugs and homeless and RSO not a good mix.

Unless the man arrested today was in jail last February or already has DNA in the system, I imagine LE will swab him to place him at the crime scene on 2/13 as well.

 

[sumzero]

I believe that some of your examples are, indeed, simply coincidences. He was in Indiana, had access to a vehicle, and resembles BG-so do many other men (including lots of RSOs). We have yet to see any evidence that he was in Delphi, had ever been to Delphi, or that the Delphi killings involved a hatchet (which seems to be one of his MOs). Not all of us think he looks just like the sketch, either, and many of his previous acts could be considered hearsay, since he wasn't charged with anything.

I need more evidence that ties him to the crime before I am that confident.

I agree. Evidence, not conjecture, is all that matters.

There is obviously no ballistics match to the gun or DN would be charged by now. (Ballistics testing takes a day at most.) Had DN murdered TW, he would’ve fled from the area ASAP. Instead, he was still wandering around the area, even drawing attention to himself. Definitely not the actions of someone who wants to elude LE after murdering someone.

In addition, if DN’s DNA matched the unidentified DNA from the crime scene, he’d be charged with the Delphi murders by now. (His DNA would’ve been fast-tracked, which takes just a couple of days.) There is absolutely no evidence DN was ever in Delphi. Plus, DN was homeless on 2/13. He likely went to the doctor’s visit with KN (if her memory proves correct). But she maintained control of the car at the time. DN needed her to give him a ride for his weekly check-in’s with LE (including on 2/14). No one else has reported letting DN borrow a car on 2/13 (nor would anyone in their right mind let him borrow one, in all probability). From what we know, DN had no means to go anywhere (or even a reason to go).

The rest is all subjective or conjecture. LE received more than 1000 photos from tipsters who thought the photos resembled BG. DN’s photo wasn’t one of them, apparently, since LE seemed unaware of DN until he was arrested in CO. He’s a ne’er-do-well, certainly. He has a temper. But, as far as we know, he’s never threatened anyone with a gun, let alone shot someone in cold blood. Nor has he sexually assaulted anyone. Pleasuring himself in public is simply not the same thing.

DN is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. He might act impulsively at times, but I doubt he’d be good at covering his tracks. LE obviously has taken a hard look at him. If there was anything to connect him to the Delphi murders, they’d have discovered it by now.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I don't want to rule anybody in or out without a lot better evidence than we're privy to, but I don't think the sketches and photos of Bridge Guy look much like DN, and I see very little resemblance to RL. Could it be either of them? Absolutely. Do I think it is? No.

The video/voice and sketch are the starting point. The cause of death and weapons are the next piece of the puzzle, which we do not have. For ISP to hightail it over to Co says a lot to me and I therefore think there is something in the way the girls died that ties it to DN somehow. We won't know more till the other items are confirmed. We also do not know if the eyewitnesses think it is DN, and that is the litmus test really as they will have to swear it in court. AJMO.

 

[BoggLed in Ohio]

I agree. Evidence, not conjecture, is all that matters.

There is obviously no ballistics match to the gun or DN would be charged by now. (Ballistics testing takes a day at most.) Had DN murdered TW, he would’ve fled from the area ASAP. Instead, he was still wandering around the area, even drawing attention to himself. Definitely not the actions of someone who wants to elude LE after murdering someone.

In addition, if DN’s DNA matched the unidentified DNA from the crime scene, he’d be charged with the Delphi murders by now. (His DNA would’ve been fast-tracked, which takes just a couple of days.) There is absolutely no evidence DN was ever in Delphi. Plus, DN was homeless on 2/13. He likely went to the doctor’s visit with KN (if her memory proves correct). But she maintained control of the car at the time. DN needed her to give him a ride for his weekly check-in’s with LE (including on 2/14). No one else has reported letting DN borrow a car on 2/13 (nor would anyone in their right mind let him borrow one, in all probability). From what we know, DN had no means to go anywhere (or even a reason to go).

The rest is all subjective or conjecture. LE received more than 1000 photos from tipsters who thought the photos resembled BG. DN’s photo wasn’t one of them, apparently, since LE seemed unaware of DN until he was arrested in CO. He’s a ne’er-do-well, certainly. He has a temper. But, as far as we know, he’s never threatened anyone with a gun, let alone shot someone in cold blood. Nor has he sexually assaulted anyone. Pleasuring himself in public is simply not the same thing.

DN is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. He might act impulsively at times, but I doubt he’d be good at covering his tracks. LE obviously has taken a hard look at him. If there was anything to connect him to the Delphi murders, they’d have discovered it by now.

Yes YES YES YES YES!!!

 

[Inthedetails]

I can understand that for whomever stated that. I hate mob mentality or tunnel vision, it happens often. A big jump from the creepy stuff he did vs murder.
Just scroll and roll.

BBM

I've been practicing scrolling and rolling....and am surprised at how well it works.

There is also the "ignore user" function that I use when I need a little help with scroll-n-roll self-discipline.

Carry on....

 

[Shiressleuth]

After DN assaulted KN breaking her nose did he go to jail, or have a court order restraining him at all? I know there was a divorce petition but what happened to the actual criminal assault charge?

 

[her]

BBM

I've been practicing scrolling and rolling....and am surprised at how well it works.

There is also the "ignore user" function that I use when I need a little help with scroll-n-roll self-discipline.

Carry on....

I am guilty of needing to scroll and roll more!

 

[ReadySet]

Logged on just to thank your post. Thank you.

Long-time lurker, first-time poster who has been following Abby & Libby since they went missing.

