IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #73

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If the killer of these girls had had intercourse with them/one of them, there would be DNA evidence... which could be matched against any potential perp, who would then be dismissed as a POI, or arrested. jmo. This doesn't seem to be happening. Too bad we don't have more details from LE. (Personally, I believe that if the girls had been 'raped', LE would have said so. What advantage is there to NOT saying so? If raped, and they said so, then (imo) the public would be that much MORE enraged about what happened to these girls, and perhaps that might lead to more tips being called in from people who weren't sure about someone they knew being a potential POI, but a possibility... so why NOT tell people they were raped, if they were?). Also, the way that LE has responded to the 'was there DNA at the crimescene question', leads me to believe they have various DNA, but not necessarily sure whether they have the perp's DNA.

In regard to DN... considering that he has a history of publicly exposing himself, and a reported history of becoming quick to 'rage'/temper.. it doesn't strike me as far-fetched that he may expose himself while out on the trails. Even in my small city, there are numerous incidents reported in the news each year in regard to whackjobs exposing themselves, and/or pleasuring themselves, in public (usually seen/reported by people walking/running/biking... and those whackjobs are not necessarily ever identified).

And to go one step further, if exposing himself were met with taunting, ridicule, laughter, name-calling, and/or insults, it wouldn't be a leap to imagine a perp becoming enraged that his tactics were met with ridicule as opposed to shock. And especially if his personal life situation at the time was putting him under a lot of stress (homelessness, another child to support on the way, no job, no money, possibly putdowns from someone close to him for failing to provide, possibly stressors in regard to a missing brother?, whatever). And especially if a perp may have been ridiculed by others throughout his lifetime.

Then months later.. we discover that CO police, for whatever reasons that they are aware of (and we are not privy to), believed there were similarities between the CO cyclist murder and the Delphi murders - enough to contact IN police and also report it to news reporters, although that is as much as we know, since IN police immediately shut it down by asking CO LE to say nothing about their case.

Lo and behold, DN is caught on camera in a vehicle recognizable by plates, after acting suspiciously during a search for the murdered cyclist.. and turns out he was also in IN at the time of the Delphi murders.. and apparently he has no alibi. Police aren't able to exclude him as a potential suspect. Sounds like a bit of circumstantial evidence there so far, but not enough yet for charges.. I just don't think the girls were raped (for reasons outlined above).. and my guess is that DN was feeling stressed and angry as opposed to looking to fulfill sexual needs. jmo!!!!!!!!
I think this is exactly right. No DNA because no rape or even sexual assault apart from possibly being caught exposing himself- an enraged killing with no premeditation - he just lost it and has disposed of the clothes and weapon(s) so there is no match on those either. LE are probably still doing forensics on the car he was using at the time as well as KN's car and all their belongings. JMO.
 
Since the intent was there to possibly SA but say he was interrupted, by family yelling their names or (more likely) phone ringing, DN may not have wanted more charges looming over his head and snapped. imo. I agree they have some DNA and do not know if they have the perp's DNA. Think of all the volunteer searchers and random hikers who may have trounced through other parts of the crime scene - by the bridge say. imo

There are ways to sexually assault someone without leaving any DNA.

Other objects could be used etc.

I’ll leave it at that


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So, it still stands that gas money to drive 3 hours round trip is hard to come buy. My point.

No it’s not.

They have a huge panhandling network as well as real jobs.

Some live in camps by choice not strictly because of financials


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With all due respect, we also don't know how many employers and wives have come forward in the tips that LE received, either.
WADR that was partly phrased as a question so I accept we wouldn't know that, but this wife and employer has said it in camera and to media (so presumably LE too). No other wife or person has publicly done that - not even during the RL fiasco AFAIK. It was the opposite in that instance.
 
So, it still stands that gas money to drive 3 hours round trip is hard to come buy. My point.
So about 4-5 gallons maybe $10 and driving for work possibly. I wonder if he ever did casual work for Purdue for example?
 
Something weird occurred to me this morning that I don't recall seeing discussed on here.

There is not much in this case that I am certain of, but one thing that I am highly confident of is that KN is lying when she says she doesn't know whether DN came with her to the ultrasound appointment.

Until this morning I had always just assumed it was because he was not there, I never thought that hard about it.

But what if she's lying specifically because he WAS there? And something happened around the time of the appointment that was the catalyst for DN becoming enraged enough to possibly kill someone?

I could see DN flying off the handle but having enough restraint to avoid hurting KN while she was pregnant, but that anger would need an outlet somewhere. This scenario actually makes more sense to me than KN lying just because he wasn't there to begin with

Just thought I'd throw it out there, honestly it doesn't move the needle much for me as to whether I think DN is BG (I've been pretty consistently throughout at about 70/30 that he is) but it did help me make sense of the ultrasound thing in a different way.
 
