IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 # 80

[Steleheart]

Thanks for the new thread.
It's a shame we need another one without *arrest* in the title but we know this is not unusual in far too many cases.

Would it be too much to ask people to read post 1 & 2 and thank those posts? It may help to not get the thread closed again. It's just sad when such an important case gets its thread closed.

This is just my opinion.

 

[BIC]

I don't know the answer to that either but I agree with you, I also got the impression Cpr Carter had a reason to say what he did. Either LE has successfully linked this crime with some other prior case or possibly the theory arose from the low statistical likelihood that a first time predator would target two victims in a high risk location such as near a public trail.

My present theory continually jumps here and there, whether only one person was involved or were there more, especially if what occurred was a planned assault or abduction of one or both girls. As mentioned on the Morning Show once again, about one of the girls having an opportunity to flee (but chose to stay together in strong loyalty to each other), a sole perp couldn't know that in advance. But the risk could be mitigated if two or more people were involved.

ETA: Another thing, Abby's mom said Abby might've been injured first....given how closely they've worked with investigators, IMO she had good reason to say what she did.

I’ve always felt that it was just one perp. If he was out to do what he did, there is nothing two young girls could do to stop him. It wouldn’t take much to subdue them in a secluded area. Now if this happened in a more populated area, then they might have been able to scare him off by screaming, and fighting, but that wouldn’t work in the woods. IMO

 

[Shiressleuth]

Being held on $500 bond...



http://coloradosprings.com/drifter-...ncing-for-mount-herman-threat/article/1619065

IMHO, no murder charges will be filled against DN.

If that is the case then they have been incredibly lenient on him for his felonies I think. I am reserving my judgement till we know whether he will be included or excluded as a suspect and released or extradited.

 

[Sleuthin' n TX]

I don't know the answer to that either but I agree with you, I also got the impression Cpr Carter had a reason to say what he did. Either LE has successfully linked this crime with some other prior case or possibly the theory arose from the low statistical likelihood that a first time predator would target two victims in a high risk location such as near a public trail.

My present theory continually jumps here and there, whether only one person was involved or were there more, especially if what occurred was a planned assault or abduction of one or both girls. As mentioned on the Morning Show once again, about one of the girls having an opportunity to flee (but chose to stay together in strong loyalty to each other), a sole perp couldn't know that in advance. But the risk could be mitigated if two or more people were involved.

ETA: Another thing, Abby's mom said Abby might've been injured first....given how closely they've worked with investigators, IMO she had good reason to say what she did.

I thought she said that in relation to them searching the night before and thinking one or the other might be injured and the second would not leave...regarding the murders she stated regardless if there was a knife or a gun, they want to believe that one refused to leave the other, even if they had the opportunity... bbm

 

[Deleted member 278]

I thought she said that in relation to them searching the night before and thinking one or the other might be injured and the second would not leave...she stated they want to believe that regardless if there was a knife or a gun, they want to believe that one refused to leave the other, even if they had the opportunity... bbm

That's what I heard too. Wish we had a transcript. I used to do machine transcription and loved it but I don't know how long it would take me to transcribe from a video with having to stop and rewind a lot.

 

[MistyWaters]

I’ve always felt that it was just one perp. If he was out to do what he did, there is nothing two young girls could do to stop him. It wouldn’t take much to subdue them in a secluded area. Now if this happened in a more populated area, then they might have been able to scare him off by screaming, and fighting, but that wouldn’t work in the woods. IMO

Yes I agree, it was by no means as populated as an urban trail or park environment.

Just thinking, BP mentioned the same thing as she did on Dr Phil, about other kids and people being on the trail, there just happening to be a lull at the time LIbby or Abby went to take photos from the bridge. But then I wonder, how could a perp know that others hadn't arrived at the trail and were making their way toward the bridge a ways behind him. The word "brazen" keeps popping up in my mind.

 

[Deleted member 278]

Yes I agree, it was by no means as populated as an urban trail or park environment.

Just thinking, BP mentioned the same thing as she did on Dr Phil, about other kids and people being on the trail, there just happening to be a lull at the time LIbby or Abby went to take photos from the bridge. But then I wonder, how could a perp know that others hadn't arrived at the trail and were making their way toward the bridge a ways behind him. The word "brazen" keeps popping up in my mind.

BBM - This is one of the most puzzling things for me.

 

[TeaTime]

The photo of BG was taken by Libby when Libby was already off the bridge at the SE end. It has been speculated here and by the video guy (GH?) that the artifact seen to the left of that photo was in fact, Abby's jacket, meaning she was on the bridge right in front of BG while Libby was already on the ground.

Libby didn't run away but rather waited for her friend and thus the conclusion that one could have gotten away but wouldn't leave the other. Libby could have run and left Abby but didn't.

JMHO

I believe that LE is speculating that BG has killed before and may kill again because most predatory killers do not start out in middle age with 2 random victims. And, BG looks middle aged to me in the photos - definitely not a young 20 -something. His voice is not that of a young man either.

I do not believe for one second that LE has connected this crime with any other crimes and do not think that this is what they were 'hinting' at. They are simply stating criminal behavior 101.

JMHO

 

[MistyWaters]

I thought she said that in relation to them searching the night before and thinking one or the other might be injured and the second would not leave...regarding the murders she stated regardless if there was a knife or a gun, they want to believe that one refused to leave the other, even if they had the opportunity... bbm

Hmmm interesting, I didn't take her comment about Abby being injured first to be related to the later search whatsoever. That's a good reason to watch the video again as Abby injured and Libby staying by her side while searchers were looking for both of them puts an entirely different perspective on things. My question would be, then what caused Libby's death? It wasn't overly cold that night.

