IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #83

[Beth11311]

A profile would be wonderful. Time of death as well just to really narrow things down, and in what way LE believes (but obviously isn’t sharing) that BG left the scene. Just because they have no knowledge of a car doesn’t mean they don’t think he left in one, is what I’m getting at. I would also love for them to release a colored sketch...and more so tell us if they are still even confident in the sketch as we have basically been told to look at the neck down, now. Lastly, a video of BG walking on the bridge so we could get some sense of his gait would be superb. So basically what everyone else has said I guess.
I remember some time ago there was debate about whether there was something on BGs thigh area or if he might have been exposing himself, and for some reason LE doesn’t want that known. If that’s the case, releasing video may make it more obvious if there is something blurred out in the specific area for the length of the video. I’m not sure that’s what is going on at all, but something to consider. Again I still don’t know that that would be good enough reason to not release video if his gait can help identify him, just an idea that came to mind.


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[MzOpinion8d]

I'm still confused over the comment made, after the search was called off that night, that ~ Libby's phone was pinging all over town~ still wondering how that could be?

That town isn't very big, and my guess is that where her phone was located it was able to ping off all the surrounding towers. Phones will change towers based on which one has the best signal at the moment. So her phone was probably changing towers because of that, which made it appear that she was moving around the area.

This is why phone ping evidence isn't 100% reliable. It can be used to narrow things down, and to show two phones in proximity to one another, but it can't prove for certain that a phone was in an exact spot. Also can't prove who had possession of the phone.

 

[kidetect22]

I think a profile would help - Especially to those that may or may not know BG. It would help clarify their thoughts.
As for phone pings. I am at a loss at how the comment could have been made so quickly by a family member.
As for time of death, I think it could be helpful.
As for the cause of death, I believe LE is doing the right thing and keeping it close to their chest.

I think LE could do more with Profile and or suspected escape route or method. I don't think the sketch was helpful and I would like to know if they ran the voice through Voice Analytics pinpointing the accent (Of Course they would have done)

I think LE enforcement know exactly who did this and cant prove it because of an alibi which refuses to break or report.

It is the Alibi that needs to look at their conscience and live with it day in day out.

May today be the day.the alibi chooses to do the right thing.

KR
Reacher

I agree a million times over and stated it here many times that I believe they do know who BG is, but he has a solid alibi and isn’t budging. Whoever confirmed BG’s alibi is who law enforcement is hoping will break down in time and come forward. I hands down believe this was a SA crime, I tend to think LE is holding strong to not releasing more info because they want to have the most solid, credible case to prosecute BG when the time comes. I have to think the family agrees with LE as well. They would rather see this a-hole get the highest form of punishment even if it means waiting longer!!! All MO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

That town isn't very big, and my guess is that where her phone was located it was able to ping off all the surrounding towers. Phones will change towers based on which one has the best signal at the moment. So her phone was probably changing towers because of that, which made it appear that she was moving around the area.

This is why phone ping evidence isn't 100% reliable. It can be used to narrow things down, and to show two phones in proximity to one another, but it can't prove for certain that a phone was in an exact spot. Also can't prove who had possession of the phone.

As a 100% layman :blushing: I would think the place, where a phone is pinging several towers, should be identifiable as well. Although there would be more than one place certainly.
Who was in possession of the phone at that time, that would be questionable of course.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

A profile would be wonderful. Time of death as well just to really narrow things down, and in what way LE believes (but obviously isn’t sharing) that BG left the scene. Just because they have no knowledge of a car doesn’t mean they don’t think he left in one, is what I’m getting at. I would also love for them to release a colored sketch...and more so tell us if they are still even confident in the sketch as we have basically been told to look at the neck down, now. Lastly, a video of BG walking on the bridge so we could get some sense of his gait would be superb. So basically what everyone else has said I guess.
I remember some time ago there was debate about whether there was something on BGs thigh area or if he might have been exposing himself, and for some reason LE doesn’t want that known. If that’s the case, releasing video may make it more obvious if there is something blurred out in the specific area for the length of the video. I’m not sure that’s what is going on at all, but something to consider. Again I still don’t know that that would be good enough reason to not release video if his gait can help identify him, just an idea that came to mind.


