IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #2

[IceIce9]

Saving this excellent post.
Hmmm....
We should try an experiment and see if SA's next interview will claim that as a reason ?
I already mentioned neuropathy in the feet.
Anything else we've missed ?

I am certain that he is colorblind, has presbyopia, suffers from neuropathy of his hands and feet, and has Meniere’s disease that affects his balance. Probably an olfactory disorder that causes him to lose his sense of smell as he couldn't detect the ocean breeze through the open window.

 

[Medstudies]

Saving this excellent post.
Hmmm....
We should try an experiment and see if SA's next interview will claim that as a reason ?
I already mentioned neuropathy in the feet.
Anything else we've missed ?

Or early Parkinson’s.

Yes, you can definitely tell if something is clear, but it depends on the color behind it.
If the blue sky was in the background, it might be harder to tell.
My daughter tends to see shades of green as blue rather than the other way around. It depends on the shade, though. A true green she can recognize but if it is a blue green she has trouble differentiating.

Imo

and then the question on the color vision - is it a genetic linked deficiency in his case or is it an acquired loss due to medical disease (macula/stroke/optic nerve)?

and let’s see past and current ophthalmic work up with Ishihara/Hardy Rand Rittler/Farnsworth testing. BTW: Malingering is easily detected by a qualified examiner.

depth perception typically declines slightly in middle age (with onset of presbyopia/need for bifocals, readers)
but this can easily be tested with stereopsis exam (fly test)

and with that said, most people ADAPT naturally to these changes or deficiencies...

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Somebody please fetch me a plunger! This wall of...excrement is getting to be way past ridiculous. What about the point of balance now. The tipping point that Chloe would have had to have been past to just FALL out the window. A fulcrum, I think? If most of her was inside the window, she would not have fallen? A good portion of her body had to have been hanging out of that window. I'm no physics expert, but I do have a bit of common sense.

It now sounds like the story has switched with her sitting on the windowsill ("metal railing") rather than on the wooden railing. If she was on the metal railing as is being said now, she had to have had a good portion of her body out the window.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Saving this excellent post.
Hmmm....
We should try an experiment and see if SA's next interview will claim that as a reason ?
I already mentioned neuropathy in the feet.
Anything else we've missed ?

SA will blame RCCL for having tinted windows even though every cruise ship in the business has them. Because one very careless passenger who might have some degree of color blindness that prevented him from noticing that a window was open, Royal Caribbean should stop putting tinted windows on their ships. The comfort of every other passenger should be completely ignored; no other passengers matter. They simply have to contend with intense glare, heat, and humidity because the windows should not be tinted, nor should any windows be operable for ventilation and comfort

 

[oviedo]

yep. It will be interesting to see the cctv of him down on her level, with arm outstretched. Trying so hard to reach that window but unable to reach it.

and yet: @LietKynes posted this image (post 643) (attached)

it sure doesn’t look like that lower window is recessed so deep to make it difficult for him to tap it. Seriously. That young child in the photo? His left hand is pressed against the window with a full bend at the elbow.

And yea sure, SA is a BIG guy but, but exaggerate much?

Moo: much hyperbole

so this is a very good depiction IMO of the arms that could have been balancing Chloe on the ledge/banister - but he was only holding her with one arm by the latest account - so where was his other hand? feeling for the invisible glass and then he let go? she squirmed? in either case, she would be way to close to the ledge for him not be negligent. I may email one of the reporters and ask them if he had two hands on her at all times....
JMO

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

It now sounds like the story has switched with her sitting on the windowsill ("metal railing") rather than on the wooden railing. If she was on the metal railing as is being said now, she had to have had a good portion of her body out the window.

Who would even do that?????? And more importantly, WHY. To "tap on the glass" is not a good enough reason, IMO.

 

[IceIce9]

I found a tw it ter account for a family member and it is interesting to see the comments. At first 100% in support of the family, then after they began blaming the cruise line some negative comments appeared. Then after grandpa’s interviews lots of negative comments.

In the tw it ter account that has now been deleted, there were several comments stating that open windows on cruise ships would now be a thing of the past. They predicted that all balconies would be completely enclosed and no windows would open, ac a result of this case.

But are they expecting that no one will be allowed on open decks as well?

That would be the end of the cruise ship industry, as no one would go on a cruise on an enclosed sea tanker.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

so this is a very good depiction IMO of the arms that could have been balancing Chloe on the ledge/banister - but he was only holding her with one arm by the latest account - so where was his other hand? feeling for the invisible glass and then he let go? she squirmed? in either case, she would be way to close to the ledge for him not be negligent. I may email one of the reporters and ask them if he had two hands on her at all times....
JMO

SA himself flat out says he only had one hand on her when she fell and demonstrates it where he had one hand closed while the other was around her as he leaned forward. It starts at about 2:45 describing how he was holding her when she fell:
Grandfather charged in girl's cruise ship death says he's colorblind, calls outcome of case "inconsequential"

 

[MsBetsy]

Or early Parkinson’s.

and then the question on the color vision - is it a genetic linked deficiency in his case or is it an acquired loss due to medical disease (macula/stroke/optic nerve)?

and let’s see past and current ophthalmic work up with Ishihara/Hardy Rand Rittler/Farnsworth testing. BTW: Malingering is easily detected by a qualified examiner.

depth perception typically declines slightly in middle age (with onset of presbyopia/need for bifocals, readers)
but this can easily be tested with stereopsis exam (fly test)

and with that said, most people ADAPT naturally to these changes or deficiencies...