Sketches often resemble lots of people. I was watching the Chelsea Bruck case on dateline last week. They showed the sketch and said they were inundated with calls and reports of people knowing someone that looked like the sketch.

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We know that happened in this case too 24,000 tips with 6, 000 after the sketch was issued IIRC. However LE have only ever named two POI's in this case and one was cleared before the sketch was issued and one is still being considered. We can only discuss POI's that LE have named.
 
Something weird occurred to me this morning that I don't recall seeing discussed on here.

There is not much in this case that I am certain of, but one thing that I am highly confident of is that KN is lying when she says she doesn't know whether DN came with her to the ultrasound appointment.

Until this morning I had always just assumed it was because he was not there, I never thought that hard about it.

But what if she's lying specifically because he WAS there? And something happened around the time of the appointment that was the catalyst for DN becoming enraged enough to possibly kill someone?

I could see DN flying off the handle but having enough restraint to avoid hurting KN while she was pregnant, but that anger would need an outlet somewhere. This scenario actually makes more sense to me than KN lying just because he wasn't there to begin with

Just thought I'd throw it out there, honestly it doesn't move the needle much for me as to whether I think DN is BG (I've been pretty consistently throughout at about 70/30 that he is) but it did help me make sense of the ultrasound thing in a different way.
Do you mean she knows he was at the US and is lying or that she knows he was at Delphi and is lying?
 
Do you mean she knows he was at the US and is lying or that she knows he was at Delphi and is lying?

At the ultrasound, but at a time of day that did not preclude him from also potentially going to Delphi later.
 
We know that happened in this case too 24,000 tips with 6, 000 after the sketch was issued IIRC. However LE have only ever named two POI's in this case and one was cleared before the sketch was issued and one is still being considered. We can only discuss POI's that LE have named.
Very true and is why I don't put much weight into KN and employer saying he resembles the sketch as it is possible numerous other people have come forward saying the same but since they were not named POI at this time, nothing public has been shared about these calls.

Has anyone been able to come up with a good reason why DN would choose to go to Delphi, assuming he was able to get there? As others have said, something linking him to the area would give more credibility to his connection, IMO.

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Very true and is why I don't put much weight into KN and employer saying he resembles the sketch as it is possible numerous other people have come forward saying the same but since they were not named POI at this time, nothing public has been shared about these calls.

Has anyone been able to come up with a good reason why DN would choose to go to Delphi, assuming he was able to get there? As others have said, something linking him to the area would give more credibility to his connection, IMO.

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Agreed. And, as much as I think DN fits the crime for SO many reasons, it is well documented that the trail and bridge where this took place is WAY outta the way for someone to stumble across it. What are the chances someone, without a connection to Delphi, would happen upon the bridge, find and kill the girls, and then get away without a trace IN BROAD DAYLIGHT? The whole scenario seems impossible for someone NOT connected to the area somehow, someway.


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Looks like it's almost time for a new thread.

I just went back and counted, this is at least thread #4 or 5 discussing DN.

:notgood:

Has anyone looked an unsolved murders in the immediate area where he has lived? Or do you believe he suddently morphed from a flasher and person with uncontrolled anger to a person in complete control with the girls?

Do you think that someone who wildly jumped out of a car to wield a hatchet at someone is the same cold calculating person that managed to calmly lead two innocent young teens off a bridge and murder them?

Calmly directed down the hill.

Sheriff Leazenby stated last week at this stage they have nothing to connect him to the murders...nothing concrete. (Scroll back for link).

A person who is wild and reactionary vs a person who is calm and directing.
 
At the ultrasound, but at a time of day that did not preclude him from also potentially going to Delphi later.
The US was apparently at 02.45 p.m and would be his alibi if that time is correct and if he was there. KN can't remember and DN isn't saying ATM. Selective amnesia?
 
Sketches often resemble lots of people. I was watching the Chelsea Bruck case on dateline last week. They showed the sketch and said they were inundated with calls and reports of people knowing someone that looked like the sketch.

And to underscore your very good point:

[FONT=&quot]"Please keep in mind the Indiana State Police has received more than a thousand photos of persons alleged to be similar in appearance to the composite sketch of the Delphi person of interest. Each and everyone of these tips are investigated for any potential connection to our case.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We will give the same attention to the person arrested in Colorado, but right now there is nothing that definitively connects this person to our investigation. If that should change — with this tip, or any other tip — rest assured we would be sharing such news with all media sources." (updated October 1st)

http://heavy.com/news/2017/09/daniel-nations-colorado-hatchet-man-delphi-indiana-murders-photos/[/FONT]

 
Looks like it's almost time for a new thread.