I must say, the thing that spurred me to finally post is my surprise about all the posters saying weirdly supportive things about Daniel Nations. I get it that some people get the gut feeling DN isn’t A&L’s murderer, and others are just pointing out evidence that leads away from him or towards someone else as a prime suspect—those things are totally valid and a crucial part of sleuthing! I appreciate those insights and those aren’t the posts I’m referring to.

I’m more referring to posters writing things along the lines of, “This isn’t the guy, so just move on. Stop raking this innocent man over this coals—back to the drawing board!” I mean, even if you have your theory and good evidence for it, and you think DN PROBABLY isn’t BG for whatever reason, I truly don’t understand how anyone can completely rule him out and disregard the fact that LE in both Indiana and Colorado have declined to rule him out as a suspect in any of the cases in which he’s being investigated.

The other thing that disturbs me is the attitude of, “Well DN’s just an unlucky guy who had a traumatic childhood. He’s just a petty criminal and homeless person who can’t catch a break. We have no reason to suspect he’s capable of murder! We shouldn’t be so quick to judge/should give the poor guy a break.”

Even if we only judge DN by the crimes he has actually been CONVICTED OF in a court of law, by judge or jury, we already have proof that this man is a violent psychopath. With regard to his indecent exposure convictions, you guys, we are not talking about a flasher (which is bad enough, imo) or public urination. DN took sexual pleasure in terrorizing and violating women and children by forcing them to see him masturbate, watching them in a public women’s restroom while masturbating, directly addressing them with crude sexual comments while forcing them to see him masturbate. Put yourself in the victim’s shoes! What a horrifying, traumatic experience this evil man put them through—especially that poor mama with her child!

DN was also CONVICTED of breaking his wife’s nose in front of his child. Again, domestic violence is bad enough on its own and far worse than some posters here seem to comprehend, but this was an especially violent, over-the-top incident.

And those are are just the convictions! Add to that the things DN is charged with in Colorado—attempted assault and threatening folks with a HATCHET. LE decided there was probable cause to charge him with all of that very violent, unhinged behavior. On top of that, we have statements from neighbors and former employers that DN is a violent, frightening, rage-filled man. This is a person who was DISHONORABLY discharged by one of the most respected institutions in the world, the USMC.

DN may or may not be Bridge Guy. He may or may not be connected to the murders of A&L and/ or Tim Watkins. We all pray that person truly responsible for those crimes is caught and convicted, whoever it turns out to be. It is my personal opinion and best guess at this time *only* that we will find out that DN is connected to one or both cases, and probably others, but I am prepared to be wrong. That said, Daniel Nations doesn’t deserve our sympathy or wishes for a good future. He’s no victim. We’ve seen no evidence of him ever expressing remorse or anything but self-pity and rage. He’s a bad, bad guy who has violated and terrorized too many innocent victims already, most of them women and little kids, and been convicted of doing so by respected institutions. Let’s hold no illusions about exactly who we’re dealing with here.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I agree. Evidence, not conjecture, is all that matters.

DN was homeless on 2/13. He likely went to the doctor’s visit with KN (if her memory proves correct). But she maintained control of the car at the time. DN needed her to give him a ride for his weekly check-in’s with LE (including on 2/14). No one else has reported letting DN borrow a car on 2/13 (nor would anyone in their right mind let him borrow one, in all probability). From what we know, DN had no means to go anywhere (or even a reason to go).

Nor has he sexually assaulted anyone. Pleasuring himself in public is simply not the same thing.

RSBM

KN herself said DN had control of car keys while they were in Co. Only difference on 2/13 is that they were separated due to the broken nose incident and divorce proceedings. I doubt he would have been allowed to go with her to the hospital because of that. Because of the assault, DN was homeless and actually living under a bridge in a car that had been lent to him, so he did have access to a vehicle. Regarding public sex offence, I believe it is classed as a sexual assault and that is why he is on the RSO list.

MOO.

 

[minazoe]

Back in the 50's DN would have been found to be criminally insane and locked up for good. The USA did not have people like this running around terrifying people with hatchets and genitals. He is wanton and brazen with no desire whatsoever to control or restrain himself.

In finding him criminally insane he meets the criteria so we no longer are concerned with his mental health because he is both a criminal and insane and a danger to society and too dangerous for even a normal prison and should be medicated.
and kept out of the general population.

it's sad there are people like this.

DN is a danger to society.

MOO

 

[cluciano63]

Ot, just had Crime Watch Daily on...a smalltown crime they could not solve but had DNA. When they finally had a sample from a guy who had refused initially, it was back within hours as a match.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

RSBM

KN herself said DN had control of car keys while they were in Co. Only difference on 2/13 is that they were separated due to the broken nose incident and divorce proceedings. I doubt he would have been allowed to go with her to the hospital because of that. Because of the assault, DN was homeless and actually living under a bridge in a car that had been lent to him, so he did have access to a vehicle. Regarding public sex offence, I believe it is classed as a sexual assault and that is why he is on the RSO list.

MOO.

I didn't know he had access to a vehicle while living homeless under the bridge. Would you happen to have a link? I would like to read more about that. TIA.

BCA

 

[Daey34]

https://www.wthr.com/article/state-...o-interview-person-of-interest-in-delphi-case

"He was pretty much living under the overpass, sleeping in my son's car. He never really had a place stay," Bortner said.

I didn't know he had access to a vehicle while living homeless under the bridge. Would you happen to have a link? I would like to read more about that. TIA.

BCA