IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #79

[Shiressleuth]

Of course this is a discussion thread.

But letting LE know where the public stands on a matter is most definitely what they should be reading.

Change doesn't come about by venting on a forum that will do nothing to get your desired outcome.

Also fwiw, my original statement was in no way meant to be snarky but to give links to those who feel it might help.

I think that will be of help for locals to address their concerns to rather than posters on an international forum. What we say on here isn't going to change policies on the ground in Delphi, I think we all realise that.

 

[Shiressleuth]

In the beginning, I was almost certain this killer was someone local. Now given the size of the task force, the photo, the sketch and audio clip, I find it difficult to believe he hasn't been arrested if he lives in Delphi or nearby area. I still believe the killer has some connection past or present to this town. He was possibly here for a few years in school. Had a relative on a nearby farm and visited the town in the summers. Something. Whatever it is I believe it is very likely they are no longer in the area.

I still find it baffling given the amount of publicity, the amount of information from LE and the volume of LE resources devoted to this that it appears to be no closer to being solved. That Dr. Phil show left me with a depressing feeling that LE is grasping for a direction to go in this investigation.

It is reminding me of the Yorkshire Ripper investigation where tips and the investigation became enormous. When he was eventually caught they discovered he had been interviewed several times previously.

 

[Boxer]

While we are in rant mode:

Why did it take so long for LE to admit they found L's phone "in the general area" and to confirm they crossed the Creek?

If their phones were being pinged that first day why didn't it help locate them?

If they are obtaining phone data how close to the CS is it going to pin point a location for any perps?

Why wasn't an Amber alert declared straightaway?

Why was the search called off that first night?

Why nationwide billboards if perp was local?

Hi Shire,
Where did you see confirmation that they crossed the creek? I am interested.

Amber alerts are for vehicles - I know there was mention of a white car but I haven't seen the source materials. They have to have a vehicle to Amber Alert.

The missing girls were national news just hours after their disappearance - Obviously calling off the official search was a mistake. I completely remember thinking on 2/13, when I heard the girls were missing, "what is wrong with the police, do they really think the worst consequence is a 'cold night?'" I think everyone knew it was a mistake at the time. Family and friends searched through the night.

I don't know about billboards - I think the twist was LE had a photo of their assailant - I am pretty sure LE thought it was a good likeness and someone would call in so they blasted it. I agree with them too, IMHO if you knew BG you would see the resemblance and the posture.

 

[MistyWaters]

I’ve seen the Iowa case go the same exact way. They are so similar it is eery. I find it inexcusable that law enforcement hasn’t solved both. The fact they haven’t speaks volumes. The public will solve for them if they would lay cards on the table. I also find it pointless to have a forum with so many restrictions. You run out of things to discuss or speculate. Go look at the Iowa case if you want to know what this forum will look like soon. I’m interested in seeing what the Facebook or other forums offer at this point. So sad.

Just my opinion but it's highly unlikely anyone who doesn't personally know or isn't connected to the perp is able to solve any case. LE has access to everything on the internet, the same as we do. But they also have automated search programs to rapidly pull information.

But I think it's still very interesting to discuss ideas and speculation about what might have occured in order to sustain awareness. However I always try to remember real life tragedies are not the same as reality shows or a game of Clue. Sometimes the public never hears the full story nor is there always a satisfying ending, like in a movie or book where the perp is almost always caught.

JMO

 

[Boxer]

Just my opinion but it's highly unlikely anyone who doesn't personally know or isn't connected to the perp is able to solve any case. LE has access to everything on the internet, the same as we do. But they also have automated search programs to rapidly pull information.

But I think it's still very interesting to discuss ideas and speculation about what might have occured in order to sustain awareness. However I always try to remember real life tragedies are not the same as reality shows or a game of Clue. Sometimes the public never hears the full story nor is there always a satisfying ending, like in a movie or book where the perp is almost always caught.

JMO

True - and catching the killer will not be satisfying. Only a paltry form of justice.

 

[MistyWaters]

In the beginning, I was almost certain this killer was someone local. Now given the size of the task force, the photo, the sketch and audio clip, I find it difficult to believe he hasn't been arrested if he lives in Delphi or nearby area. I still believe the killer has some connection past or present to this town. He was possibly here for a few years in school. Had a relative on a nearby farm and visited the town in the summers. Something. Whatever it is I believe it is very likely they are no longer in the area.

