IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #76

[Jax49]

Whose shoes are you talking about other than Libby's?

Timothy Watkins, the bicyclist DN is suspected of shooting in Colorado. moo

 

[Area52]

I think one at the trailhead near where the body was found and one on the side of the road. Last I heard they were working on a plea bargain. Unless there's some blockbuster dropped in court tomorrow I'd say it's 50/50 he's out on bail by the end of the day.

He has at least 2 Hold Writs from other jurisdictions. He's not walking anywhere by himself!


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[Don Frye]

I find it very odd I'm no longer allowed to post any detailed responses do to "Missing Security Token"? I have emailed the webmaster to no avail. How convenient.

 

[Boxer]

South Carolina, Florida, Indiana and Colorado are all 3 strike states - he should be away for a long time.

 

[Sleuthin' n TX]

Was it stated a loose shoe was found first? I certainly don't recall that. My recollect was one of the searchers asked the sister what colour of shoes Libby wore to assist in identifying the bodies that were found were indeed that of the two girls. Did I miss something?

ETA: Further, it was my impression the question was asked by the searcher to prevent the sister from involvement in the utterly traumatic act of personally viewing the dead bodies. There was absolutely no insinuation the shoe colour was evidence of sexual assault.

Sorry for any confusion but want to clarify that my response was because people were speculating if the shoes were not with her body and how that could happen...someone suggested running, another suggested mud from crossing the creek and my suggestion was from actually taking them off. Yes, the inference would be sexual assault but I don't believe that there was a SA due to time constraints and the perp possibly hearing people calling for them, etc. and recognized he had to leave. IMO

 

[Jax49]

Once the pitchfork comes out, is hard to put it back. Sadly.

Totally agree. After thread after thread of posters being absolutely, 100% positive RL was guilty...

moo

 

[Don Frye]

The big questions are why did they take the picture and why didn't they run away? The suspect had a history of living under bridges. It's entirely possible that he was living under/near the bridge and had met the girls before. They girls may have known him on some level because of previous encounters on the path. They may have taken the picture because they knew the guy and for whatever reason a picture was taken (maybe the girls where goofing around with him). Also if they had met him before they may have felt comfortable waiting for him to cross the bridge to chat rather than feeling threatened and not running away.

You are absolutely correct in your theory.

 

[Ember123]

I'm going to respectfully disagree with that line of thought. The sketch wasn't released till 5 months later. This is the reason LE gave:

Dated July 17th:
"Riley said the witness who saw the suspect was close enough to him to say that he did not have blue eyes, but was uncertain of his eye color. Riley said fear may have played a role in the witness' decision not to come forward sooner with a description of the suspect. "People are scared. They're scared to be recognized by the subject. It just takes a while for these things to happen," he said."
Source: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/07/17/indiana-police-to-release-new-evidence-in-killing-2-teens.html

Also, in a press conference when the sketch was released, ISP Riley slipped a couple times and said "she" before correcting himself when referring to the witness. Video below is not full press conference, but it includes these 'slips'. He does it 3 times between 1:07 and 1:15 mark.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/composite-sketch-released-killings-indiana-teens-48683961

In this clip from Dr. Phil, beginning 1:28 mark, MP refers to a single eyewitness, one person, who saw him "leaving that area around that time that day".
https://www.drphil.com/videos/murde...arch-efforts-the-day-their-teens-disappeared/

I always concluded the "she" witness was an adult female. I also was under the impression the trail was fairly quiet that day, making it feel more isolated. However, after watching Dr Phil and hearing Abby's mom say that there were a lot of kids on the trail that day (but Libby & Abby were there in a lull) and that they had spoken to many of them, I'm wondering if this female witness was another teen and because of what happened to the girls she was terrified to speak up. I can envision this much more readily now vs an adult female witness holding out so long. MOO

Kizzy-Your last paragraph here ... WOW! I think you're on to something!

 

[minazoe]

Were charges ever filed on the pig slaughtering? He is known as "hatchet man" because people have recently coined a term to encapsulate some of his recent alleged activity. He has not been charged with actually killing anyone with a hatchet.

he was accused publicly when members of a family who took in KN and DN and tried to help them gave interviews and told reporters that DN kept a hatchet and threatened and chased them with it, he was known to carry a hatchet. He frightened and intimidated them, keyed their car, which they have video of , and that two of their pigs turned up slaughtered and they believed this was DN's doing and a message he was sending.

