IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #75

[Ember123]

The more I learn of timelines, in this and other cases, the more I realize we are in for a very much longer than anticipated wait. Patience is a virtue ...and not my strong suit. We may well be looking at a long winter (of discontent!) if LE doesn't come out with an update soon. Wish they would at least give us something to go on and clue us in as to whether they feel DN IS or IS NOT BG. Is that too much to ask??? Yet I realize they are The Pros and we mere Sleuthers Of Limited Resource given that we have far less info than they.

This case is so baffling. The WHO and WHY of it so confounding. The pics alone : of BG on thd bridge (Libby's HEROIC insight!) ... the Sketch (looking like it was taken right from a mugshot) ... and the POI: DN. These pics alone are fodder for MUCH argument and disparity of viewpoint because they at times look SO similar while different enough to also pose the possibility they are not, in fact, alike.

A major stumbling block I keep running up against is simply the way BG appears to age 20+ years from one frame to the next. That alone challenges any sense of certainty I might hope to have.

And yet, the Sketch, to me, is almost a tracing of several of DN's mugshots. (Is there someone out there with a closer likeness?) Or, Could a witness have seen DN in the vicinity (or chosrn him from among mugshots?) and yet he not actually be BG?

I may go back to the Image Thread (with DN now in mind ) and try to look at things anew. Based on upcoming court dates etc, anyone got any guesses as to when we might gain a little more insight here?

Any why no info on Tim W's case? Does LE's handling of that case tell us anything about the likelihood (or not) thst DN has any connection to Delphi? What Say YOU??? ( Tearing my hair out!!! )

 

[Daey34]

I can't figure this out. Assuming the car is registered to KN, she would have been able to drive away with it if she had valid 1 license, 2 registration, and 3 insurance. We know she did not have number 2, as the tags were expired. Most likely, she did not have 3 insurance either. But whether the car was taken for investigation into TW's murder or taken due to her invalid registration (and presumably lack of insurance), we do not know.

Once the vehicle was in LE's possession, they obviously obtained evidence to investigate the menacing incidents and TW's murder. From there, they could have also looked for evidence of A&L's murders.

If evidence was found to incriminate DN in any of the above crimes (not just murder), then LE would still have the car, right?

If nothing was found, KN could get it back. But usually only with the above credentials. She would need to show valid license, insurance etc. She'd also have to pay for the days it was impounded. If it's $30 a day, which is nothing, the total is now $1800. Some states only hold the car for 30 days before making the car available for sale, which Colorado does.

Then again, the car could have been on a loan that was never paid off and has since been sent out for repossession, or it could be stolen/ not even registered to KN in the first place.

You don't get it back if it is evidence though right?
Also, insurance companies and LE may not be too happy with car owners letting someone drive the car with no licence, so perhaps it's best LE don't release it back at all, in case another felon drives it. Some people don't seem to realise the gravity of that situation at all IMO.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

It is frustrating.
Do you believe that the girls stumbled onto something they shouldn't have and that"s why they were murdered? What do you think that might be, that would make someone murder 2 young girls for?

I don't know what it would be. I think the girls would have talked about something IF they saw something bad?

 

[Shiressleuth]

So we have a court date coming up for DN on Wednesday. What is expected to happen then?

 

[FrostedGlass]

It is frustrating.
Do you believe that the girls stumbled onto something they shouldn't have and that"s why they were murdered? What do you think that might be, that would make someone murder 2 young girls for?

I think the girls were not the intended targets and I think drugs are somehow involved. I do not think the girls had anything to do with the drugs.

I do not think it was a sexual assualt. For me, LE re-affirmed that when they were pleading for someone to come forward with info and they said: "We can possibly stop this from happening again to your daughter or your mother or sister or anybody, it could be your brother or father as well."

8:48mm http://fox59.com/2017/08/14/lead-de...ave-more-audio-from-teens-phone-dna-evidence/

I think there was at least one person at the bottom of the hill and the girls saw that person, possibly knew them. Maybe that's why they didn't run while still on the end of the bridge. I'm not even 100% convinced that BG was the one who actually killed them.