I still find it baffling given the amount of publicity, the amount of information from LE and the volume of LE resources devoted to this that it appears to be no closer to being solved. That Dr. Phil show left me with a depressing feeling that LE is grasping for a direction to go in this investigation.

Sometimes I ponder, what if LE did the best they could to clarify the image of the man on the bridge but due to the original blurriness, the final result is not totally accurate. And what if the witnesses involved in creating the likeness of the sketch released months later offered the best of their recollect, but it's not very accurate either?

Might the photo and sketch have become a disadvantage to solving this case? Are people who might suspect who this person is looking too closely at the photo and sketch and convincing themselves they must be wrong?

It's just something I wonder about from time to time.

 

[JnRyan]

Sometimes I ponder, what if LE did the best they could to clarify the image of the man on the bridge but due to the original blurriness, the final result is not totally accurate. And what if the witnesses involved in creating the likeness of the sketch released months later offered the best of their recollect, but it's not very accurate either?

Might the photo and sketch have become a disadvantage to solving this case? Are people who might suspect who this person is looking too closely at the photo and sketch and convincing themselves they must be wrong?

It's just something I wonder about from time to time.

I also think about the Morgan Herrington murder in Charlottesville VA in 2009. LE released a sketch of the killer in 2010. Jesse Matthews co-workers at the cab company where he worked in Charlottesville made fun of him saying he looked just like the killer. No one stopped to check if he was driving a cab that night. A few years later Matthews murdered UVA coed, Hannah Graham, and her murder was linked to Morgan's based on Matthews DNA.

 

[Jax49]

Sometimes I ponder, what if LE did the best they could to clarify the image of the man on the bridge but due to the original blurriness, the final result is not totally accurate. And what if the witnesses involved in creating the likeness of the sketch released months later offered the best of their recollect, but it's not very accurate either?

Might the photo and sketch have become a disadvantage to solving this case? Are people who might suspect who this person is looking too closely at the photo and sketch and convincing themselves they must be wrong?

It's just something I wonder about from time to time.

I also wonder how accurate the weight and height are, especially the weight. JMHO, but BG doesn't weigh anywhere near 220 pounds.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Hi Shire,
Where did you see confirmation that they crossed the creek? I am interested.

Amber alerts are for vehicles - I know there was mention of a white car but I haven't seen the source materials. They have to have a vehicle to Amber Alert.

The missing girls were national news just hours after their disappearance - Obviously calling off the official search was a mistake. I completely remember thinking on 2/13, when I heard the girls were missing, "what is wrong with the police, do they really think the worst consequence is a 'cold night?'" I think everyone knew it was a mistake at the time. Family and friends searched through the night.

I don't know about billboards - I think the twist was LE had a photo of their assailant - I am pretty sure LE thought it was a good likeness and someone would call in so they blasted it. I agree with them too, IMHO if you knew BG you would see the resemblance and the posture.

It was in the same interview - Sgt Holeman August interview in the media thread.

I thought an Amber alert was for missing minors?

On the billboards the pic of BG was small too compared with the girls likenesses.

 

[MistyWaters]

I could not disagree more.

The public knows that a murderer is still at large. They know what he looks like, in general, and they have a clip of his voice.

Knowing the cause of death or whether sexual assault is an element of the crime does not help the public keep themselves safe, it only fuels gossip and rumor.

Further, these 2 aspects of the case are known to only a few, key people such that should a tip come in which includes these details, it will raise the alert that the tip may be more credible than the thousands of others.

LE has every "right" to keep details of the crime and investigation from the public. The public had NO right to know the details of an ongoing investigation. None.

I also think in not releasing additional information, LE may indeed be concerned about false confessions but didn't happen to mention concern over false and malicious tips. It's a huge waste on their resources when they get sent down a rabbit hole following a lead from a spiteful vindictive person who's only motive is to cause trouble for some innocent person. "He got really drunk one night and started blabbering on about....I think he was talking about the murders in Delphi.." Happens especially during relationship strife, no way to prove the tipster is blatantly lying.

The only way LE can prioritize tips is if the public doesn't know all the details.

 

[MistyWaters]

It was in the same interview - Sgt Holeman August interview in the media thread.

I thought an Amber alert was for missing minors?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMBER_Alert

 

[Shiressleuth]

https://www.in.gov/amberalert/

TY Misty. I have found Indiana criteria for Amber alert also.

Last we heard they have 100's of POI's. I wonder how many they have now and whether they have got that below 100 yet?

