IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 # 80

[MistyWaters]

There's also the rather provocative notion that Parabon or similar technology could be used to develop a sketch of DNA that was found at a scene or on a body but is present for innocuous reasons. In other words, the Parabon image would be of the wrong person. At what point would you discover this and how would you know?

Me personally, I highly doubt LE would sketch an image sourced from Parabon and then publicly lie that the sketch was drawn based on people who personally sighted someone who they believed matched the image of the suspect. That type of deception serves no worthwhile purpose because LE could've just not disclosed any source whatsoever. Juries do not like when police blatantly lie to the public, then later testify in order to convict.

Another reason I don't think the sketch was sourced from Parabon is Parabon cannot determine the age of the person who's DNA is tested. It's not a stretch of the imagination that one or both girls might've had physical contact with another boy without their family's knowledge leaving open the possibility a Parabon sketch is what some 14 year old will look like in middle age. That's a very good reason for LE to publicly disclose a Parabon sketch is what it is, when they utilize those means. JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

I don't think I said that. However Kevin Sweat's version of why he shot two young girls was that he saw two monsters.

Yes it's true that it's become common that type of defence in insanity pleas, especially when supported by a medical diagnosis such as schizophrenia.

I just can't see that was involved in this case whatsoever. In my opinion the perp was far more diabolical.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think they went off the bridge and down under or around that end of the bridge then went back up after 20 minutes or so to the end to return north and that is when they saw him approaching and caught him on camera either accidentally or deliberately and he then accosted them and directed them down the hill. :cow:

Possible. LE has never said if they've recovered more photos from Libby's cellphone, taken that afternoon. IIRC the one of Abby at 2:07 was shared on FB prior to it being officially released by LE but it's possible others weren't shared via Snapchat. Because BP said the girls went to the bridge to take photos, jmo there were more taken that LE haven't released, prior to BG appearing from somewhere.

 

[Jax49]

Regarding the witness(es) who contributed to the sketch I found this description of MP's statement on the Dr. Phil show.

(from thread #77)

The exact quote from the show when MP was asked how the sketch was created was, "from an eye witness, person, who saw a person that looked like this, leaving that area, around that time, that day."

moo

 

[Steleheart]

Regarding the witness(es) who contributed to the sketch I found this description of MP's statement on the Dr. Phil show.

(from thread #77)



moo

Yes and I believe MP when he says that. Also from the Holeman interview when he says

"Well, that's a good question. It's actually compiled, it's not just from one person,

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...melines-NO-DISCUSSION&p=13849787#post13849787

My takeaway is that MP is describing the encounter of only one of the witnesses. But officially there were multiple contributors to the sketch info.

JMO

 

[Ember123]

Supporting the notion that BG was lying in wait near the SE end of the bridge are the various videos showing the SE trail still taped off in the days afterward. I've not seen any other videos showing yellow tape, aside from the actual crime scene across the creek below the cemetery, some 500' away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KR-R3OYhgY (at the 6:30 mark)

Good point!

 

[Ember123]

Panhandling requires interface with people...so IMO, although we don't know the actual number of witnesses, more people would have come forward to ID a panhandler in that area

Yes, good point here^^^ !

 

[Steleheart]

Supporting the notion that BG was lying in wait near the SE end of the bridge are the various videos showing the SE trail still taped off in the days afterward. I've not seen any other videos showing yellow tape, aside from the actual crime scene across the creek below the cemetery, some 500' away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KR-R3OYhgY (at the 6:30 mark)

To be clear that is not LE crime scene tape.
It is NO TRESPASSING tape and signs available in Home Depot. It's private property. People were trampling all over the property there. The date of that YT vid is April 4th. I would have posted it too if it were my property.

It's been posted so many times here and on SM that LE taped it off. I have yet to see any verification from LE that they routinely use No Trespassing signs on a crime scene. I have never seen it.

JMO

 

[BIC]

There are photos of the boots upstream...