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I think, BG walking along a very high railway track on railway sleepers (every step to overcome a gap) wouldn't look like his gait on a trail or footpath at all. Therefore I wouldn't think more of the video being very helpful to us or any viewer (except someone who knows him and has him recognized already for quite some time).
A colored sketch might be very helpful. I agree!
Vehicle or not - yes, I would be interested to know.
A FBI profile - yes, would like to read it.

 

[Maplesyrup]

He could have smashed it and thought it was not viable. Or if he didn't think he had been recorded (because she was super stealthy), and he never touched it maybe he really didn't think it was necessary to do anything with it.

My thoughts on whether the phone was/was not removed from the crime scene by BG -- If this killer has any functioning brain cells and is aware of the ability to track cell phones via satellite, he would be a complete moron to take it with him. My family has Life 360 loaded onto our phones. We can literally see which part of the house we are in, for example which child is in which bedroom or living room etc. It is THAT accurate. You can replay the history of the phone [satellite is used for accurate tracking and it is EXTREMELY accurate. I can't speak for other tracking apps on phones but I will tell you this...if BG took that phone [and it had Life 360 loaded onto it] and he had the phone in his pocket and let's say stopped at a McDonald's 60 miles away to get a cup of coffee...the history of the phone would show exactly the route it took and where its trip ended. Now, let's say someone says to LE..."hey, I saw a guy that day that looked like the BG you are hunting and he was in my McDonald's around 4pm that day, and here is what I remember about him, and by the way we have security cameras." Or perhaps using some other method they can place him at that McDonald's that day, and if it so happens that Libby's phone was at that same McDonald's...well that would be quite useful in a trial. So my opinion is that the phone stayed in the woods that day. He didn't take it.

 

[Try2solve]

I agree a million times over and stated it here many times that I believe they do know who BG is, but he has a solid alibi and isn’t budging. Whoever confirmed BG’s alibi is who law enforcement is hoping will break down in time and come forward. I hands down believe this was a SA crime, I tend to think LE is holding strong to not releasing more info because they want to have the most solid, credible case to prosecute BG when the time comes. I have to think the family agrees with LE as well. They would rather see this a-hole get the highest form of punishment even if it means waiting longer!!! All MO

I also believe LE knows the identity of BG. I think there would be major pushback from the families(especially Becky)if LE refused to release more video and LE was clueless to BGs identity. I don't believe the holdup has anything to do with an alibi for BG. I don't believe BG committed this crime alone. I think they're gathering evidence for anyone else involved, which would explain all the subpoenas Mcleland did in January. If at the trial the prosecutor can't prove every aspect of the crime, that leaves reasonable doubt for the jury. Remember Casey Anthony? JMO

 

[Try2solve]

My thoughts on whether the phone was/was not removed from the crime scene by BG -- If this killer has any functioning brain cells and is aware of the ability to track cell phones via satellite, he would be a complete moron to take it with him. My family has Life 360 loaded onto our phones. We can literally see which part of the house we are in, for example which child is in which bedroom or living room etc. It is THAT accurate. You can replay the history of the phone [satellite is used for accurate tracking and it is EXTREMELY accurate. I can't speak for other tracking apps on phones but I will tell you this...if BG took that phone [and it had Life 360 loaded onto it] and he had the phone in his pocket and let's say stopped at a McDonald's 60 miles away to get a cup of coffee...the history of the phone would show exactly the route it took and where its trip ended. Now, let's say someone says to LE..."hey, I saw a guy that day that looked like the BG you are hunting and he was in my McDonald's around 4pm that day, and here is what I remember about him, and by the way we have security cameras." Or perhaps using some other method they can place him at that McDonald's that day, and if it so happens that Libby's phone was at that same McDonald's...well that would be quite useful in a trial. So my opinion is that the phone stayed in the woods that day. He didn't take it.

Completely agree. I believe BG tossed the phone in the creek.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

All murders can be described as brutal Imo.

You are right!

