GUILTY IN - Amanda Blackburn, 28, pregnant, murdered, Indianapolis, 10 Nov 2015 #4

[MaxManning]

Just because they didn't find any shells it doesn't mean it was a revolver. The shooter could of picked up the shell cases.

I was thinking the same thing when they noted that was the reason. There are certainly alot of assumptions made when putting all the evidence together , to help you focus on what is most probable first.

My mistake was that I had thought they said they had recovered THE gun, not A gun. Big difference.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Thank you! Like a laptop bag or was it a duffel bag or something? TIA.

I don't know that it was ever disclosed. If it had a macbook in it, I'd guess it were a typical messenger/laptop bag.

anyone know what those two books were ? am i the only one curious ?

Christian couple? My first guess would be Bible & devotional. Although I don't think it's ever been disclosed what books they are.

 

[MaxManning]

Christian couple? My first guess would be Bible & devotional. Although I don't think it's ever been disclosed what books they are.

So it was likely whatever was already in the bag, not something they saw around the house and thought "hmmm, this might be a good read". I guess I wasn't thinking that it was a laptop bag, I was thinking they came in with a bag of some sort and started putting things in it, which would mean the books were chosen. What you are saying makes more sense.

 

[MJPeony]

Definitely agree with the likelihood of it being a computer messenger bag of sorts. My guess would be that it was Davey's bag. Amanda probably didn't need to keep her computer/laptop in a bag since she didn't work away from home. The irony of the bag likely containing Christian-themed books of Davey's is amazing. Hopefully they will be good prison reading material.

 

[aa9511]

Does anyone know how I can get to the Freddie Gray trial forum in here? I tried the "search" but it's pulling up old threads.

 

[magnolia]

Does anyone know how I can get to the Freddie Gray trial forum in here? I tried the "search" but it's pulling up old threads.

The original thread was closed. I don't think a new trial thread has been started.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Christian couple? My first guess would be Bible & devotional. Although I don't think it's ever been disclosed what books they are.

Nondenominational Christians are usually very attached to their bibles. Most times it signifies when they accepted Jesus as their savior. I have the date I accepted Jesus written in mine. So if that was Amanda's bible they stole, it would be very personal and noted that it was taken. I generally don't do this but I know a lot of Christian's who do write very personal information in their bible for safekeeping or later reference. So taking it would be a personal violation of the person who it was taken from. Kinda of like someone going thru their undergarments drawer. If they ever found who did it, I would think if it was Amanda's then Davey would want it back....maybe to give Weston...so he could try to understand what kind of person his mother was.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

What might be the reason we don't have camera footage of the sebring approaching and leaving the blackburn's ? if there is not footage of that car coming and going, is it possible that other cars might have come and gone ?

There are witnesses that say they saw LT on the Blackburn's porch or stoop...I don't think LT has a rats chance in hell in getting out of the murder charge...his phone was there...witnesses...DNA possibly..other evidence...even if the hearsay doesn't play in...this guy is going to jail for a very long long time. I supposed a good lawyer might try the defense you mention above...IE: other cars could have come and gone...but I think the jury will see right thru it.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I don't understand your concerns. Reasonable doubt of what? Doubt that LT was the triggerman as opposed to JW or DG?

I supposed a lawyer could say ABull was there with LT and he killed AB...and he didn't have a phone with him to track him...that is a very real possibility....but if ABull's phone is recorded in another location at the same time...that ends that theory.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I thought they had the gun. But you are right, they only have the picture of him with a revolver, right ? The gun they have is not a revolver.

Was the gun found a few streets away a revolver ?

I think Bessie stated before that they never mentioned anything else about the gun being found on the 2900 block of W 42nd Street...only that it was a gun found...my guess is that yes that is in fact the weapon that was used to kill AB...does anyone know where on the other street (what the exact address) was that the other neighbor's saw a man with a hoddie walking.

I suspect LT walked up Sunmeadow Ln to the east and met the Sebring at the corner and threw the gun when he got in the car.

 

[bessie]

I think Bessie stated before that they never mentioned anything else about the gun being found on the 2900 block of W 42nd Street...only that it was a gun found...my guess is that yes that is in fact the weapon that was used to kill AB...does anyone know where on the other street (what the exact address) was that the other neighbor's saw a man with a hoddie walking.

I suspect LT walked up Sunmeadow Ln to the east and met the Sebring at the corner and threw the gun when he got in the car.

I'm not sure that scenario works. The man who saw the car pick him up was on Sunmeadow Way, a little past the corner of SuCo. (I don't want to type the address here. It's on the pdf p. 17 The car was heading east, picked up LT, and turned around to exit west. It's all so close, though. Who's to say they didn't drive up Kessler a block and then turn on to 42nd to ditch the gun.