I just went back and counted, this is at least thread #4 or 5 discussing DN.

:notgood:

Has anyone looked an unsolved murders in the immediate area where he has lived? Or do you believe he suddently morphed from a flasher and person with uncontrolled anger to a person in complete control with the girls?

Do you think that someone who wildly jumped out of a car to wield a hatchet at someone is the same cold calculating person that managed to calmly lead two innocent young teens off a bridge and murder them?

Calmly directed down the hill.

Sheriff Leazenby stated last week at this stage they have nothing to connect him to the murders...nothing concrete. (Scroll back for link).

A person who is wild and reactionary vs a person who is calm and directing.
I don't think that voice is calm and directing especially if it is accompanied with a gun and hatchet.
Nothing concrete means to me they have something but unsubstantiated at present, otherwise they would say we have nothing and clear him wouldn't they? Why keep a POI twisting in the wind like this if it is in their power to clear him. I don't understand LE modus operandi and am waiting for him to be included or excluded as a suspect.
 
Very true and is why I don't put much weight into KN and employer saying he resembles the sketch as it is possible numerous other people have come forward saying the same but since they were not named POI at this time, nothing public has been shared about these calls.

Has anyone been able to come up with a good reason why DN would choose to go to Delphi, assuming he was able to get there? As others have said, something linking him to the area would give more credibility to his connection, IMO.

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RBBM

I keep wondering about the trails and the bridge.

We know DN liked hiking and being in nature. It’s possible that while at a job site in IN someone mentioned to him ‘oh, you like hiking? Have you ever been to Delphi and walked the trails near there Monon High Bridge?’ It could have been a casual acquaintance at a job, they may not have even known each other’s names, and the person might not remember they even had that conversation, especially if it had been a long time before February.

Or DN could have heard two or more other people in a group discussing the trails/bridge and thought it would be cool to check out sometime. Again, it may not register with the person(s) who were discussing the trails that they said it in front of DN.

I’m still so frustrated we can’t rule anything in or out. Pure speculation. Nothing about the trails may have been said to or overheard by DN. This is like putting together a 10,000 piece puzzle without having a picture or any edge pieces, and every piece has a similar pattern.

:banghead:
 
I’ve said it before.. I’ll say it again.

Two people did this crime. One person had knowledge of the area and was the master mind. The other went along perhaps not knowing how far this was going to go.

Both met at a homeless camp. Person #1 can’t be fingered unless #2 blabs.

#2 isn’t going to admit anything. He was perhaps disgusted by the events yet he participated nonetheless. He isn’t going to volunteer anything unless un refutable proof by LE is given. THEN he’ll want a deal.

Since #1 is the main master mind and sicko it is his DNA at the scene.

MOO of course!!!!!

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Looks like it's almost time for a new thread.

I just went back and counted, this is at least thread #4 or 5 discussing DN.

:notgood:

Has anyone looked an unsolved murders in the immediate area where he has lived? Or do you believe he suddently morphed from a flasher and person with uncontrolled anger to a person in complete control with the girls?

Do you think that someone who wildly jumped out of a car to wield a hatchet at someone is the same cold calculating person that managed to calmly lead two innocent young teens off a bridge and murder them?

Calmly directed down the hill.

Sheriff Leazenby stated last week at this stage they have nothing to connect him to the murders...nothing concrete. (Scroll back for link).

A person who is wild and reactionary vs a person who is calm and directing.

For me what makes DN such a bizarre suspect is that everything we know about him can be used roughly equally to say that he either is or is not a viable suspect in this crime.

Like, I know there's no way to place DN anywhere near Delphi on February 13th, but it bothers me to no end that nobody seems to be able to place him ANYWHERE, at any time, on February 13th.

He could have killed someone in freaking Missouri on 2/13 with as little as we know about his whereabouts that day.

If you don't find all of this compelling it's no biggie, but I certainly do.
 
For me what makes DN such a bizarre suspect is that everything we know about him can be used roughly equally to say that he either is or is not a viable suspect in this crime.

Like, I know there's no way to place DN anywhere near Delphi on February 13th, but it bothers me to no end that nobody seems to be able to place him ANYWHERE, at any time, on February 13th.

He could have killed someone in freaking Missouri on 2/13 with as little as we know about his whereabouts that day.

If you don't find all of this compelling it's no biggie, but I certainly do.

There's a quote above from LE that says they will alert the public if he is.

Still waiting for that alert.
 
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