 

[Shiressleuth]

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...Delphi-13-Feb-2017-79&p=13866735#post13866735

Link to brief transcript that Kizzy did for the MK show. Several posters were asking for it before the thread closed last night.

(btw I noticed last night a topix poster had cut and pasted this and another post about the indy alerts - that's real cheeky imo)

The most important items from the show appear to be the no witnesses comment and the serial killer comments.

If there were no witnesses - where does that leave Sgt Holman's sketch interview and the sketch origin?

Has BG killed before and/or since?

 

[TeaTime]

Yes I agree, it was by no means as populated as an urban trail or park environment.

Just thinking, BP mentioned the same thing as she did on Dr Phil, about other kids and people being on the trail, there just happening to be a lull at the time LIbby or Abby went to take photos from the bridge. But then I wonder, how could a perp know that others hadn't arrived at the trail and were making their way toward the bridge a ways behind him. The word "brazen" keeps popping up in my mind.

All he had to do, and which he obviously did do, was observe that no one else chose the trail to the bridge before or after A&L, and that no one was on that trail behind him. A simple observation and he easily assessed that there was no risk of being seen.

 

[TeaTime]

There were no witnesses to the crime. There were people who stated that they saw an unidentified man who was present in the vicinity and who fit the suspect's description.

By stating there were no witnesses, LE is stating there weren't witnesses to the crime.

Don't make more of it than is necessary.

 

[MistyWaters]

All he had to do, and which he obviously did do, was observe that no one else chose the trail to the bridge before or after A&L, and that no one was on that trail behind him. A simple observation and he easily assessed that there was no risk of being seen.

That could be. To that scenario brings my thoughts an abduction was a likelier motivation as opposed to SA. Quickly out of there.

 

[kkdj]

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...Delphi-13-Feb-2017-79&p=13866735#post13866735

Link to brief transcript that Kizzy did for the MK show. Several posters were asking for it before the thread closed last night.

(btw I noticed last night a topix poster had cut and pasted this and another post about the indy alerts - that's real cheeky imo)

The most important items from the show appear to be the no witnesses comment and the serial killer comments.

If there were no witnesses - where does that leave Sgt Holman's sketch interview and the sketch origin?

Has BG killed before and/or since?

Isn't this in direct conflict with what has been stated before? I think we need to compare the exact 2 statements, this one and the prior one(s). imo

 

[MistyWaters]

There were no witnesses to the crime. There were people who stated that they saw an unidentified man who was present in the vicinity and who fit the suspect's description.

By stating there were no witnesses, LE is stating there weren't witnesses to the crime.

Don't make more of it than is necessary.

I agree, Cpr Carter referring to the crime, nobody witnessed it.

If the suspect is caught and the case goes to trial, there will certainly be people called to testify including those who assisted with the composite sketch, the family, searchers and so on. They will all be called to the witness stand to testify. But they are not "witnesses" to the definition of the word.

1.
a person who sees an event, typically a crime or accident, take place.
"police are appealing for witnesses to the accident"
synonyms: observer, onlooker, eyewitness, spectator, viewer, watcher; More
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/witness

 

[Jax49]

There were no witnesses to the crime. There were people who stated that they saw an unidentified man who was present in the vicinity and who fit the suspect's description.

By stating there were no witnesses, LE is stating there weren't witnesses to the crime.

Don't make more of it than is necessary.

Exactly. Carter is saying there were no eyewitnesses to the crime.

Several times before LE has stated there were people who saw a man they believe is the murderer.

These two statements are not in conflict. moo

 

[margarita25]

This is a video explaining and clarifying events of yesterday, and has a brief interview with Supt Doug Carter when he landed in Indy after the MK interview.
https://www.wthr.com/article/tennessee-sheriff-clarifies-delphi-suspect-has-not-been-seen-there

(Adding to media thread, thanks kizzykat)
(Eta: I see Steleheart has already linked this same article)

 

[heartgoesout]

Yes I agree, it was by no means as populated as an urban trail or park environment.

Just thinking, BP mentioned the same thing as she did on Dr Phil, about other kids and people being on the trail, there just happening to be a lull at the time LIbby or Abby went to take photos from the bridge. But then I wonder, how could a perp know that others hadn't arrived at the trail and were making their way toward the bridge a ways behind him. The word "brazen" keeps popping up in my mind.

Yes, brazen for a reason...maybe just maybe BG would have been able to say, (for example only), I’m the brother or uncle or dad or cousin if someone butted in and questioned what was going on and the person walks away minding their own business. 100% just my opinion.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Or maybe BG has prior victim(s) not currently known to be murder victims, as in one of the countless missing persons out there?

Is there a database of DNA from unsolved crimes that can be accessed by LE? I wonder if they have a match of DNA from an unknown perp in another murder. Carter seemed pretty sure that this person killed before.

Maybe, the previous victims are the Iowa cousins Lyric and Elizabeth and LE is already knowing of matching DNA of at least one perp?

 

[Shiressleuth]

Exactly. Carter is saying there were no eyewitnesses to the crime.

Several times before LE has stated there were people who saw a man they believe is the murderer.

These two statements are not in conflict. moo

What about Libby being a witness herself and using her phone? They have his pic, his voice and possibly the crime on there too. Without that prime evidence there would be very little. Didn't police say the BG pic was just before a crime took place? That "no there weren't any" is rubbish imo. The question was " were there any eye witnesses that actually saw him" according to Kizzy's transcript not " were there any eye witnesses to the crime?"

The answer should have been "yes there were eyewitnesses who actually saw him before and after on the trail" if all the other stuff in the interviews and on Dr Phil is correct. I hope Carter doesn't give evidence at any trial.