IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #83

[Jethro4WS]

Thanks, Rip Meagen +Johnny,

I am aware of the FBI assisting in the Delphi case, however, I am puzzled, why now the GBI, what piece, in this case, is missing? I know LE is crying out for this one person to come forward but why is this so important?
When I looked again at at the Flora Fire case today, I became increasingly worried. Two high profile cases, are these cases beyond the realm of what IN LE can handle?
Link to Flora Investigation
http://fox59.com/2017/07/12/governo...ation-into-whether-flora-case-was-mishandled/

By passing on what they have to GBI they have a resource that has not been exposed to the case and any evidence, statements, etc. That means they are looking at it with fresh eyes and would have no baked in assumptions, bias, or other similar things that creep into the case with the Indiana investigators. In particular, this would be any assumptions about the flow of the crime, sequence of events, or what may or may not be evidence related to the crime. In the latter case there could be a situation where there is an item found that Indiana LE believe is connected with the crime (it may not be) or there is an item that Indiana LE believes is not connected with the crime (it may be).

There could be an issue with the time sequence and perhaps something is amiss with that in some way. Every element of the crime has to be accounted for no matter how insignificant it is and the order those elements occurred or likely occurred because that tells investigators (and more importantly profilers) more about the killer. Naturally, this is only important when you don't have the slightest clue as to who did it. If you knew who did it then it is not necessary to be able to fit all the pieces together but rather only the ones needed for a conviction.

Evidence, more often than not, is up for interpretation based on assumptions which may be driven by statistics or experience with prior cases, no matter how dissimilar, that the investigators working Abby and Libby's case have worked. Having an outside agency examine the case raw could bring new insight to existing evidence or to any potential suspects.

 

[Satchie]

I have always been perplexed by the spot on the right side of BG’s jeans.
This has beed discussed in previous threads but none of the theories I read seemed to explain it imo. I think it looks painted on.
Perhaps Whatever that is on his jeans explains why we are being told to focus on the clothes. If that is painted on surely someone who knows him would recognize that unusual pair of jeans, or if it is some sort of utility belt a coworker or family member might recognize that.

In one image it appeared painted, in the other it casts a clear shadow. I assume it's a small waist pouch, perhaps for binoculars, or similar equipment.

I know the photos have been analysed to death and I have't read it all, but what jumps out is that he likes to wear some sort of cap, different than a baseball cap. He wears a hoody under a thin windbreaker, rather than a heavy jacket. The arms of his jacket are too long, although the jacket is fairly short and gathers at the bottom. His jeans are too long and bunch around his ankles, he seems to have short arms and legs for the size clothing he buys. He may sometimes wear a pouch in front of his right hand jeans pocket.

However, I think what police are saying is that, if this is someone you know well, you'll recognize him just from the general impression the photo gives, like you would if he was walking towards you from a distance, it will just jump out that this is a familiar figure you've seen hundreds of times before.

 

[gregjrichards]

Thanks, Rip Meagen +Johnny,

I am aware of the FBI assisting in the Delphi case, however, I am puzzled, why now the GBI, what piece, in this case, is missing? I know LE is crying out for this one person to come forward but why is this so important?
When I looked again at at the Flora Fire case today, I became increasingly worried. Two high profile cases, are these cases beyond the realm of what IN LE can handle?
Link to Flora Investigation
http://fox59.com/2017/07/12/governo...ation-into-whether-flora-case-was-mishandled/

It’s a concern I have whether law enforcement in Delphi are able to manage a case like this as effectively as police departments that have dealt with numerous murders, especially the murders of teens and children in large cities for example. There have been aspects of this case that have caused me to question operational decisions that have been made, some of which I feel harmed the case more than helped it. I don’t know if small town naivety is an issue which has helped BG.

I don’t mean any disrespect to the Delphi law enforcement whatsoever. I can see how distraught this case has made the officers there and can’t begin to imagine how it affects them every day the monster is free. I hope they take the advice from the FBI going forward as they know better than anyone how to handle cases of this severity and complexity.

 

[cathdawg]

Well according to Carter at the last go around on the Dr Phil the right side is a shirt tail. Now the left side of his leg, (thigh) is another story, it is either a light issue or to me it is a bottle of toilet bowl cleaner or knife kit...when I say toilet cleaner i mean the kind with bleach. I cannot show the image as I am going to assume I can not post what I have found as it is not on MSM.

