IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #76

[Shiressleuth]

There's no logic to it just the same that I am able to discern. But it's late.

They could have withheld the limp as Kissy said. OR If they only have a very short far away video ( which I suspect otherwise they would have released closer pics) they, like us, may not be even sure he has a limp, so could withhold for that reason too. Is that more logical/sensible? Or more confusing? Sorry. :thinking:

 

[Shiressleuth]

I think LE said “witnesses” — and that sketch was made over several weeks.
IIRC the whole paragon discussion started as a way to try and prove that LE does have the US’s DNA.
IMO I think they do have the DNA AND witnesses but DN was not match, and the lack of matching DNA is the reason he was dropped from active consideration.

DN has been dropped from active consideration? Where did you see that? What about the similarities?

 

[FindHG]

They could have withheld the limp as Kissy said. OR If they only have a very short far away video ( which I suspect otherwise they would have released closer pics) they, like us, may not be even sure he has a limp, so could withhold for that reason too. Is that more logical/sensible? Or more confusing? Sorry. :thinking:

I'm sorry, no, I don't see how you conclude they were sure or unsure of a limp based on video they had or did not have. Still makes no sense, to me.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Makes me think the investigators can confidently say it’s only three words because they have the recording of the full speech from BG Libby recorded, and their investigators excerpted “down the hill.”

It sure did sound like “get down the hill” to me, too. Not sure that matters in the great scheme of things, though. Or does it? A simple “down the hill” without the words “get” or “go” doesn’t necessarily mean he’s directing them to go down a hill, which has been such a key point of the sleuthing here. In my opinion.

Perhaps he said " have you seen my dog down the hill" but the beginning was obscured by the rustling noise so all that is heard is "g down the hill".

 

[Steleheart]

What about BBM?

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Bolded By Me

RSBM = Respectfully snipped by me.

Check out the Websleuths Lingo thread for others.

 

[newredtabby]

The recorded "down the hill" has another word before it. I can't tell what it is, but it's there. Could it be: get, go, look, let's go, it's? It might not even matter what that word is, but it's bugging me.

No it doesn't. LE has been very clear the only words on the released recording are "down the hill".


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[Shiressleuth]

Could RL be the eyewitness who helped with the sketch? I would think if he was the eyewitness, he would be able to say yes or no to whether it was DN when shown a picture of him. However, if RL happened to be snockered when he saw BG, would he be considered a credible witness or credible enough to stake everything on? Does this even make sense? It does in my mind but we all know how that goes.:cuckoo:

What is "snockered" please?

 

[Steleheart]

What is "snockered" please?

:drink:

 

[Shiressleuth]

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[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]Hi Love Never Fails,[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]We know Abby and Libby had February 10th and 13th off school for unused snow days. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]We know Abby was at Libby’s house on February 13 and the girls asked to go to the trails. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]We know Libby’s sister dropped them off about 1:30 pm. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]We know they made it to the bridge and took at least one picture of and one picture on it. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]We know the picture of Abby on the bridge was uploaded to Snapchat with a time stamp of 2:07 pm. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]We know LE called Libby a hero for having the presence of mind to turn on her phone’s video recording. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]We know images of a POI we refer to as “Bridge Guy” (BG) were captured on that recording and made into still shots by LE. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]We know audio of the POI was captured also with the words “down the hill” released to the media. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]We know LE placed billboards in 46 of the 50 states (Alaska, Hawaii, Maine and Vermont do not allow billboards). At least one of the billboard layouts alludes to the POI being seen last at 2:30 pm, likely the time the video images of him were shot. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]We know Libby’s dad was supposed to pick them up around 3:00 pm. According to posts referring to the recent Dr. Phil show, he tried calling at 3:11 pm, then went to look on the trails. Not finding them, he notified other family members who assisted in the search. LE was notified at 5:15 pm and a large-scale search began at 6:00 pm. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]The girls were found at approximately 12:15 pm on February 14 in a wooded area near the MHB. [/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]If anyone can think of anything else we KNOW as FACT that isn’t speculation or theory, please bring it to my attention. I’m saving a draft of this in my notes and can add to it and repost as needed if that would be of help or interest to all of you.[/FONT][/FONT]

BG on the bridge at 2.30 p.m. (fbi billboards and flyer)
RL on video at the dump midday?

 

[Niner]

Kind of late getting back here - and another 300 posts I scanned! LOL!

Latest news regarding DN's Court Appearance today.
http://gazette.com/el-paso-prosecuto...rticle/1617288

per article:

Nations, 32, had been scheduled to enter a plea on charges of trespassing and menacing. Instead, his arraignment was postponed to Jan. 3 to allow further talks, Ratigan confirmed.
[.....]
No mention was made at the hearing that authorities are preparing charges against Nations in any other crimes, including the shooting death of Timothy Watkins of Palmer Lake, whose body was found Sept. 17 just off a popular hiking trail on Mount Herman.
[.....]
Indiana authorities also looked at Nations as a person of interest in an unsolved double murder that occurred on a trail, they confirmed, saying in a later statement he couldn't be linked or ruled out. Nations moved from Indiana to the Front Range with his family in May or June, his estranged wife told The Gazette. He has a criminal history that includes a sex offense.

So, I guess he didn't take a plea deal yet....

