IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #73

[Bird of Paradise]

This is what I found looking for the under the bridge remark. I couldn't find anything that stated he was living in the vehicle.

"The last address that he reported with us was that he was staying homeless in the area of State Road 67 under the bridges," said Captain Brent Worth."

"He was always punctual as far as reporting," said Worth. At this point, he said that he had a car, or did not have a car? There was times where he did and times where he was having vehicle problems I think."

http://fox59.com/2017/09/29/man-cal...same-week-girls-bodies-were-found-police-say/

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I’ve said it before.. I’ll say it again.

Two people did this crime. One person had knowledge of the area and was the master mind. The other went along perhaps not knowing how far this was going to go.

Both met at a homeless camp. Person #1 can’t be fingered unless #2 blabs.

#2 isn’t going to admit anything. He was perhaps disgusted by the events yet he participated nonetheless. He isn’t going to volunteer anything unless un refutable proof by LE is given. THEN he’ll want a deal.

Since #1 is the main master mind and sicko it is his DNA at the scene.

MOO of course!!!!!

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YES!!! THIS!!! This is what I've been thinking all along! There has got to be a reason LE said in the beginning it MAY be more than 1 person! What lead them to believe that??

 

[Shiressleuth]

You are right-
and I did not realize the Martinsville farm he worked on was mainly a pig farm.
It looks like the two nearest processing plants for pigs from the farm were Worthington 56 minutes and Delphi 1:40 away —
Seems like price and relationship would dictate which plant a farmer would go to.

http://www.pork.org/pork-quick-facts/home/stats/u-s-packing-sector/

TY for posting the link. That's Worthington, Minnesota - 10 hours from Martinsville. Delphi, is the only place listed in Indiana - so DN working at a pig farm would clearly be familiar with Indiana Packers in Delphi IMO.

 

[DarkSkink]

THANK YOU for this. As per the Psychology Today article I’m including here, sex crimes are NOT about sex. It’s about control and violence. That’s one reason why when posters here claim that it’s far-fetched to believe that DN would escalate from sex crimes to murder, or that because his sex crimes, to our knowledge so far, haven’t included penetration rape, he is an unlikely candidate for murder, I find myself skeptical. Psychology tells us that all sex crimes are about violence in control.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/inside-the-criminal-mind/201106/sex-crimes-are-not-about-sex



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Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of sex crimes without the sex. There aren't a lot of victims of "control and conquer" kidnappings where they are taken and forced to do chores or eat awful things because the perp wants to control them.

We are at the

 

[Shiressleuth]

SS to you have a link handy?
tia

The Captain Worth quote?
Eta I see you've already quoted it.

 

[Momma2cam]

Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of sex crimes without the sex. There aren't a lot of victims of "control and conquer" kidnappings where they are taken and forced to do chores or eat awful things because the perp wants to control them.

We are at the

The power and control dynamic is at the root of the sexual assault. While sex is involved, this is making the point that sexual assault is rarely about the act of sex itself and instead about the ability to assert ultimate power and control over someone through sex. Likewise, often people use the term pedophile to describe sexual assaults against children. There are certainly pedophiles but a significant number of sex crimes against children are motivated by a desire for power and control and not an actual sexual attraction to children.

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[Shiressleuth]

The power and control dynamic is at the root of the sexual assault. While sex is involved, this is making the point that sexual assault is rarely about the act of sex itself and instead about the ability to assert ultimate power and control over someone through sex. Likewise, often people use the term pedophile to describe sexual assaults against children. There are certainly pedophiles but a significant number of sex crimes against children are motivated by a desire for power and control and not an actual sexual attraction to children.

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Do you have a link for this?
Tia

 

[Momma2cam]

TY for posting the link. That's Worthington, Minnesota - 10 hours from Martinsville. Delphi, is the only place listed in Indiana - so DN working at a pig farm would clearly be familiar with Indiana Packers in Delphi IMO.

There is also a plant in Mentone and logansport.

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[Bird of Paradise]

The Captain Worth quote?
Eta I see you've already quoted it.

I found a quote. I did not find the quote you referenced that says he was living in a vehicle under a specific bridge.

If you have it that would be great.

 

[Momma2cam]

Do you have a link for this?
Tia

I was elaborating on the article in psychology today posted earlier, which explained that sexual assault is often about power and control.