Canada 2010
Hamilton Det. Staff Sgt. Steve Hrab, who, at that time was investigating the murder, called G.'s attack one of the most horrific he had come across in 10 years.

"I have been doing this for some time and this one ranks at the top," he said.
-.-.-
He (the friend and witness) had baked a cake for G., using one of her favourite recipes, and was delivering it to her on Dec. 30 when he discovered her brutalized body.
-.-.-
A veteran homicide detective described the murder of A. G. as horrendous, vicious and savage. “In the last 10 years I can’t think of one more vicious,” Staff Sgt. Steve Hrab said, adding that the woman’s killing stands out in the top 1 per cent of worst cases he has seen.
-.-.-
And now the witness version of the same murder:

The witness who found her body didn't notice much of blood and his first thought was, AG might have slipped on ice in her garage.
-.-.-

Since the above case (unsolved til today) I don't know what to think as long as the case is not solved.

 

[kkdj]

I'm still confused over the comment made, after the search was called off that night, that ~ Libby's phone was pinging all over town~ still wondering how that could be?

This has been an oddity to me as well. At first blush one thinks that either the girls and the phone were being transported by BG or BG was going places alone with their phone. Of course that would mean he then went back to the scene, leaving the girls there with the phone, went back to the scene where he had left the girls and dropped the phone off there, LE hasn't been telling us the truth about the phone being found near the girls or the pings were just random for some reason.

 

[Beth11311]

This has been an oddity to me as well. At first blush one thinks that either the girls and the phone were being transported by BG or BG was going places alone with their phone. Of course that would mean he then went back to the scene, leaving the girls there with the phone, went back to the scene where he had left the girls and dropped the phone off there, LE hasn't been telling us the truth about the phone being found near the girls or the pings were just random for some reason.

Something I’ve always wondered about regarding “pings”, is where they got that info so fast? Doesn’t it usually take time for phone companies to relinquish that info? I guess with the FBI involved so fast anything is possible but didn’t they mention the pinging phone very early on?


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[Maplesyrup]

Something I’ve always wondered about regarding “pings”, is where they got that info so fast? Doesn’t it usually take time for phone companies to relinquish that info? I guess with the FBI involved so fast anything is possible but didn’t they mention the pinging phone very early on?


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If the phone was in the creek as some of us suspect, perhaps the cold creek water with a brisk current was altering the GPS coordinates on the phone. LE/FBI is experienced enough to know how water submersion may affect GPS. They were searching the creek, side by side, right after the girls were found. They were convinced something of importance was in the water.

 

[8771]

Off the wall question:

What new information could LE tell us now.... that would help solve the case... yet preserve crucial evidence for future prosecution?

If DNA were present, why would SO MUCH of this investigation need to be kept private? I can't help but think of the many cases based solely on circumstantial evidence that end in conviction. They have the girls' bodies, no doubt the COD, pretty airtight timeline of the crime, video/audio of the prime suspect approaching the victims (and presumably audio of an altercation and/or the crime itself). I don't think even OJ Simpson could escape such damning evidence.

If I were a family member, I would want the public to know every last horrible detail of what happened to my children so that the public would perhaps be haunted as much as I would be and in turn, try their hardest to serve justice to this psychopath. I would not want my child's case to quietly, respectfully slip away into cold case oblivion ... but MOO and hopefully, God willing, I will never have to face such a scenario.

All this makes me believe that:
a) there is no strong DNA source from the suspect
or
b) there is very strong evidence of a suspect they have in mind and are giving him zero chances to formulate any sort of defense that would hold up in court as they wait for his alibi to be disproved

Again, if a strong DNA sample were present at the crime scene, they wouldn't have to worry much about compromising a conviction given all of the other evidence they have, no? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit to add: In response to your question, I think ANY new information could help lead to a suspect

 

[hilary1617]

Sadly, if the COD is unusual, they may not want to reveal it to avoid creating fodder for copycats.

 

[kidetect22]

If the phone was in the creek as some of us suspect, perhaps the cold creek water with a brisk current was altering the GPS coordinates on the phone. LE/FBI is experienced enough to know how water submersion may affect GPS. They were searching the creek, side by side, right after the girls were found. They were convinced something of importance was in the water.