 

[Satchie]

I was looking at info about Detective Holeman, who gave the interview, and found this

DELPHI HOMICIDE CASE MANAGER GRADUATES FROM FBI NATIONAL ACADEMY http://www.wlfi.com/content/news/466888393.html

Seems the investigators are from the Indiana State Police, not the Delphi police department.

 

[Satchie]

Well according to Carter at the last go around on the Dr Phil the right side is a shirt tail. Now the left side of his leg, (thigh) is another story, it is either a light issue or to me it is a bottle of toilet bowl cleaner or knife kit...when I say toilet cleaner i mean the kind with bleach. I cannot show the image as I am going to assume I can not post what I have found as it is not on MSM.

I can see it as a brown shirt tail, it would mean the shirt wasn't buttoned up on the bottom. Pretty hard to tell what's with that patch on the left leg, it only appears in one photo. At any rate, I assume he wouldn't go around with it all the time, so it won't help with identification.

 

[cathdawg]

Did IN LE have to Fast Track Holeman into the FBI program?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

It's always important to call out opinion when it's stated as fact when discussing this case. BG may or may not have been a stranger to the girls. But we can't say it's a fact either way.

Also, there's a bit of a false dichotomy going on. The argument is presented as: Either he was totally unknown to both girls, or they knew him well enough to know his name.
What about: One knew him and one didn't. Or, they didn't know his name or who he was but had seen him around. Or, he looked vaguely familiar but they weren't sure. Or, he reminded them of someone but they didn't think it was really him, but it was. Or they thought it was someone they knew but it wasn't. Or they didn't recognize him until his face was right in front of him. Or he was a friend of a family member of a friend of a friend. Or they heard of him but never met him.
All that is opinion of course.

bbm
I would choose that version.
Someone "prominent" but differently dressed than usual and therefore questionable to the girls?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Yet knowing knowing them, and not naming them in the audio? That is not logical.

Maybe, the girls did name him but only by his first name - and there are many of men with this name?
Maybe, from the beginning the man with the right first name who came to mind, was considered to be 100% impossible to be the perp because of his reputation? - I wonder.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Do you have any idea of when the "Help Save the Monon High Bridge" article is? It seems they do have a Save the Monon High Bridge page on facebook and they were requesting people to donate for repairing the bridge in 2016.

http://www.carrollcountycomet.com/n...(and)_Letters/Save_the_Monon_High_Bridge.html

 

[Deleted member 102539]

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...Delphi-13-Feb-2017-65&p=13565740#post13565740

This is a link to the Spellbound transcript of the last part of the Holman interview. The last few questions and answers explain the girls were taking pics and videos with the phone and felt uncomfortable and that is why they started recording.
Why would they do that if it was someone they knew?

Maybe, they knew a man who resembled the BG but was only known to the girls in a suit or track suit or sports dress or stylish menswear and mainly WITHOUT a cap/hat. Perhaps they were considering whether they know him or not - until it was too late. - My thoughts only.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Police have never stated BG directed the girls DTH. There is zero proof DTH was said immediately leaving the bridge.

I disagree. All the indications are he took them off the south end of the bridge imo. Otherwise there would be more audio like " get across the bridge" or "get back up here".
:cow:

Eta. Steleheart has posted the link a few pages back that confirms BG directed the girls DTH, no-one else.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Maybe, the girls did name him but only by his first name - and there are many of men with this name?
Maybe, from the beginning the man with the right first name who came to mind, was considered to be 100% impossible to be the perp because of his reputation? - I wonder.

If he was named, even just partly, then why wouldn't LE release that ?- that would be vital evidence.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Here I agree. Thankfully we have the transcript of the Holeman interview with Alexis kindly done by our own Spellbound in whch Holeman was entirely noncommittal and never confirmed if they crossed the creek or made it down through the woods;


https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...Delphi-13-Feb-2017-65&p=13565009#post13565009

TY for posting the link and excerpt. I have posted the link a couple of times as well but the excerpt is specific. Alexis doesn't mention the creek but just asks how did they get from the bridge to where they were found. Why didn't Holeman say they went back across the bridge and were taken down the north bank? He chooses to describe going down thru sticker bushes and across the cold creek. Because that's the way they went imo.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I do think he is a railroad enthusiast and does frequent such secluded old abandoned railway tracks.IMO he is very informed about the railroad tracks, old abandoned ones. Boys generally do have a fascination for trains but he could also be from a family who had been employed in the railroad for a long time, generations maybe.

It makes sense the girls wouldn’t have expected a creep like this on the bridge, especially if they had been there before. I think they had been there before, but can’t recall how I know that.