Something else I noticed and meant to say the other day, the first house robbed was two or three doors west of AB's house. The house where LT was seen by the man's trash walking toward AB's house is two or three doors in the opposite direction. In other words, AB's house is in between the two, which means LT didn't take a straight path from house number 1 to AB's house. So maybe he checked out the houses at the very end of the cds before he went to AB's.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/2...2!3m1!1s0x886b568f8cb926af:0x58ef2478ec5716e2

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Hearsay is a statement made out of court that is offered in court as evidence to prove the truth of the matter asserted. http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/hearsay

So, if we were down the road, and the informant repeated what LT stated during his testimony in court, that would be hearsay. However, there are some key exceptions which permit hearsay testimony in court (see the link above). These exceptions may come into play if the case goes to trial.

As known to the public, the case may be "weak," but there's a lot the State has which isn't going to be publicized. Further, it's more of a circumstantial case than hearsay. The other persons are not going to get on the stand and say, "LT said he killed her." Instead, they will be walked through the chain of events, and asked if Amanda was alive when they left. The defense will then have the opportunity to highlight to the jury that they cooperated to get a deal. It's up to the jury to weed through the BS to get to what they believe happened.

Here is a good script for what the jury would hear at trial about direct vs. circumstantial evidence. A murder case most certainly can be won without direct evidence. https://www.nycourts.gov/judges/cji/1-General/CJI2d.Circumstantial_Evidence.pdf

If multiple witnesses get on the stand and say LT murdered Amanda, he's not getting off. Given the speed of this case and how closely LE played it to the vest, I would bet good money they have strong evidence and everyone involved will strongly be held accountable. We have a perception that people "get off" on cases far more than they actually do. :twocents:

Based on the info available right at this moment, I would vote not guilty if I were on the jury in this trial.

I'm sure there will be a lot more evidence at trial. I sure hope so anyway!

 

[BrownRice]

Something else I noticed and meant to say the other day, the first house robbed was two or three doors west of AB's house. The house where LT was seen by the man's trash walking toward AB's house is two or three doors in the opposite direction. In other words, AB's house is in between the two, which means LT didn't take a straight path from house number 1 to AB's house. So maybe he checked out the houses at the very end of the cds before he went to AB's.

That's new to me. That's interesting...

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Something else I noticed and meant to say the other day, the first house robbed was two or three doors west of AB's house. The house where LT was seen by the man's trash walking toward AB's house is two or three doors in the opposite direction. In other words, AB's house is in between the two, which means LT didn't take a straight path from house number 1 to AB's house. So maybe he checked out the houses at the very end of the cds before he went to AB's.

Thanks for the info Bessie, that is something I didn't realize either. One assumes the house were in progression. Sounds like he did do so surveying of the neighborhood.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I'm not sure that scenario works. The man who saw the car pick him up was on Sunmeadow Way, a little past the corner of SuCo. (I don't want to type the address here. It's on the pdf p. 17 The car was heading east, picked up LT, and turned around to exit west. It's all so close, though. Who's to say they didn't drive up Kessler a block and then turn on to 42nd to ditch the gun.

I agree to disagree. I may have my directions mixed up...I'm not that familiar with Indy. I was referring to making a right hand turn off Sunnyfield Ct on to SunMeadow Way. According to the PC, the guy that went back to his house after seeing LT (who say them back into the driveway and drive west) lives in that direction. I didn't realize this either, SunMeadow is named Court, Way, and Lane in different sections.

Could it be possible he traveled up to 42nd street between the time he left AB's house and the time the other criminals picked him up? He was seen on the 2900 block of Sunnyfield Ct at 7:05 am, then 5 minutes later (at 7:10 or 7:11 am) on the far end of the 2800 block of Sun Meadow Way. Could he have walked up to 42nd Street and then started walking back down SunMeadow Way.



https://www.google.com/maps/place/2...2!3m1!1s0x886b568f8cb926af:0x58ef2478ec5716e2

 

[MJPeony]

I was following much more carefully in the first few weeks, and so I apologize if I'm out of the loop here. But I was thinking today about the case and wondering why LT (presumably) would have stayed back at the house with AB while the other guys left to go to the ATM. I originally thought it was clearly b/c they were hoping the PIN she gave them was accurate, or because he wanted to rape her (presumably), but I'm having second thoughts on both of those theories.

It seems like an enormous risk to me. Thieves generally get stuff and get out asap. It was also getting light out soon at that point- already not dark anymore. LT did not have history of rape or sexual assault. Many a thief (most, at least TMK) will take wallets and credit cards w/out even seeing the victim at all and the thief still takes it. Yes, better odds of $400 bucks if you can finagle the code out of the victim, but.... The risk of hanging around just was so huge. SO huge. Multiple break-ins that could have been in process of being reported. One a couple houses down even. Cops could be literally on the way. I can no longer make sense of why LT stayed behind.

Help me out?

 

[MaxManning]

I was following much more carefully in the first few weeks, and so I apologize if I'm out of the loop here. But I was thinking today about the case and wondering why LT (presumably) would have stayed back at the house with AB while the other guys left to go to the ATM. I originally thought it was clearly b/c they were hoping the PIN she gave them was accurate, or because he wanted to rape her (presumably), but I'm having second thoughts on both of those theories.