However, a couple of things are making me re-consider the cyber aspect. One is the shout-out from Plainfield LE to Delphi during the announcement that the Brial Kil case was solved. It was such strange timing. He said: "I just want to tell the people of Delphi that their case, too, will be solved with these gentlemen, their agencies behind them. You can see that they just don't ever give up."

26mm http://fox59.com/2017/08/06/attorney-to-announce-federal-charges-in-plainfield-cyber-threats-case/

The other thing is Abby's mom's recent interview where she recalls first seeing the pic of Abby on the bridge, saying she thought: 'OH! She's in soo much trouble.' If Abby was not allowed on the bridge, what made her go over it that day? (Sorry I don't have the link but it was posted on here.)

With all that said, so far, all theories (IMO) have way too many loose ends.

 

[Scarlett12]

Having had some limited contact with Carrie , I just want her to know that I’m thinking of her this Holiday season. I hope and pray for justice and closure for Carrie. Her grace and quiet strength are very admirable.

I believe she reads WS , as she is also a member of many FB groups.

( Carrie., I am the gal who sent you something from your “team”.. a team I dislike.. trying to be vauge here...)


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[kkdj]

I don't know what it would be. I think the girls would have talked about something IF they saw something bad?

I'm still pretty stuck on some sort of sexual agenda and the violence and control and fear and rage were huge turn ons for the perp. I'm also pretty stuck on DN being the violent controlling rageful pervert that did this. That is DN's mo. I hope I'm wrong about the SA but it's what makes sense to me. sorry

 

[foxbluff]

POLL RESULTS RE: BRIDGE GUY - Survey Taken From 10/21/2017 - 11/11/2017 Participates: 31.

1. Bridge Guy: serial killer or no?
Serial Killer(14) No(10) Undecided(7)

2. Local (25 mi radius), semi local (50-75 mi) or non local?
Local(5) Semi Local(11) Non Local(10) Transient(3) Undecided(2)

3. What age range do you believe he is?
30-45; 30-50; 30-50; mid-30s; 35-40; 30s; 35-50; 18-45; 35-50; 30-50; 35-50; 45-55; 25-35; 35-40; 45-55; 30-55; 35-55; 35-60; 30-40; Not-a-Day-over 30; 40-55; 45-50; 47ish; 50-55;; 35-45; 28-36; Approaching 40; 30-45; 38-57; 35-45; (1)Undecided

4. Homeless or not?
Homeless(3) Not Homeless(23) Sometimes Homeless(1) Undecided(4)

5. Planned attack or spontaneous?
Planned(19) Spontaneous(9) Undecided(2) NotAnswered(1)

6. Lone wolf or accomplice (s)?
Lone Wolf(20) Accomplice(s)(2) Undecided(9)


(Source: Survey started by Boggled-in-Ohio at Thread #72 Pg. #56 Post #828 - Posters' answers on Pgs. 56-59. Answers picked up again on Thread#74 Pg.19 Post#273 and ran from Pg.19-29, ending w/Post#422. Data compiled by Foxbluff.)

 

[foxbluff]

RE: POLL RESULTS

My apologies that this is so hard to read! I had copied/pasted the results from Word. I have tried (3) times to Edit Post to make more spaces between answers, but have failed! Sorry...

 

[Jax49]

RE: POLL RESULTS

My apologies that this is so hard to read! I had copied/pasted the results from Word. I have tried (3) times to Edit Post to make more spaces between answers, but have failed! Sorry...

Thanks Foxbluff. Looks like a lot of work.

I can read it all easily, except the ages. Spread from twenties to sixty???

 

[EmmaRose]

RE: POLL RESULTS

My apologies that this is so hard to read! I had copied/pasted the results from Word. I have tried (3) times to Edit Post to make more spaces between answers, but have failed! Sorry...