I am looking at the Monon Trail system and the High Bridge tonight, trying to get a feel for the place and why a seemingly lone wolf killer would be there. That’s one of the key questions. It is an out of the way place. It is such an interesting and historical place. Looking at information shared by people who visited the bridge before this crime occurred, it is very scary to cross. That seems important, too. There is no doubt in my mind BG is very familiar with the bridge itself and the area and trails surrounding it.

I have thought BG very well could have been hunkering down in the vicinity, and am intrigued with the posts of those whose thinking has lead them to believe the searches on nearby properties were looking for someone hiding out there unbeknownst to the owner.

This 1.5-mile route follows part of the abandoned Monon Railroad line and includes High Bridge, Indiana’s second highest railroad trestle. This is a one-way route so, when you reach the end, retrace your path and return to City Park.

https://www.traillink.com/trail-itinerary/delphi-historic-trails/
https://www.traillink.com/trail/delphi-historic-trails/

But that is where the similarities to most small towns comes to an end; for Delphi and nearby portions of surrounding Carroll County are a trail trekkers’ mecca.

https://panethos.wordpress.com/2011/09/17/one-trail-blazing-small-town

Some very old pictures of the bridge, just for historical perspective:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/historic-landmarks-foundation-indiana/sets/72157667545100136/

Here's an interesting article about hiking the high bridge from 2010:
http://wildindiana.com/wps/2010/02/delphi-high-bridge-hike/

Great pics of the bridge:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/historic-landmarks-foundation-indiana/26052375094

http://www.carrollcountycomet.com/n...(and)_Letters/Save_the_Monon_High_Bridge.html

I think the railroad posts recently have been interesting so I am bumping them altogether for review.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Great pics of the bridge:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/historic-landmarks-foundation-indiana/26052375094

Yes, great pics! - There are several with a name printed on it J.T. Str. (don't want to spell completely). The pics have no "like" and no comment. If I google the name, it doesn't show up.
My line of thinking:
What if it is an invented name? What if the last name means "strike/s"? What if a perp casted his locations? What if there are "great" pics of the Iowa-location where the cousins got abducted or where they were found?
My POI I had first had the initials J. T. (first and middle Name).
Maybe, someone here would like to search for nice IOWA photos? I'm not good with sleuthing, unfortunately.

 

[Deleted member 189081]

I disagree. All the indications are he took them off the south end of the bridge imo. Otherwise there would be more audio like " get across the bridge" or "get back up here".
:cow:

Eta. Steleheart has posted the link a few pages back that confirms BG directed the girls DTH, no-one else.

The problem is Shire we don't know where down the hill recording was in comparison to the last photo of Abby on the bridge or how long afterwards. We all assume straight after the bridge and the capture of BG where the yellow tape was. But the yellow tape at the end of the bridge was for No trespassing and not a Crime Scene Tape. I personally think they were, ushered further along the path at the end of the bridge and said down the hill later. I still think this person/s knew the land well and knew exactly where and when to cross the Creek.

I still don't understand how a young lady has the presence of mind to turn recording facilities on but not call the one person nearest ie pick up person or police if she felt in danger.

KR
Reacher

 

[Wild Rose]

Thank you for this thread. Made me rethink, thank you. In the media, very early on, Liberty German's grandfather from Flora, said that she was a strong-willed girl. She put up a fight. (Daily Mail) I'll never forget that because he said she should be going to my funeral, not me going to hers. I hope that she physically fought him, maybe more evidence...IMO. Also IMO I think we have two wonderful kids, innocent on a beautiful day, I don't think that they would do anything to anyone even sideways, the idea that she was strong-willed, she would question something that was wrong IMO. SK with horrible intention from the get go IMO. Billboards went up so fast.

 

[Wild Rose]

The problem is Shire we don't know where down the hill recording was in comparison to the last photo of Abby on the bridge or how long afterwards. We all assume straight after the bridge and the capture of BG where the yellow tape was. But the yellow tape at the end of the bridge was for No trespassing and not a Crime Scene Tape. I personally think they were, ushered further along the path at the end of the bridge and said down the hill later. I still think this person/s knew the land well and knew exactly where and when to cross the Creek.

I still don't understand how a young lady has the presence of mind to turn recording facilities on but not call the one person nearest ie pick up person or police if she felt in danger.

KR
Reacher

IMO could have said that he was LE initially.

 

[terpstra1]

It is unknown what direction the footprints were headed. While there is much I would like to say concerning footprints it would get into things that are on the scanner thread and can't be discussed in this thread.

Are we allowed to post photos of foot prints found near the crime scene on 2/14/17?

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