It seems like an enormous risk to me. Thieves generally get stuff and get out asap. It was also getting light out soon at that point- already not dark anymore. LT did not have history of rape or sexual assault. Many a thief (most, at least TMK) will take wallets and credit cards w/out even seeing the victim at all and the thief still takes it. Yes, better odds of $400 bucks if you can finagle the code out of the victim, but.... The risk of hanging around just was so huge. SO huge. Multiple break-ins that could have been in process of being reported. One a couple houses down even. Cops could be literally on the way. I can no longer make sense of why LT stayed behind.

Help me out?

I think the PIN is a good reason, as it was noted a few times they "wanted more money". I take that to mean they wanted cash, not items they then had to sell for cash. Someone had to stay with her, in case she lied about the PIN. Also, after they discovered it was a murder, Watson and Gordon had to be convinced by ABull to go back. Given how long it took for police to actually get there, it would seem that their assessment of how much time they had was rather accurate.

True, LT hasn't raped or sexually assaulted anyone, but he had a public indecency prior for exposing himself to someone in a target store. I'd say that's an offense that might not seem unlikely to be on a serial rapist's rap sheet. He's 18 or whatever and just getting started ?

I think everything they did was quite risky and could be seen as both messy and brazen. Burglary is one thing, murder is another. It's likely they are used to burglarizing all the time and the cases not even getting investigated. These guys likely know this, and that's maybe why they are in no hurry and a bit sloppy. Once it becomes murder, now you have LE using cell phone tower records, DNA, etc etc. So, if they thought this was business as usual, doesn't surprise me they weren't in a big hurry.

Do police respond immediately to a burglary that's already occurred ? If they cased this area, they would likely know when the residents come/go. That part seems to be something they were very right about, whether by dumb luck or not, -- the police weren't going to be rushing out anytime soon.

What time did police get to the San Clemente residence to investigate that burglary ? Maybe that gives us a better idea of a response time. I'd not be surprised if there is a different response for a burglary in progress as opposed to a burglary that's already done.

 

[al66pine]

....True, LT hasn't raped or sexually assaulted anyone, but he had a public indecency prior for exposing himself to someone in a target store. I'd say that's an offense that might not seem unlikely to be on a serial rapist's rap sheet. He's 18 or whatever and just getting started ? ....

MM
You've made several good points about this case, but pls allow me to knit-pick one little part of your post.

^ sbm Do we or LE know as a fact that LT has not sexually assaulted anyone?
An 18 y/o could have one or more SA arrests as a juvie that would not be public knowledge.
Perhaps could have been 'adjudicated delinquent' as having committed one or more SA's - as a juvie. IDK.
IIUC, only his arrests from age 18y/o+ (or those where he was younger but charged as adult) would be public record. JM2cts, could be wrong.

Mos' def' agreeing w you - after a public indecency arrest, SA seems a somewhat likely progression.

Pls keep sharing your thoughts. Glad you're on W/S.

 

[MJPeony]

Thanks MM for your thoughts.

Some interesting points. Although it still doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I don't understand the risk of staying at the house in relation to needing cash. They needed cash, yes, but ATM's only let you withdraw $400 max anyway. Truly not worth the risk of dealing with a fighting victim. A fighting victim! Get the h*ll out of dodge and go somewhere else. Instead they turned it into a virtual hostage situation. The hostage element is a whole new level and it's tripping me up. It's bizarre. These guys, from what I've read, are young and sloppy (getting nabbed on security cams, ATM cams, leaving cigar packages behind, etc). Now they've started taking hostages while risking being found out? Weird. Couple hundred dollars isn't worth it. If you must, take the wallet like most other thieves and run. Take the laptop like most other thieves and run. Kicking around trying to get your victim to give you the right PIN number is lunacy. They had no guarantee she'd give it to them anyway.

These guys are clearly not that bright, but LT staying behind is not making sense to me.

 

[Sherwood Park]

Thanks MM for your thoughts.

Some interesting points. Although it still doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I don't understand the risk of staying at the house in relation to needing cash. They needed cash, yes, but ATM's only let you withdraw $400 max anyway. Truly not worth the risk of dealing with a fighting victim. A fighting victim! Get the h*ll out of dodge and go somewhere else. Instead they turned it into a virtual hostage situation. The hostage element is a whole new level and it's tripping me up. It's bizarre. These guys, from what I've read, are young and sloppy (getting nabbed on security cams, ATM cams, leaving cigar packages behind, etc). Now they've started taking hostages while risking being found out? Weird. Couple hundred dollars isn't worth it. If you must, take the wallet like most other thieves and run. Take the laptop like most other thieves and run. Kicking around trying to get your victim to give you the right PIN number is lunacy. They had no guarantee she'd give it to them anyway.

These guys are clearly not that bright, but LT staying behind is not making sense to me.

I have the same questions as you do. This case has seemed odd to me from the beginning. I still don't understand why they'd be robbing homes at that time of the morning, must be a difference in neighbourhood behaviour because where I live that time frame would be the worst time to enter people's homes. Everyone is waking up, buses have already began running, people are jogging, taking dogs out for a pee, clearing snow off their cars, etc. These guys would look very out of place.
What did the men intent to do with AB after they got the money from her account (if she hadn't been murdered)? That's what I haven't read so far unless I missed it in another post.