Please don't feel you have to apologize--you did a great job!! It was interesting to read the results.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I'm still pretty stuck on some sort of sexual agenda and the violence and control and fear and rage were huge turn ons for the perp. I'm also pretty stuck on DN being the violent controlling rageful pervert that did this. That is DN's mo. I hope I'm wrong about the SA but it's what makes sense to me. sorry

https://www.mykawartha.com/news-story/4252592-why-do-men-expose-themselves-to-get-a-reaction/

“There is evidence that they will continue to do this,” he explains. “About half of the men who are actually convicted of indecent exposure will commit a similar crime a year or two later.”

The good news, if there is any in all this, is that the majority of flashers rarely go on to commit more serious crimes in terms of sexual assault.

“You would think of them as potential for high risk for doing so but the numbers really don’t bear that out,” Dr. Humphreys explains.

“In terms of the best reaction that anyone can have when this episode occurs is have fairly decent sense of the fact that these people aren’t there to attack you, usually, and it won’t progress to anything that involves touching the victim.
-.-.-.-
IF it is DN who is responsible for the murders of the girls I could imagine he acted on his rage/hate/frustration/disappointment on women (his violent drug addicted mother, his separated but proudly pregnant wife KN, his female ex employers, etc.) and he went crazy. Then I also could imagine him trying to humiliate the girls by forcing them to take off their clothing (part of it). Hopefully the real SA failed to materialize. Hopefully he wasn't even able.

 

[Shiressleuth]

POLL RESULTS RE: BRIDGE GUY - Survey Taken From 10/21/2017 - 11/11/2017 Participates: 31.

1. Bridge Guy: serial killer or no?
Serial Killer(14) No(10) Undecided(7)

2. Local (25 mi radius), semi local (50-75 mi) or non local?
Local(5) Semi Local(11) Non Local(10) Transient(3) Undecided(2)

3. What age range do you believe he is?
30-45; 30-50; 30-50; mid-30s; 35-40; 30s; 35-50; 18-45; 35-50; 30-50; 35-50; 45-55; 25-35; 35-40; 45-55; 30-55; 35-55; 35-60; 30-40; Not-a-Day-over 30; 40-55; 45-50; 47ish; 50-55;; 35-45; 28-36; Approaching 40; 30-45; 38-57; 35-45; (1)Undecided

4. Homeless or not?
Homeless(3) Not Homeless(23) Sometimes Homeless(1) Undecided(4)

5. Planned attack or spontaneous?
Planned(19) Spontaneous(9) Undecided(2) NotAnswered(1)

6. Lone wolf or accomplice (s)?
Lone Wolf(20) Accomplice(s)(2) Undecided(9)


(Source: Survey started by Boggled-in-Ohio at Thread #72 Pg. #56 Post #828 - Posters' answers on Pgs. 56-59. Answers picked up again on Thread#74 Pg.19 Post#273 and ran from Pg.19-29, ending w/Post#422. Data compiled by Foxbluff.)

So most people think it is planned by a semi/non local, non-transient, middle-aged, lonewolf, serial killer. :scared: .

Many thanks fox for all this work.

May not be DN then as he only fits two or three of those perhaps. (semi/non local, lonewolf, non-transient sort of, sk?)

 

[cluciano63]

I think if DN was the guy, it would not take months to determine this and charge him. I don't know why LE would lead the public on, especially if they knew they had the right suspect in custody where he can't hurt any more children. Jmo it is bordering on ridiculous to think he is BG. But...JMOJMOJMOJMO

 

[newredtabby]

I think if DN was the guy, it would not take months to determine this and charge him. I don't know why LE would lead the public on, especially if they knew they had the right suspect in custody where he can't hurt any more children. Jmo it is bordering on ridiculous to think he is BG. But...JMOJMOJMOJMO

Except, it would be JUST as ridiculous that LE knows it ISN'T DN, and says they cannot rule him out, so........