Now I know you think BG is more of a Dennis Rader type, methodical and cunning, you see someone who appears older at first glance, you have to study the photo more, then look at DN's physique in the truck keying incident, you can see that he can bulk up quite a bit. I know you think this was a rage type of thing and that rage doesn't equate with cunning.

but consider this,

DN ( even though he is endlessly arrested everywhere he goes) tries to be sneaky and controlled at times, he's a liar and can write fairly well, so what if he's both? Ted Bundy committed crimes of tremendous rage, but also planned his crimes travelled to commit them and could commit stunning murders in broad daylight, making his victims simply disappear almost slight of hand.

Parks can be creepy.. once I was in a national park and a man was watching my friend and i , we were two young women out shooting photographs,

he swung around us a couple of times, warning us to stay away from a croc area...something about him..I looked at my friend and screamed RUN!!!! like a maniac...we ran out of that park so fast...

something just hit me..

you have to have your radar up...even in the most beautiful places.

so if

DN didn't live under bridges
didnt look just like the sketch
was never known to have a hatchet
was never a SO who travelled distances to commit his crimes
was never seen keying a car
was never known to live in the woods and spend his time in the woods
was never known to be violent with women and around children
had never harmed a woman
hadnt the eye and hair color of the killer
hadn't been effectively missing the day of the crime with no proof of his whereabouts
hadn't actually run away when investigators came checking on him
hadnt actually run away when the sketch came out
hadnt written incriminating letters with boldfaced lies and omissions..


if...

MOO

 

[drama_farmer]

Hi, Daey,

One more inconsistency: KN said DN watched the news with her and commented that the girls’ murder was ‘disgusting’. If what KN said is true, how can (1) DN not know where Delphi is and (2) he would have heard about the murders prior to his arrest in CO, not after like the letter claims.

I don’t know if DN wrote the letter.
I’m still on the fence as to whether or not DN = BG.

But based on the inconsistency I noted above, provided DN is the author of the letter, one of them is caught in a lie. Makes me question which one, and why?

BBM

This type of inconsistency may not be an outright lie. Allow me to step into my "devil's advocate" asbestos coveralls:

I think we've all had situations where we are interested in a certain topic or news segment, and our significant other (or any person sharing our physical space) isn't really paying attention or enthused about it or engaged at all. When asked to comment, they may respond with a one word answer or just a nod, even if they didn't hear the actual question/comment. It's uncanny how people who have known each other for a time can infer what the answer should be just based on the tone of voice/inflection of the questioner.

Sort of a "I know you could hear me, but you weren't really listening" sort of encounter.
Just a thought. . . I recall many similar situations with my ex-husband! :whoosh:

 

[InMyOpinion999]

The big questions are why did they take the picture and why didn't they run away? The suspect had a history of living under bridges. It's entirely possible that he was living under/near the bridge and had met the girls before. They girls may have known him on some level because of previous encounters on the path. They may have taken the picture because they knew the guy and for whatever reason a picture was taken (maybe the girls where goofing around with him). Also if they had met him before they may have felt comfortable waiting for him to cross the bridge to chat rather than feeling threatened and not running away.

I recall Sgt. Holeman stating in an interview that the audio recorded included things girls talk about and also the girls mentioning a guy following them. IMO they did not know this guy. At all.

 

[LostInAustin]

I find it very odd I'm no longer allowed to post any detailed responses do to "Missing Security Token"? I have emailed the webmaster to no avail. How convenient.

[emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23]

No one is allowed to edit posts after an hour. Don't get paranoid; you're not special!

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[Don Frye]

[emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23]



No one is allowed to edit posts after an hour. Don't get paranoid; you're not special!

Sent from my LG-D415 using Tapatalk

Copy that. Special?, I hope not.

 

[Krwiley60]

True fact: grieving parents learn to create their own little worlds. People were like, "How were you able to get up and talk at his funeral? Do those interviews? Be on that news show? etc. etc." You learn to do it because you learn how to fake being "normal." I could tell ANYONE about his death, describe all the events of that day-even what his body looked like as lividity started setting in-without blinking an eye. People around me were falling apart but I never cried as I spoke to them. It's because I honestly felt like I was living outside myself, just watching a movie. I could laugh, volunteer on my oldest son's field trips, sing Christmas carols, tell jokes, go listen to music with friends, etc. and put on a REAL good public image. I certainly played the public part well. At home, however, it was a different story. Sheer terror. My husband and I would stay up all night, unwilling to go to sleep because we were too depressed to wake up in the morning. We hated facing new days. We talked about different ways we could commit suicide-ways that would be quick and painless and not too messy to clean up. I honestly believe that the only reason we didn't is because we had a surviving son and, four months later, I got pregnant with our daughter. Her pregnancy pretty much saved our lives.