 

[MistyWaters]

LE don't always say much - like "everyone we talk to is a POI" and "cannot include or exclude" and "every body we talk to we get a DNA swab from" and "must protect the integrity of the investigation". They haven't even clarified whether they have BG's DNA.

Who out there would be most interested if LE made an official announcement if they did or didnt have the perps DNA?

My Answer - the Perp.

What other purpose would there be for the public to know?

 

[Ozoner]

I also think in not releasing additional information, LE may indeed be concerned about false confessions but didn't happen to mention concern over false and malicious tips. It's a huge waste on their resources when they get sent down a rabbit hole following a lead from a spiteful vindictive person who's only motive is to cause trouble for some innocent person. "He got really drunk one night and started blabbering on about....I think he was talking about the murders in Delphi.." Happens especially during relationship strife, no way to prove the tipster is blatantly lying.

The only way LE can prioritize tips is if the public doesn't know all the details.

They can withhold details (if a gun was used, the caliber could be withheld, etc.) without withholding the basics. Judging by the cases that I've followed over the years, it is not normal for the cause of death to be withheld.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think that will be of help for locals to address their concerns to rather than posters on an international forum. What we say on here isn't going to change policies on the ground in Delphi, I think we all realise that.

Just something to consider.... the vast majority of us here have absolutely no connection to Delphi and MSM is our sole source of official information. I think that includes both me and you.

But back in February, after the tradegy occured several people from in and around Delphi posted here about local meetings being held by LE. These gatherings were not reported by MSM. We also know Delphi has a local police department, along with an office dedicated to this investigation.

JMO I think we can be assured that locals have several available avenues open to them, to express any fears or concerns.

A town that I once lived in was the subject of major media focus. It was an interesting experience. It left me firmly convinced that locals always know a lot more than what outsiders read in the media. It can become "us" against "them" especially if they are subject to undue speculation, sensationalism and accusations. Eventually, if a media vehicle drove into town, the streets became immediately absent of people. JMO

 

[mtnlites]

I disagree. The public has a vested interest in knowing the basic elements of the crime: cause of death, whether the girls were sexually assaulted, etc. People have a right to protect themselves and their families from BG, and they need information in order to do that. LE does not have a right to withhold as much information as they have in this case.

In my experience of working with cases such as these, the amount of information they have held back is not unique.

 

[Deleted member 189081]

I have a question for the thread. The photo of Abby taken or uploaded at 2:07 where an earth is BG in it and how did he appear to catch them up so quickly. My understanding of the photos is that Libby was near the end of the bridge when she took the picture of Abby. I don't know why after all these months but BG must have come from somewhere and its starting to bug me. I know what I am trying to say but can't explain it very well.

KR
Reacher

 

[MistyWaters]

They can withhold details (if a gun was used, the caliber could be withheld, etc.) without withholding the basics. Judging by the cases that I've followed over the years, it is not normal for the cause of death to be withheld.

26000 or more tips to date is not normal either, nor is a $230k reward.

 

[mtnlites]

I disagree. The public has a vested interest in knowing the basic elements of the crime: cause of death, whether the girls were sexually assaulted, etc. People have a right to protect themselves and their families from BG, and they need information in order to do that. LE does not have a right to withhold as much information as they have in this case.

As someone who is literally in Delphi at this very moment for a funeral, and as a parent, I don't need to know every little detail (including whether there was a sexual assault) to keep myself and my children safe. I practice the same precautions that I do anyway, knowing that a murder took place just two miles down the road. Delphi LE has also worked hard to provide a safer feeling here in this area, including offering self-defense classes to its residents. The general feeling here at the moment is not one of panic, but one of satisfaction that LE is doing a good job and are to be trusted. Out of the people I know and am surrounded by in person here, nobody is asking for more details-I only see that online.

 

[MistyWaters]

I have a question for the thread. The photo of Abby taken or uploaded at 2:07 where an earth is BG in it and how did he appear to catch them up so quickly. My understanding of the photos is that Libby was near the end of the bridge when she took the picture of Abby. I don't know why after all these months but BG must have come from somewhere and its starting to bug me. I know what I am trying to say but can't explain it very well.

KR
Reacher

GH has posted a couple of videoes on his theory of the sequence of events that might've occured. You might find the visualization interesting..

https://youtube.com/watch?v=21KWPDhrpc4
Abby And Libby Delphi 3d Animation!

Libby and Abby crime Flow
https://youtube.com/watch?v=8dkJ-U07So4