I feel like we had an answer on the pinging but it was so far back I can’t spend my time trying to find it. Lol I’m zero help! I always thought the phone was in th creek... or I suspected that’s where LE found it.

 

[kidetect22]

If DNA were present, why would SO MUCH of this investigation need to be kept private? I can't help but think of the many cases based solely on circumstantial evidence that end in conviction. They have the girls' bodies, no doubt the COD, pretty airtight timeline of the crime, video/audio of the prime suspect approaching the victims (and presumably audio of an altercation and/or the crime itself). I don't think even OJ Simpson could escape such damning evidence.

If I were a family member, I would want the public to know every last horrible detail of what happened to my children so that the public would perhaps be haunted as much as I would be and in turn, try their hardest to serve justice to this psychopath. I would not want my child's case to quietly, respectfully slip away into cold case oblivion ... but MOO and hopefully, God willing, I will never have to face such a scenario.

All this makes me believe that:
a) there is no strong DNA source from the suspect
or
b) there is very strong evidence of a suspect they have in mind and are giving him zero chances to formulate any sort of defense that would hold up in court as they wait for his alibi to be disproved

Again, if a strong DNA sample were present at the crime scene, they wouldn't have to worry much about compromising a conviction given all of the other evidence they have, no? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit to add: In response to your question, I think ANY new information could help lead to a suspect

I agree- they have dna and they have their suspect in mind who had a great alibi and someone vouching for him and not willing to hand over a dna sample? Why would he? He’s got a solid alibi

 

[Hatfield]

I agree a million times over and stated it here many times that I believe they do know who BG is, but he has a solid alibi and isn’t budging. Whoever confirmed BG’s alibi is who law enforcement is hoping will break down in time and come forward. I hands down believe this was a SA crime, I tend to think LE is holding strong to not releasing more info because they want to have the most solid, credible case to prosecute BG when the time comes. I have to think the family agrees with LE as well. They would rather see this a-hole get the highest form of punishment even if it means waiting longer!!! All MO

With all due respect I dont see that at all. Because if LE knew who the BG was then they would get his DNA one way or another and test it against the DNA found at the crime scene (assuming they have this) and then charges would be immediately filed.

If they really knew who BG was then they would not rely on whatever he told them about his alibi.

With that said I do agree LE probably has had a few top candidates who they thought could be the BG but for whatever reason each one they thought about has made them not pursue them anymore.

JMO of course.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I think they have the phone too. What a huge error for BG imo. But one must wonder if he knew it was left there. kwim?

Something I’ve always wondered about regarding “pings”, is where they got that info so fast? Doesn’t it usually take time for phone companies to relinquish that info? I guess with the FBI involved so fast anything is possible but didn’t they mention the pinging phone very early on?


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I understand LE can emergency ping the phones so that is probably how they knew about the pings so quickly. However, I have seen some posters say there is only one phone tower but the case map shows more than one, which could explain the pinging on different towers.

Regarding what else being released would be helpful the following have all been mentioned:-

Profile
TOD
COD/MOD
Video showing gait
Whether vehicle was used
Route taken
Coloured sketch

I agree all of these would be useful. Hope I haven't omitted any.

The fact they are not releasing any of this does make me think they have BG in their sights and are awaiting more info on the alibi. I also don't believe they have identifiable perp DNA from the scene necessarily.

:cow:

 

[8771]

Sadly, if the COD is unusual, they may not want to reveal it to avoid creating fodder for copycats.

Does anyone have info/stats on occurrence of copycat crimes? I'm about to dive into a Google rabbit hole to look into this, only because I'm interested in the mindset behind this. This also begs the question as to whether it's more risky to release COD and risk copycat crimes or more risky to have this guy still at large himself. I'm sure LE has weighed their options and are confident in their decision, but seriously, I just want to bang my head on my desk sometimes out of frustration.

 

[cluciano63]

I am not a big believer in profiles. They seem to be educated guesses, often resemble most other profiles of criminals and only end up seeming important, Imo, after the fact...not to actually catch a suspect. Jmo