IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #76

[MistyWaters]

It was Libby's grandmother....and she never said cellphones....

https://www.drphil.com/videos/murde...arch-efforts-the-day-their-teens-disappeared/

Thank you for the clarification!

 

[kkdj]

I totally agree. It's hard to imagine what they thought at that point. Small town, no one could have imagined this outcome. I bet when the decision was made to shut down the search for the night, MOST people were convinced that they weren't there.

I can't see them getting to that location at night though...

Idk. A worried parent/grandparent can move mountains!
I just don't think they were there that night. It makes better logic to me that they were there the next day and not that night.

 

[Yougottabekiddingme]

Idk. A worried parent/grandparent can move mountains!
I just don't think they were there that night. It makes better logic to me that they were there the next day and not that night.

I don't think the perp dumped them there in the middle of the night. There's video somewhere of a half hour interview with the lead detective in the case. He was very tight-lipped but you could glean some clues from what he was saying. He mentioned them having to walk across the creek. There must have been evidence of that. I don't think they were brought back there and marched across the creek in the middle of the night. I feel like whatever happened, did not last long, and this guy was already out of there by the time Libby's father came to look for them. Where they were located was not anywhere near any trail either, hence not being found that night.

 

[kkdj]

I don't think the perp dumped them there in the middle of the night. There's video somewhere of a half hour interview with the lead detective in the case. He was very tight-lipped but you could glean some clues from what he was saying. He mentioned them having to walk across the creek. There must have been evidence of that. I don't think they were brought back there and marched across the creek in the middle of the night. I feel like whatever happened, did not last long, and this guy was already out of there by the time Libby's father came to look for them. Where they were located was not anywhere near any trail either, hence not being found that night.

I thought it was stated that they were found at the end of the trail, on the edge of RL's property. And I didn't say I thought they marched across the creek in the middle of the night, nor dumped there in the middle of the night, but rather there the next day . I'm not stuck on this theory, it just seems more logical to me.

 

[Yougottabekiddingme]

I thought it was stated that they were found at the end of the trail, on the edge of RL's property. And I didn't say I thought they were dumped there in the middle of the night, but rather the next day. I'm not stuck on this theory, it just seems more logical to me.

Middle of the night is the only other time that would make sense. Searchers arrived at 7:30 AM and they were found at about noon. Unless you're suggesting it's logical to bring them back to the area, either already deceased or alive with the intent to kill them, while there is a full scale search operation underway.

They were found in a wooded area that was about a half mile from the north end of the bridge on land, much closer to the south end BUT on the north side of the creek. Very close to the spot where the picture of BG was taken, is a hill that leads down into some woods and rough terrain (not necessarily a trail), and takes you to the creek bed. They were found on the other side of the creek from there. I think the searchers that found them accessed the area from the rear of RL's property.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Yes, you've proven a Sun reporter wrote "creepy stalker" however it's not a direct quote from LE therefore it cannot be assumed to be factual. Unless you have reason to believe this certain reporter has an inside scoop to LE, it's not unusual for reporters to use creative descriptions to make their reports more dramatic and the Sun has a reputation for that.

TY for acknowledging I've proved it. The Sun is MSM. BG is a creepy stalker -fact.

 

[FindHG]

TY for acknowledging I've proved it. The Sun is MSM. BG is a creepy stalker -fact.

At best, a Sun fact. I'd have to agree with MistyW.

 

[Jerrod]

Middle of the night is the only other time that would make sense. Searchers arrived at 7:30 AM and they were found at about noon. Unless you're suggesting it's logical to bring them back to the area, either already deceased or alive with the intent to kill them, while there is a full scale search operation underway.

They were found in a wooded area that was about a half mile from the north end of the bridge on land, much closer to the south end BUT on the north side of the creek. Very close to the spot where the picture of BG was taken, is a hill that leads down into some woods and rough terrain (not necessarily a trail), and takes you to the creek bed. They were found on the other side of the creek from there. I think the searchers that found them accessed the area from the rear of RL's property.

That was another early misconception that's since been corrected. (Even Becky Patty made reference on the program to it being a half-mile.) The distance from the north end of the bridge to the north bank crime scene is roughly 1000'. It's noticably shorter from the south end. (The distance from the trailhead, though, is indeed a half-mile.) That's been confirmed by various videos and images of the spot where the yellow crime scene tape appears, which verifies your last two sentences. Indeed, a section of Mr. Logan's 40-acre property abuts the Delphi Cemetery, which is where the majority of the LE and searchers' vehicles were parked, and from where the crime scene was accessed. It's unclear where Kelsi was standing when she & the searchers were exchanging information about the girls' attire. Note the shallowness of the creek in picture #2. (The U-shape in the top right corner of picture #1 is the cemetery road.)

 

[FindHG]

That was another early misconception that's since been corrected. (Even Becky Patty made reference on the program to it being a half-mile.) The distance from the north end of the bridge to the north bank crime scene was roughly 1000'. It was much shorter from the south end. (The distance from the trailhead, though, is indeed a half-mile.) That's been confirmed by various videos and images of the spot where the yellow crime scene tape is shown, which verifies your last two sentences. Indeed, a section of Mr. Logan's 40-acre property abuts the Delphi Cemetery, which is where the majority of the LE and searchers' vehicles were parked, and accessed the crime scene. It's unclear where Kelsi was standing when she & the searchers were communicating information about the girls'attires.