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[foxbluff]

Thanks Foxbluff. Looks like a lot of work.

I can read it all easily, except the ages. Spread from twenties to sixty???

Ty Jax... and yes it was more difficult than I had originally thought...but isn't everything!?

Basically, except for the age ranges, this was a multiple choice survey which should have been easily collated. However, there simply were not enough choices to choose from so posters "wrote in" new answer categories. Additionally, a couple of posters gave (2) theories (which were very interesting), but left me feeling I needed to choose one theory over the other in order not to mess up the averages. (Btw, I went with the first theory given.)

Just another little tidbit of note here: The poll creator, BoggledInOhio, expressed the belief that BG is a SERIAL KILLER just before presenting us with the survey. Given that s/he didn't participate in taking the survey, s/he is not included in the 31 posters who did participate. Decisions, decisions, ...

Yes, you're right about the spread in age ranges given...25 y.o. was the youngest age given and 60 y.o. was the oldest age given.

Btw, (3) posters gave age range of 30-50(median age 40);
(3) posters gave age range of 35-50(median age 42.5);
(2) posters gave age 30-45(median age 37.5);
(2) posters gave 35-40(median age 37.5);
(2) posters gave 45-55(median age 50). I believe these were all the duplications in age ranges given.

ETA: I see now that a number of posters have left kind remarks. Thank you!

 

[foxbluff]

So most people think it is planned by a semi/non local, non-transient, middle-aged, lonewolf, serial killer. :scared: .

Many thanks fox for all this work.

May not be DN then as he only fits two or three of those perhaps. (semi/non local, lonewolf, non-transient sort of, sk?)

I can only speak for myself, of course, but even though I think DN is BG, I answered the questions based on what I've thought of BG all along (prior to DN). It's my opinion that many other posters did so as well...because, for instance, I know of 5 or 6 posters who, like me, believe DN is BG and yet they had answers like "not homeless" which doesn't reflect DN.

And btw only one poster actually mentioned the initials "DN." Which of course only tells me that that particular poster was answering the questions related to DN.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I think if DN was the guy, it would not take months to determine this and charge him. I don't know why LE would lead the public on, especially if they knew they had the right suspect in custody where he can't hurt any more children. Jmo it is bordering on ridiculous to think he is BG. But...JMOJMOJMOJMO

Have you seen the posts that show that ISP is waiting on results in 92 cases and how long results are taking? LE won't know for months regarding any POi's, never mind the only named one we have. That is the only ridiculous thing about this case IMO, so DN will not be excluded any time soon.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I can only speak for myself, of course, but even though I think DN is BG, I answered the questions based on what I've thought of BG all along (prior to DN). It's my opinion that many other posters did so as well...because, for instance, I know of 5 or 6 posters who, like me, believe DN is BG and yet they had answers like "not homeless" which doesn't reflect DN.

And btw only one poster actually mentioned the initials "DN." Which of course only tells me that that particular poster was answering the questions related to DN.

So do you think if people chose homeless they believe DN is BG? He wasn't homeless as such - just temporarily estranged from KN. By March he was back with KN I think. So he wasn't fully homeless till May when they left for Co. I was just saying which majorities could match DN and not insinuating that meant the posters thought DN is BG. I thought that was remarkable, that's all.

 

[Daey34]

You are referring to the recent arrest of King in Indianapolis I believe. It took 16 months to complete testing and another 6 months to confirm a match.

"The director of the Indianapolis-Marion County lab couldn’t comment on the case specifically, but he did say the labs current backlog is 92 cases. He said that delays in any case can be caused by a number of factors and may not be due solely to that backlog."


http://fox59.com/2017/11/16/dna-lea...wheelchair-bound-victim-to-death-in-2014/amp/

Have you seen the posts that show that ISP is waiting on results in 92 cases and how long results are taking? LE won't know for months regarding any POi's, never mind the only named one we have. That is the only ridiculous thing about this case IMO, so DN will not be excluded any time soon.