(I think BIC said he/she wants to go hunting for it :wink:
JK, making a quip about BIC's post from earlier re: looking through 80 threads for something else:

lol [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BIC]

Possible. LE has never said if they've recovered more photos from Libby's cellphone, taken that afternoon. IIRC the one of Abby at 2:07 was shared on FB prior to it being officially released by LE but it's possible others weren't shared via Snapchat. Because BP said the girls went to the bridge to take photos, jmo there were more taken that LE haven't released, prior to BG appearing from somewhere.

IIRC they did say they recovered other photos on the phone. When I get a minute I’ll start digging.

 

[Jerrod]

To be clear that is not LE crime scene tape.
It is NO TRESPASSING tape and signs available in Home Depot. It's private property. People were trampling all over the property there. The date of that YT vid is April 4th. I would have posted it too if it were my property. It's been posted so many times here and on SM that LE taped it off. I have yet to see any verification from LE that they routinely use No Trespassing signs on a crime scene. I have never seen it. JMO

Conversely, I've never seen "Do Not Cross" tape utilized by anyone other than LE, with the exception of utility workers. (I'd be curious to learn why LE would tape off an owner's private property when it would seem to be the responsibility of the owner himself.) And I've never read that CSX has forfeited their right-to-use easement on the SE trail - even after the tracks were removed - which would mean the easement cannot be arbitrarily posted "No Trespassing" by the owner.

What's more important is this: BG would've been able to remove himself from the scene via the SE trail. There is parking available where the trail ends. And, for what it's worth, from there it's 2.5 miles to the IP parking lot.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Regarding the witness(es) who contributed to the sketch I found this description of MP's statement on the Dr. Phil show.

(from thread #77)



moo

Not an eye witness to the crime but an eye witness who saw the perp, that's a correct statement and terminology by MP IMO.

 

[Shiressleuth]

What's more important is this: BG would've been able to remove himself from the scene via the SE trail. There is parking available where the trail ends. And, for what it's worth, from there it's 2.5 miles to the IP parking lot.

RSBM

This is a really important point. I also wonder if there is a possibility a 4wd (or regular) vehicle could get down this old RR track ? In the 80 threads I do not remember this access being discussed previously.

 

[BIC]

IIRC they did say they recovered other photos on the phone. When I get a minute I’ll start digging.

I can’t find a link, so I can’t be certain.

 

[passepartout]

Re: the witnesses and the sketch

Holeman says the bit about 'not just from one person' but then he also says 'she' a few times. LE doesn't help anyone with this lack of clarity.

Or with statements like the reason they can't release any more details about anything is because then they'll get into 'false confessions'. Really? That might be true if this was about claiming to have the winning lottery ticket or being the owner of a found mega-karat diamond ring. But this is double homicide not Powerball.

And they've got the BG images and voice. That's a whole lot more than Cinderella being able to put her foot into the glass slipper or OJ not being able to put his hand in the bloody glove.

So when they first release the sketch, we learn that it's based on the recollection of several witnesses but then the ISP Sgt Holeman refers repeatedly to 'she'. And the sketch release comes with the disclaimer that the hat - a flat cap that's common on the gallops at Newmarket but not so much in rural Indiana - 'may not be accurate'.

Now we have DC on the MK segment telling us 'Please, disregard the face but look at the body because anybody could identify a family member by looking at the body.' I think we'd all agree that the body and movement is important and if the ISP feel that way too, why can't they release a moving image of BG?

FWIW, in the MK segment, he is asked if were there 'any eyewitnesses who actually saw BG'. And he answers 'No, there were not.' That appears to be a direct answer to the specifics of MK's question - and at several points in the interview, he pointedly did not answer her questions directly. Recall that he wouldn't even say yes or no to whether Libby's phone was an iPhone. What on earth could be the point of keeping that confidential?

Carroll County has a population of about 20,000. In a four month span between Nov 2016 and Feb 2017, six young girls were murdered in two separate incidents. Neither incident has been solved, not even the one in which there are images and audio of the suspect.