Thank you for this, Jerrod.

 

[Shiressleuth]

We also don't know that the three frames that were released are in sequence.

But LE has seen the video. If it was known that BG limped it would seem to be important descriptive information to have been released in seeking leads from somebody who knows him.

It was just a theory pulled out of a hat. A reason they could withhold speaking about a limp the suspect might have.
So when so and so called in their next door neighbor and said they thought he could be the suspect - as they were describing him to the detectives, when they mentioned he had a limp along with the rest of his description it would put that tip higher in line. (If the suspect did indeed have a limp that they know about).

This was all discussed fully in the image thread (link in post 1). Nin put the three pics in order based on the position of the tree, platform and cross beams and made a moving sequence. The point Kissy makes is important. Witholding whether he has a limp could help to prioritize tips. LE themselves may not be sure if it is a very short video, which is what I suspect, otherwise they would surely have shown a closer still to help identify the creepy stalker.

 

[Jennifer17]

This was talked about on Dr Phil as well. Amy's mom though the girls might've fallen somewhere along the trails and dropped their cellphones. Others were searching throughout the town. People were most certainly not searching for dead bodies that same evening.

Question - does anyone recall, did Amy's mom actually say " cellphones" or was I hearing things????

Who is Amy?

These girls are named Abby (Abigail) and Libby (Liberty) where does Amy fit in?

 

[FindHG]

This was all discussed fully in the image thread (link in post 1). Nin put the three pics in order based on the position of the tree, platform and cross beams and made a moving sequence. The point Kissy makes is important. Witholding whether he has a limp could help to prioritize tips. LE themselves may not be sure if it is a very short video, which is what I suspect, otherwise they would surely have shown a closer still to help identify the creepy stalker.

bbm

Not sure how anything you said before it bolsters your conclusion, "otherwise..."

 

[deedee21]

Gray Hughs did another video. Youtube Libby and Abby crime flow.

 

[Shiressleuth]

and then of course we all know that DN's mother was murdered in the house, then dragged out to the yard and covered with leaves.

I mean does it get any weirder?

MOO

No it doesn't. Similarities in the cases. Mug shot held back on arrest. Long time WS members never known that before. Big red flags imo.

 

[Shiressleuth]

bbm

Not sure how anything you said before it bolsters your conclusion, "otherwise..."

Its an either/or paragraph without a conclusion.

 

[jbelle]

No, neither LE or families have said that, but do you have another reason for killing two girls?

I agree. I have never seen a case like this that was not sexually motivated. Even on these threads for Abby and Libby people have posted cases as examples of ones that were not sexually motivated. Things like drug deals gone bad etc. But guess what each of those cases had in common? Whether the excuse given by the suspect was a drug deal witnessed or Dad owing drug money, every case linked on these threads as examples of non sexually motivated crimes against little girls included a sexual assault.

And no, saying I think the crime was sexually motivated is not disrespectful, we are all crime followers and adults. Going into graphic detail would be one thing but I think this would not be much of a crime forum if we could not discuss motive in a general way, especially the overwhelmingly more common one.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I thought LE stated that they believed the bodies had been or may have been moved. anyone remember or am I making stuff up again..? MOO

Well TW was shot and his body was dragged off a trail and hidden under leaves and twigs. There are similarities. This is fact that we know. I don't think TW would have been SA but that is MOO. It is my opinion therefore that these TW facts are the similarities. It may not be the same killer but, based on the fact LE said there are similarities and they hot footed it to Co and declared DN a POI, I am speculating that the girls were not SA, but were shot and dragged to a hiding place under leaves and twigs. What other similarities could there be?

 

[FindHG]

Gray Hughs did another video. Youtube Libby and Abby crime flow.

Great! Thank you, deedee21.

[video=youtube;8dkJ-U07So4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dkJ-U07So4[/video]

Fantastic! Much appreciated, Gray Hughs!

I agree about him not going back over the bridge and leaving some other way. It was said on Dr. Phil that there were a number ways he could have left the area.

It amazing awesome work you've all done. Thank you so very much for your time, care and precision.

 

[FindHG]

Its an either/or paragraph without a conclusion.

There's no logic to it just the same that I am able to discern. But it's late.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Per Dr. Phil interview:
1:30 drop-off
2:07 pictures posted
3:11 DG called Libby
3:14 DG started walking the trails
3:30 DG could not find, other family called
4:00 MP was called
5:15 Police were called by MP
6:00 Search was on

MP says witness saw suspect "leaving area around that time of day".
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, my point is, he had to have been seen before 3:14. Also, there have been at least 5 people identified as being in the area of the bridge who were questioned.


Perhaps the drawing is not from a witness at all.

Good time line at last after 10 months. Could you stick BG on the bridge in there at the 2.30 mark? (Based on the FBI poster)