I also am using my professional expert experience- sorry, no link for that.

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[Bird of Paradise]

soldiers learn to be calm and directing in the military...Im sure they even practice scenarios of taking prisoners etc...tone of voice..control. MOO

Doesn't appear DN was paying attention when they were teaching calm and directing. At least based on what everyone here has been discussing with regard to waving a hatchet.

 

[Shiressleuth]

DN's Motor Vehicle Charges and Charge Dates in IN:

06/05/2014: 9-21-8-31/IFC: Failure to Yield Right of Way at Entrance to Through Highway

03/21/2015: 35-48-4-11(a)(1)/MB: Possession of Marijuana, 9-19-6-3/IFC: Improper Headlights, 9-30-13-6/IFA: Driving While Suspended; Child Support

08/03/2016: Driving While Suspended requires a knowing violation and a prior conviction of Sec. 1, 9-25-8-2/IFA: Operating a Motor Vehicle Without Financial Responsibility

11/16/2016: 35-48-4-11(a)(1)/MB: Possession of Marijuana, 35-48-4-8.3(b)(1)/MC: Possession of Paraphernalia, 9-24-18-1/MC: Knowingly or Intentionally Operating Motor Vehicle w/o Ever Receiving a License

04/25/2017: 9-24-19-2(1)(2)/MA: Driving While Suspended (Prior w/in 10 years), 35-48-4-8.3(b)(1)/MC: Possession of Paraphernalia

Note on the Source: if you just view the Search Results screen (short summaries) the date that appears for each case is the date case was Filed. To obtain the date of the initial Charge you have to click on each case and view the Case Summary screen.
https://public.courts.in.gov/mycase/#/vw/Search

TY kizzy. What about the Rickers bathroom offence? Was that 2016 too? He borrowed a truck from his employer for that one in Columbus IIRC.
The 25 April most recent is the one he was due to appear in court for on the 18 Jul and did not show so LE went to the motel and discovered he had left 12 May - the real reason he left for Colorado IMO. He left when the baby was only 12 days old .

 

[Shiressleuth]

Doesn't appear DN was paying attention when they were teaching calm and directing. At least based on what everyone here has been discussing with regard to waving a hatchet.

:laughing:
Hate to think what he was like before that lesson.
I just read KN's interview again. Especially the bit where he tried to choke her. "He'd never done that before". Seems that was the final straw. She was glad police stopped them in Woodland Park.

 

[Lore Listener]

Something weird occurred to me this morning that I don't recall seeing discussed on here.

There is not much in this case that I am certain of, but one thing that I am highly confident of is that KN is lying when she says she doesn't know whether DN came with her to the ultrasound appointment.

Until this morning I had always just assumed it was because he was not there, I never thought that hard about it.

But what if she's lying specifically because he WAS there? And something happened around the time of the appointment that was the catalyst for DN becoming enraged enough to possibly kill someone?

I could see DN flying off the handle but having enough restraint to avoid hurting KN while she was pregnant, but that anger would need an outlet somewhere. This scenario actually makes more sense to me than KN lying just because he wasn't there to begin with

Just thought I'd throw it out there, honestly it doesn't move the needle much for me as to whether I think DN is BG (I've been pretty consistently throughout at about 70/30 that he is) but it did help me make sense of the ultrasound thing in a different way.

Wow! Really interesting new perspective.


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[Boxer]

TY for posting the link. That's Worthington, Minnesota - 10 hours from Martinsville. Delphi, is the only place listed in Indiana - so DN working at a pig farm would clearly be familiar with Indiana Packers in Delphi IMO.

TY for posting the link. That's Worthington, Minnesota - 10 hours from Martinsville. Delphi, is the only place listed in Indiana - so DN working at a pig farm would clearly be familiar with Indiana Packers in Delphi IMO.

You are right, there used to be a Worthington Indiana Packers -- (oops, it closed almot 20 years ago) -

Delphi Indiana Packers is a family company - with a strong advertised animal welfare component -- so its one processing plant that is a match for natural and animal welfare ethics advertised by farm that DN worked at. I have no way to know where DNs emplioyer actually did business with Indiana Packers.

 

[Lore Listener]

The US was apparently at 02.45 p.m and would be his alibi if that time is correct and if he was there. KN can't remember and DN isn't saying ATM. Selective amnesia?