 

[mtnlites]

I, for one, have never ever heard of a perp referred to as a witness. Anyone else?

Nope. I haven't heard this either. I feel like it's splitting hairs.

 

[mtnlites]

Re: the witnesses and the sketch



Now we have DC on the MK segment telling us 'Please, disregard the face but look at the body because anybody could identify a family member by looking at the body.' I think we'd all agree that the body and movement is important and if the ISP feel that way too, why can't they release a moving image of BG?

.

It's possible that they don't have a moving sequence of BG. If Libby was recording stealthily, and I believe she was, then her phone might have been bouncing around. The three images that we have of BG may be all that exist. Camera: hidden, hidden, hidden, RAISED, hidden, hidden, hidden, RAISED, hidden, hidden, hidden, etc. Pausing on the those brief appearances and turning them into shots may literally be all they have of BG. If they released more of the film, we might not see anything more than shots of feet and ground.

 

[Shiressleuth]

http://www.swindlelaw.com/2013/01/bearing-false-witness/

Some examples.
(Good name for a law firm)

 

[Steleheart]

Conversely, I've never seen "Do Not Cross" tape utilized by anyone other than LE, with the exception of utility workers. (I'd be curious to learn why LE would tape off an owner's private property when it would seem to be the responsibility of the owner himself.) And I've never read that CSX has forfeited their right-to-use easement on the SE trail - even after the tracks were removed - which would mean the easement cannot be arbitrarily posted "No Trespassing" by the owner.

What's more important is this: BG would've been able to remove himself from the scene via the SE trail. There is parking available where the trail ends. And, for what it's worth, from there it's 2.5 miles to the IP parking lot.

Well it's worth a study.

You make good points
The easement leads to private property and it was not owned by the Indian trails. So here is a property map and owners' listing. Zoom in to Deer Creek and look at the bridge parcel. Click on that and "View Report". scroll down to "Transfer History" and see that it was recently transferred to "Historic Landmarks Foundation of Indiana Inc" on 12/20/17. Prior to that it was CSX Private property owned by CSX, not part of the trail.

https://beacon.schneidercorp.com/Application.aspx?AppID=377&LayerID=5553&PageTypeID=1
https://beacon.schneidercorp.com/Ap...PageID=2980&KeyValue=08-06-28-000-030.000-006

My point was that the land owners were being bothered by the looky loos and being asked for interviews, etc.
My other point was that LE makes their crime scene taping unmistakable. I have never seen them use "POSTED" signs. It's possible someone attached those to existing tape. I do not think it was there on the day of the search. There was an overhead video of the entire area, I think by RTV6. I have no recollection of seeing it there. GH has this tape in one of his vids contributed by another person but that was also later.
I still think that is not crime scene tape, LOL. But JMO

ETA I have Similar Tape as well as Caution tape that I used when I was in Facilities Management back in the old days. Also I can buy police tape on line if I want to be that "get offa my lawn" guy. :biggrin:
https://www.google.com/search?q=Yel..._d_YAhUDc60KHTxuAF8Q_AUICigB&biw=1575&bih=703

Regardless, If anyone has a link where LE put tape there during the crime scene forensic examination I would love it. Let's sleuth this tape thing.

 

[Steleheart]

Conversely, I've never seen "Do Not Cross" tape utilized by anyone other than LE, with the exception of utility workers. (I'd be curious to learn why LE would tape off an owner's private property when it would seem to be the responsibility of the owner himself.) And I've never read that CSX has forfeited their right-to-use easement on the SE trail - even after the tracks were removed - which would mean the easement cannot be arbitrarily posted "No Trespassing" by the owner.

What's more important is this: BG would've been able to remove himself from the scene via the SE trail. There is parking available where the trail ends. And, for what it's worth, from there it's 2.5 miles to the IP parking lot.

And also to that point it's a hop, skip and a jump from the transfer station if someone, who should not be driving, agreed to give a hitch hiker a lift to the SE end of the bridge.