My point, and I do have one, is that the inner workings of a bereaved parent are strange. It's weird what we would react to and what we wouldn't. I could sit there and tell a total stranger about how it took the coroner 6 hours to get to the hospital, because I live in a small town and he was out hunting. And how, while I waited, I sat there and dabbled away at the tiny blood droplets. I could talk about that in a scientific way. But you look at me and tell me that it was "all part of God's plan" or that he was "in a better place" and I would absolutely go ballistic on you.

Sorry, I don't normally talk about these things but watching the families today just kind of brought some of that out. I wouldn't read too much into what they know or what their expressions were or how they said something or didn't say something (and I know you didn't, Rocket, so this wasn't aimed at you).

God Bless you...


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[2Hope4]

Respectively, the color of the shoes is the exact thing that was asked in the Dr. Phil interview. I did not make that up. It was stated by Kelsi. I posted as it was happening and have included the clips from the Dr Phil show. Whether a poster believes that or not is up to them, but the fact remains it was stated in the show.

 

[Jax49]

Respectively, the color of the shoes is the exact thing that was asked in the Dr. Phil interview. I did not make that up. It was stated by Kelsi. I posted as it was happening and have included the clips from the Dr Phil show. Whether a poster believes that or not is up to them, but the fact remains it was stated in the show.

Thank you. I thought I remembered it as you describe, then I doubted myself when I watched a clip and it didn't include the "color of shoes" question. moo

 

[MistyWaters]

Sorry for any confusion but want to clarify that my response was because people were speculating if the shoes were not with her body and how that could happen...someone suggested running, another suggested mud from crossing the creek and my suggestion was from actually taking them off. Yes, the inference would be sexual assault but I don't believe that there was a SA due to time constraints and the perp possibly hearing people calling for them, etc. and recognized he had to leave. IMO

I posted this a bit later, correcting my recall. Kelsi wasn't asked the colour of the shoes, she offered the information. No apology necessary from you. My only intent was to prevent speculation from churning into fact.

Below is a direct quote regarding what was said about the shoes. Other than speculation on this thread, I'm not aware of any source that indicates the shoes were found close to the bodies. Anyone?

"......Kelsi recalled the searchers yelled up the hill to her from the murder scene, asking if she knew what the girls were wearing. Kelsi yelled back the color of Libby's shoes.

"We found them," Kelsi recalled them yelling to her.

But she wasn't allowed to go to the girls. Neither were Libby's grandparents, Mike and Becky Patty, with whom she lived, or Williams' mother....."
http://www.jconline.com/story/news/...-tips-catch-libby-and-abbys-killer/949182001/

 

[Jax49]

I posted this a bit later, correcting my recall. Kelsi wasn't asked the colour of the shoes, she offered the information. No apology necessary from you. My only intent was to prevent speculation from churning into fact.

Based on my first listen and 2Hope4's "live" posts, your original memory was correct. I definitely remember it being said on Dr. Phil that she was asked specifically about shoes. moo

 

[Rott Mom]

No, not at all. I didn't see any tension between them. Yes, she said Abby was going to be grounded but why would that mean tension between the families to you? And I'm wondering what relevance that would have to the case. I can't imagine what these families are going through. It must be a roller coaster of emotions.

I can't even imagine also what these families are going through. My bad...I've been reading too many rumors. I apologize.

 

[Rott Mom]

You wanna know the first thought that went through MY head when I found my son?

"Great. Now the whole day is ruined-and it was supposed to be a NICE day!"

Here's the thing...when something horrific happens, you go into "survival mode." It's like your brain literally can't process what you're seeing or feeling so it causes some dissonance. It's the only way to get you through the moment.

Seconds after having that thought, I totally freaked out and panicked. Screaming, running around, pulling my hair, etc. But for at least 2-3 seconds, it was like I wasn't even totally aware of what I was looking at. Later that night, when friends came to the house to clean and cook us dinner, I was embarassed by the fact that we didn't have a potato peeler. I'd spent the whole day planning my child's funeral yet, there I was, stressing about kitchen appliances.

You have very little control over your thoughts at a time like that. Your brain is trying to protect you by ignoring what's going on. I can TOTALLY understand the gut reaction of "she is so grounded" upon seeing that picture. Better to think about her being home and grounded, and SAFE, than to entertain the idea of her being dead.

I cannot even imagine - God Bless You!