Hmm. When you put it like that... Just my opinion, but it seems like if DN was there he would have been able to provide investigators some inside information to help give credibility to the fact he was there. (Even just little bits of verifiable information that only someone who was there would remember, like the ultrasound tech was wearing SpongeBob scrubs, or the baby‘s heartbeat was a little slow, anything of that nature. I remember my OB/GYN‘s office taped funny things to the top of the pens on the front desk so patients wouldn’t accidentally pocket them according to the time of year, like tulips in the spring or pumpkins in the fall. If KN’s doctor did something similar, that would be another little detail he could remember to convince investigators that he was actually there.) You would think he would be doing anything he could to bolster his alibi. Now of course we don’t know that he didn’t and hasn’t, but it does seem like investigators would’ve ruled him out by now if he were able to give such details. Maybe KN did forget if DN was present at the ultrasound, but the chances are a whole a lot slimmer that both of them don’t remember. Especially when that memory could give credence to DN’s alibi and maybe get him out of suspicion for murder.

Thanks for a thought provoking post Shiressleuth!


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[kat913]

Hmm. When you put it like that... Just my opinion, but it seems like if DN was there he would have been able to provide investigators some inside information to help give credibility to the fact he was there. (Even just little bits of verifiable information that only someone who was there would remember, like the ultrasound tech was wearing SpongeBob scrubs, or the baby‘s heartbeat was a little slow, anything of that nature. I remember my OB/GYN‘s office taped funny things to the top of the pens on the front desk so patients wouldn’t accidentally pocket them according to the time of year, like tulips in the spring or pumpkins in the fall. If KN’s doctor did something similar, that would be another little detail he could remember to convince investigators that he was actually there.) You would think he would be doing anything he could to bolster his alibi. Now of course we don’t know that he didn’t and hasn’t, but it does seem like investigators would’ve ruled him out by now if he were able to give such details. Maybe KN did forget if DN was present at the ultrasound, but the chances are a whole a lot slimmer that both of them don’t remember. Especially when that memory could give credence to DN’s alibi and maybe get him out of suspicion for murder.

Thanks for a thought provoking post Shiressleuth!


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Just a little side note since KN was pretty ambiguous with her statements. She endured abuse and fear while being with DN therefore she is caught in a quandry. Keeping him away from her gives her a sense of relief (therefore she may not be so quick to exonerate him and help prove his innocence). On the flip side she probably has feelings of loyalty (misguided perhaps but still there for him) therfore she doesn't want to get him in too much trouble that can be traced back to her betraying him.

Victims of Domestic Violence can be confusing and contradictory to understand but everything they do or don't do is for pure survival and betraying the abuser (even if it is just perceived) is very scary and actually can be debillatating for the victim. Their behavior may appear irrational but to them they know how to survive in that familar environment. Breaking free is a very difficult emotional process and therefore I would really hope both KN and her children will have the support they all need.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Didn't one of his employers say he sometimes drove pigs to slaughter? Would that be at Delphi if he did that job?

He never received a license for driving a car, so I think he isn't allowed driving a truck. Maybe his partner who was driving the truck is the second man in the evil murderous tour to Monon bridge?

 

[kizzykat]

TY kizzy. What about the Rickers bathroom offence? Was that 2016 too? He borrowed a truck from his employer for that one in Columbus IIRC.
.

<snipped by me>
That charge was on 7/24/2015.
So that's two instances we know of he drove in 2015, two in 2016, and two in 2017 (one in April in IN and the photo near searchers in CO). He got 3 driving while suspended tickets, one each year from 2015-2017.
Those were just the times he was caught driving. Probably many more times he was driving a car and wasn't caught. I think this guy just does what he pleases as far as using/driving a vehicle and it's worth the risk/no big deal to him if he gets caught. MOO

 

[Shiressleuth]

You are right, there used to be a Worthington Indiana Packers -- (oops, it closed almot 20 years ago) -

Delphi Indiana Packers is a family company - with a strong advertised animal welfare component -- so its one processing plant that is a match for natural and animal welfare ethics advertised by farm that DN worked at. I have no way to know where DNs emplioyer actually did business with Indiana Packers.

No but as the only hog slaughtering place in Indiana, I can't see them going anywhere else if they have to comply with certain standards - unless they sold them live at market.
Eta Momma has pointed out two others in Indie but they are farther than Delphi .