 

[newredtabby]

I thought it was stated that they were found at the end of the trail, on the edge of RL's property. And I didn't say I thought they marched across the creek in the middle of the night, nor dumped there in the middle of the night, but rather there the next day . I'm not stuck on this theory, it just seems more logical to me.

The bridge is the end of the trail, and they were found 1/2 mile from there. I highly doubt family searches went that far off trail in the dark.


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[leelee114]

This is my first post. I first came to this site after Lauren Spierer went missing, as it is close to where I live now. However I grew up very close to Delphi and have been following this case since it happened.



Can you clarify this for me please? Thanks.

Starts here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Liberty-German-14-Delphi-13-Feb-2017-73/page6

 

[Shiressleuth]

Couple of things that I took from the Dr Phil show (not sure if these were discussed here already or not):

1) Timeline has always given the impression that no one looked for these girls before 5:30. There was already a trouble flag at 3:30 - slightly more than an hour after the last known time that they were safe. I can't wrap my head around something God awful happening while folks were out there looking. Even if off in the distance...I think whatever happened was quick.

2) The sister, when flashing back to when the girls were found, saying that someone yelled up the hill "what were they wearing?" If you're looking for missing people and you find a body or bodies, you aren't asking this question. I think the searchers found clothes with them and could not easily distinguish exactly what they had stumbled upon. I got the impression that confirming the clothing was when they realized they found them.

Seeing the recent developments in the case of the Tinder date in Nebraska, I sure hope LE takes a look at that guy, if they haven't already.

That guy is too tall at 6 foot to be BG. It was discussed many pages back now though, so good thought.

 

[VTX88]

Does anyone remember if they had open casket funerals? I think if they were closed caskets then it’d be telling on whether a hatchet could be the murder weapon. If so maybe just that and the Indiana plates were enough to warrant a look by LE.

 

[Shiressleuth]

The sketch of BG appears older than DN.

My understanding of a Parabon snapshot is that it's unable to determine age so therefore it's estimated.

Maybe that's why Parabon keeps getting mentioned over and over again?

If we disbelieve absolutely everything LE has said, then I suppose we can make any theory fit. But what's the point of that?

I think the uncanny likeness of the sketch to DN is what has prompted the speculation that Parabon may have been used. You are right that P does not provide age so I think they used middle age as BG looks around 40. Now DN is only 32 but looks 10 years older-especially in his latest gaunt mugshot. So he looks even more like the sketch because of that. Personally, I don't think the sketch looks much older . If the sketch was coloured (e.g. reddish brown hair) I think it's his doppelganger.
AJMO

DN's possible plea deal

I think the assault was already dropped. He has trespassing, menacing, possession and reckless endangerment so what could it be?
Prosecution may be offering to drop the trespassing ( I have always believed that was KN's car he broke into and the assault was her being choked) leaving M, P and R. Defence probably want R dropped too. So I think he will plead guilty to M and P with time served coming off a minimum of 3 years. If these weapons (hatchet and 22) are not the weapons used in either the Co or In murders, then it would explain why he is happy to take a deal. I may be wrong though and it may be the T, M and R he will plead guilty too. Would that be less of a felony than the gun possession? What do others think?

Once sentenced, does he then come back to In or how does that work?

 

[kizzykat]

The bridge is the end of the trail, and they were found 1/2 mile from there. I highly doubt family searches went that far off trail in the dark.


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Per RL, searchers asked permission to search his property that evening. We don't know what part of his property they wanted to search, but it would seem they'd search the parcel between the cemetery and the creek. IMO, there are only two reasons I can think of the girls weren't seen in the dark: either they weren't there, or they were hidden somehow (by leaves/debris?) and not readily visible with flashlights. (For example: If you've ever seen anyone wearing camo in the woods, even in the daytime, this makes sense. You can be within a very short distance and if the person is staying still, no movements, you can't readily see them.) Others might think of other reasons they weren't seen that evening?

LOGAN: Yes, that`s true. I did not find out about it until after about 6:30 PM in the afternoon. People stopped here and asked for permission to go back on my property and said two girls were missing, and that`s the first I heard about it. It`s been a -- it`s been a -- OK.
Source: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1702/20/ptab.01.html

 

[Shiressleuth]

At best, a Sun fact. I'd have to agree with MistyW.

A MSM fact nonetheless. Are we now rating MSM facts? I was asked to provide a link. I did. I really don't care what people think of the Sun TBH. If it was the Daily Mail , it would nt make any difference to me. A reporter is a reporter.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I agree. I have never seen a case like this that was not sexually motivated. Even on these threads for Abby and Libby people have posted cases as examples of ones that were not sexually motivated. Things like drug deals gone bad etc. But guess what each of those cases had in common? Whether the excuse given by the suspect was a drug deal witnessed or Dad owing drug money, every case linked on these threads as examples of non sexually motivated crimes against little girls included a sexual assault.

And no, saying I think the crime was sexually motivated is not disrespectful, we are all crime followers and adults. Going into graphic detail would be one thing but I think this would not be much of a crime forum if we could not discuss motive in a general way, especially the overwhelmingly more common one.

The Weleetka (Taylor and Skylar) murders have similarities IMO (Kevin Sweat).

 

[Shiressleuth]

I'm sorry, no, I don't see how you conclude they were sure or unsure of a limp based on video they had or did not have. Still makes no sense, to me.

What we have seen may be all the video they have of him. Just one step.

 

[Shiressleuth]

:drink:

TY :laughing: