IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #83

[K.jill]

At the 2/13/18 press conference I felt like LE was seeking particular information from a particular person. At 9:39 Meghan Kelly brings up to Doug Carter the thousands of tips generated from the Dr. Phil show. This would be the perfect time for Carter to beg plead etc. for tips . Nope. He only mentions a family member knows BG from the neck down. IMO they know who BG is. Watch out BG!
https://www.today.com/video/familie...en-up-about-still-unsolved-case-1137315395635

I am curious about ‘from the neck down’..a family member knows bg from the neck down.
Does this mean the family member would not recognize him from the neck up?

 

[Try2solve]

I am curious about ‘from the neck down’..a family member knows bg from the neck down.
Does this mean the family member would not recognize him from the neck up?

JMO, but maybe Carter is trying to bypass any family or friends of BG who keep claiming the pic is too fuzzy.

 

[K.jill]

JMO, but maybe Carter is trying to bypass any family or friends of BG who keep claiming the pic is too fuzzy.

That makes sense.
I wondered if it meant that BG was in more of a disguise than we realize from the pictures. In the still shots from the videos he looks like he is not particularly disguised.. at least from what I can tell. If he disguised his haircolor and body shape (imo) that would mean permeditation and planning, not a crime of opportinity.
Anyway, your explanation is more simple and makes more sense.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Nothing came of the SW on Bicycle Rd. I found it interesting that the FBI searched the Winnebago and the wooden shed on the property. Were they looking for a potential crime scene?

As far as I know, the only other publicized Search Warrant was served in Peru, IN. I was able to track it down to the 200 Block of W Canal. When looking on GE, there are very few properties on the 200 block of W Canal. The search occurred on Saturday, Feb. 25, 2017.

Perhaps we should keep in mind that there may be those who wished to cause their potential enemies a little trouble so they tipped them to LE merely to hassle someone in particular.

BBM. I have wondered about what LE was searching for in both the searches at Bicycle Bridge RD and at RL's and the Mears property across from RL's. Either LE was looking for an additional crime scene or they are looking for a particular item or items that are known to be missing. I would be rather concerned if LE was looking for an item or items and not mentioned they were looking for such things because by now any roadside cleanup or a property owner picking up stuff might have already encountered the item(s) and disposed of them not knowing the significance. If LE is looking for additional crime scene they should say that as well since it significantly changes the scope and flow of the crime.

 

[Jethro4WS]

At the 2/13/18 press conference I felt like LE was seeking particular information from a particular person. At 9:39 Meghan Kelly brings up to Doug Carter the thousands of tips generated from the Dr. Phil show. This would be the perfect time for Carter to beg plead etc. for tips . Nope. He only mentions a family member knows BG from the neck down. IMO they know who BG is. Watch out BG!
https://www.today.com/video/familie...en-up-about-still-unsolved-case-1137315395635

If LE knew who BG was they would have made an arrest. There is no need for someone else to come forward to identify him.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Though I don’t blame the police for running down all possibilities, BG does not look “drifterish” to me. His clothes are not only clean, but the jeans seem ironed and other articles could be color coordinated.

Rather, the totality of BGs confident stride despite the height and possible command voice seem to indicate a current or former authority figure. “Authority figure” can be broad and can include foreman, small business owner, coach, NCO, or even the inmate yard “boss” of a rural jail.

Though this is pure speculation on my part and we don’t know the full extent of the tape, the victims appear to have readily complied with the “down the hill” order. This might indicate an arranged meeting with BG’s appearance coming a surprise (photo taken), but not totally unexpected (meeting someone).

A currently local BG on a meeting would probably have been identified. But what about a former resident with an extreme personal grudge against a family, or who coerced control over a “Hey- that’s my full ounce bag” type criminal group, or was a “heavy weight” brought in to “solve” a problem?

I would also offer the following professions (or former professions) school teacher/staff, LE (including park/wildlife, housing, parking enforcement, university officers), prison guard.

 

[Try2solve]

If LE knew who BG was they would have made an arrest. There is no need for someone else to come forward to identify him.

It's impossible to say with 100% certainty what LE has done or will do in this investigation.

 

[Jethro4WS]

I am going back over the case again. Is it possible, that BG passed by the girls on the SE end of the bridge, the girls felt uncomfortable and decided to head back across the bridge closer to their pick up spot. Then, BG turned around and caught up with them at the NW end and walked them "down the hill" that would be to their right?

Reason being.. .I still can't get over them crossing that creek.

But I guess that would have meant there would be a police presence on that NW corner of the bridge during the aerial videos... and there appears not to be....and the crime scene photo showing the police tape at the SE corner would not be there either.

Like I said, if the girls feet were wet, then I would accept more so that they came across the stream but that would have been the time for one or both of them to get away and they did not.

What do you all think???? Only a 10% chance they didn't go across the creek?

Well, I have been of the opinion (still am) that the girls nor BG did not cross the creek.

We have been given the impression that the frames of the video released showing BG were part of the same video that the audio of "down the hill" came from. I believe that it is from the same video. However, what you suggest is plausible as LE has never once stated, nor has the media asked, whether or not the frames of the video of BG came from the same recording as "down the hill".

It is my opinion that LE has been lying about certain things, trying to bluff certain things, such as what evidence they really have, and, over time, trip over themselves later on. This is no different than ordinary people who have been less than truthful about things.

I believe that LE needs to change up their strategy and their tactics. Clearly, what they have been doing for the past year has not got them anywhere.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Is it possible that BG had an ATV parked under the bridge or nearby? Using an ATV would get you over a shallow river easily. And if BG had the girls tied together, perhaps it's possible that neither had a chance to make a run for it.

The water depth at the gauge just upstream from the bridge was 3.5 feet. While over sand bars it would be a bit shallower (perhaps as little as 1.5 feet to 2 feet deep) it would be over 4 and 5 feet in the deeper channels. In terms of the crime scene area the deeper parts are on the south edge of the creek as we can see from the helicopter video taken the day the girls were found. The water would have been about 6 inches lower on the day the girls were found than it was the day they went missing.

 

[Try2solve]

From the beginning LE has said BG at least participated in the murders. I believe there is video of BG on the bridge involved in criminal activity.
That leads me to believe BG grabbed Abby on the bridge while Libby was recording. Imagine Libby then quickly puts her phone in her pocket to help Abby. At this point audio only. That would explain the various statements from family regarding the girls sticking together. If this scenario is correct there has to be more audio before "down the hill". Probably mostly crying from the Abby and struggling from Libby. At this point on the bridge while BG is gaining initial control over the girls all the voices are overlapping. I believe LE has more audio and video and their refusal to release anymore gives me hope they are close to arrest.

 

[Boxer]

Two feet of running creek water in February is not a simple dabbling through - takes committed step
selection and a fall would be hard to get up from at
first - I think they made a break for it probably tried to get across the creek and he caught one and coerced the other with his hostage.
What a piece of human garbage.

 

[Jethro4WS]

It's impossible to say with 100% certainty what LE has done or will do in this investigation.

What would be the reason for LE to know exactly who BG is but require someone else to offer BG's identity?

LE only has the hurdle of probable cause to arrest someone. Probable cause is merely that a "reasonable person" (doesn't have to be LE by the the way) would believe that there is reason to believe a person committed a crime. If they know who BG is LE would have some evidence to that fact. They need not have proof beyond a reasonable doubt - that is the prosecutor's problem. So, I am perplexed by the notion that LE could know exactly who BG is but be completely hog-tied until someone else - anyone else but LE - calls in and offers BG's identity.

The only reason that I could think of that could support such a situation is that LE has absolutely zero physical evidence that can tie anyone at all to the crime scene or the girls. Allegedly LE has such evidence though I don't believe they do.

 

[heartgoesout]

IF LE knows who BG is, I wonder if BG has an alibi, and said alibi won't give him up for whatever reason...and despite LE best efforts LE has not been able to prove the alibi is a lie or said alibi's alibi is a lie.

 

[Ember123]

I've been wondering if LE looked into any local residents that fit BG's description that lost an elderly relative they lived with in the weeks/months prior to 2/13/2017. I am under the impression that BG possibly lives or lived with an elderly relative who would either be senile or unaware of the murders or is in no position to turn him in even if they suspected him because he is their sole caregiver. Just a thought.

Or BG may be sole breadwinner to a very dependent and naive wife?

 

[Boxer]

If they are not systematically working through every male in the geographical - shame on them.
I did some math Of Delphi and the five bordering counties - there are approximately 66,000 males in the right age group - Elimination in this group should bring the number way way down.

No DNA on file ( all felons with dna on file- eliminated)
5’6” to 5’10” (rare attribute)
Reddish hair (rare attribute)
30-60 Years old
Low voice tone
No verifiable alibi on the afternoon of 2/13/17

So I hope they are working through the possible suspects and aren’t waiting for some one to call and tell Them who did it.

Also a one use voluntary dna database from the geographical area could really help -
all willing people submitting their dna to look for familial matches - it’s at least a direction.
Then after the murderer is found the database to be destroyed.

 

[mtnlites]

I am curious about ‘from the neck down’..a family member knows bg from the neck down.
Does this mean the family member would not recognize him from the neck up?

I think it simply means that the face is so blurry that it could literally be just about anyone (which has proven to be true, considering the number of tips they've called in and the fact that they've explicitly had to ask people online to stop posting side-by-sides).

 

[PaulaDC]

I would also offer the following professions (or former professions) school teacher/staff, LE (including park/wildlife, housing, parking enforcement, university officers), prison guard.

IMO that jacket looks like a tactical jacket. I wonder if it had something written on the back like "security" or some other authoritarian type word which would make the girls go with him.

 

[kidetect22]

I think it simply means that the face is so blurry that it could literally be just about anyone (which has proven to be true, considering the number of tips they've called in and the fact that they've explicitly had to ask people online to stop posting side-by-sides).

I have to agree! I feel like when BG is caught we will be surprised what he actually looks like!!!

 

[DeDee]

I thought I heard a little bird chirping. I did. I did.

One thing I have learned from you, Kind Sir, in the past twenty months, or so, is that I need to focus on each word you write. Every word is important, well chosen and well placed. What does each sentence or phrase mean? Sort of reminds me of reading a transcript of a news conference. My head bows to you for the important work you perform for the victims of crime. We've had many brilliant people work on this murder investigation. Thank you for everything you have been willing to share with us including but not limited to the Scanner Thread.

What would be the reason for LE to know exactly who BG is but require someone else to offer BG's identity?

LE only has the hurdle of probable cause to arrest someone. Probable cause is merely that a "reasonable person" (doesn't have to be LE by the the way) would believe that there is reason to believe a person committed a crime. If they know who BG is LE would have some evidence to that fact. They need not have proof beyond a reasonable doubt - that is the prosecutor's problem. So, I am perplexed by the notion that LE could know exactly who BG is but be completely hog-tied until someone else - anyone else but LE - calls in and offers BG's identity.

The only reason that I could think of that could support such a situation is that LE has absolutely zero physical evidence that can tie anyone at all to the crime scene or the girls. Allegedly LE has such evidence though I don't believe they do.

The water depth at the gauge just upstream from the bridge was 3.5 feet. While over sand bars it would be a bit shallower (perhaps as little as 1.5 feet to 2 feet deep) it would be over 4 and 5 feet in the deeper channels. In terms of the crime scene area the deeper parts are on the south edge of the creek as we can see from the helicopter video taken the day the girls were found. The water would have been about 6 inches lower on the day the girls were found than it was the day they went missing.

The water depth at the gauge just upstream from the bridge was 3.5 feet.

If one or both of the girls is 5'5" then, 3.5' is rather, deep for them, especially when factoring in the frigid temperature of the water. It is deep for BG if he is 5'7". One of our specialists has BG at 5'5" so I lean toward the lower end of the scale offered by LE on BGs height.

Well, I have been of the opinion (still am) that the girls nor BG did not cross the creek.

We have been given the impression that the frames of the video released showing BG were part of the same video that the audio of "down the hill" came from. I believe that it is from the same video. However, what you suggest is plausible as LE has never once stated, nor has the media asked, whether or not the frames of the video of BG came from the same recording as "down the hill".

It is my opinion that LE has been lying about certain things, trying to bluff certain things, such as what evidence they really have, and, over time, trip over themselves later on. This is no different than ordinary people who have been less than truthful about things.

I believe that LE needs to change up their strategy and their tactics. Clearly, what they have been doing for the past year has not got them anywhere.

I have tried for over a year to get at least the three of them across Deer Creek knowing what I know about the topography. It does not work. Also, let's remember that LE takes extra time to thank the media. The media has been an ally to the LE Team. Big time.

I would also offer the following professions (or former professions) school teacher/staff, LE (including park/wildlife, housing, parking enforcement, university officers), prison guard.

If LE knew who BG was they would have made an arrest. There is no need for someone else to come forward to identify him.

Good ole common sense. Yes, Sir.

Originally Posted by DeDee
Nothing came of the SW on Bicycle Rd. I found it interesting that the FBI searched the Winnebago and the wooden shed on the property. Were they looking for a potential crime scene?

BBM. I have wondered about what LE was searching for in both the searches at Bicycle Bridge RD and at RL's and the Mears property across from RL's. Either LE was looking for an additional crime scene or they are looking for a particular item or items that are known to be missing. I would be rather concerned if LE was looking for an item or items and not mentioned they were looking for such things because by now any roadside cleanup or a property owner picking up stuff might have already encountered the item(s) and disposed of them not knowing the significance. If LE is looking for additional crime scene they should say that as well since it significantly changes the scope and flow of the crime.

There are videos of both searches mentioned. I happen to believe they were looking for the Primary CS. For me, the K9 is working when he crosses the street from RLs home and walks his trainer to the Mears barn. The trainer didn't ask the K9 to go across the street. I feel the K9 led his trainer based on odors. I trust well-trained dog's instincts. They love their jobs. They get lots of doggie treats for their work. Indy has a K9 that can sniff out hidden electronics. The trained K9 assisted LE in the Jerad Folge case by sniffing out electronics that humans can miss or would require hours of searching.

BTW, just a few hours ago, JF requested for his Judge to be dismissed because she is a parent.
http://www.kgw.com/article/news/nat...ters/465-d605a4a4-775d-4fc5-a52c-570fdf63dd00

 

[Shiressleuth]

IF LE knows who BG is, I wonder if BG has an alibi, and said alibi won't give him up for whatever reason...and despite LE best efforts LE has not been able to prove the alibi is a lie or said alibi's alibi is a lie.

This is what I think hence the wife or brother comment and appealing to family to "look at the body". The recent PC did appear to be targeted specifically rather than a blanket appeal. I hope the 300 or so tips received were relevant and specific.

Re. Crossing the creek mentioned by OP - the Holman August interview in the media thread is useful in this regard. (10.49 in the video, part 2 in Spellbound's transcript. )