I've never heard of color blindness being due to anything other than genetics. It's usually something one is born with, not something that develops later in life. At least as far as I know.

Imo

 

[oviedo]

I wonder if any of the witnesses will speak before the hearing?? I'd be curious to know if anyone saw him holding the baby with both hands, or one hand, and was she fully outside of the window, perched on the window ledge, standing on the handrail, was he swinging her around or in and out of the window? what all took place before the fall besides what we heard in the interview (she was walking across the pool area and he was following her). It could be worse than we can even imagine.
JMO

 

[Medstudies]

In the tw it ter account that has now been deleted, there were several comments stating that open windows on cruise ships would now be a thing of the past. They predicted that all balconies would be completely enclosed and no windows would open, ac a result of this case.

But are they expecting that no one will be allowed on open decks as well?

That would be the end of the cruise ship industry, as no one would go on a cruise on an enclosed sea tanker.

And hey if we’re gonna go after cruise ships and for being death traps, let’s go after all boats. People fall out, drown, get hit, crash all too frequently. Wtah?

what this case comes down to - MOO- thousands and thousands of people have walked this particular deck - on countless occasions - and not one other single child has fallen overboard to their death. And I’m willing to bet there may have been a few mischievous children aboard at times, a few parents that consumed some alcohol, some people who were colorblind ( or straight up) blind, people with cognitive disease, etc. - and not one other child has been dropped to their tragic and horrific death.

MOO- shame on MW and his vilification of RCCL, it is dishonest and disgusting

 

[sl222]

Agreed.

Next, I'm expecting to hear he has Neuropathy in both feet and struggles to stand firmly upright.
Any other ailments he has yet to disclose ?
Poor man-- everyone seems to be so hard on him and making him suffer through interviews and questioning.

It's as if SA is the victim, here !

Exactly. I was expecting them to say colorblind a long time ago. But in the 4 months, almost 5, they've never said it until now. I'm sure he has had all kinds of medical testing in these months to determine any kind of contributing factor. 51 is young. How many 51 year olds or even 61 year olds are so impaired. I'm surprised the interviewer didn't ask him if he had had anything at all to drink.

This interview is also edited. But even so, a statement analysis expert would rip it to shreds and probably will in the next day or so. I'll be looking for that. (I hope it's okay to mention that here. I joined WS specifically to talk about this case after following this and another one.)

It sounds like IF he really believed there was glass that despite his continually reaching for and not finding any, he still held to the idea that it must be there? He didn't have a lot of time to observe the wall of windows if coming directly from the pool area. But still a clear no-glass is hard to miss. If he thought that some windows were tinted and some clear, still, he had plenty of time to realize this one was open if he was RIGHT IN FRONT of it for 30 seconds. This is a stupid excuse. The man has no backbone whatsoever. He should just admit what he really did and stop floundering around helplessly seeking pity for what HE went through. He is completely unconvincing in all of his statements for good reason. I would think that the police officer father can already tell this.

 

[Medstudies]

I've never heard of color blindness being due to anything other than genetics. It's usually something one is born with, not something that develops later in life. At least as far as I know.

Imo

this is really a thing. And though I’m not verified- this is my area of clinical research. All things ophthalmology...
http://www.colorvisiontesting.com/w...uired-Color-Vision-Deficiencies-Simunovic.pdf

also: Acquired Colour Vision Defects - Colour Blind Awareness
....”colour blindness include Alzheimer’s disease, diabetes mellitus, glaucoma, leukaemia, liver disease, chronic alcoholism, macular degeneration, multiple sclerosis, Parkinson’s disease, sickle cell anaemia and retinitis pigmentosa.

Accidents or strokes that damage the retina or affect particular areas of the brain/eye can lead to colour blindness.

Medications such as antibiotics, barbiturates, anti-tuberculosis drugs, high blood pressure medications and several medications to treat nervous disorders may cause colour blindness.

 

[sl222]

SA will blame RCCL for having tinted windows even though every cruise ship in the business has them. ...

So an important point is whether he's been on cruises or this cruise before.

 

[sl222]

In some photos we've seen windows where the wooden rail is in the middle of the window, but on this ship, the rail is at the same level as the bottom of the window - I think - but not sure yet.

 

[MsBetsy]

Who would even do that?????? And more importantly, WHY. To "tap on the glass" is not a good enough reason, IMO.

I think many people would do something like that. I've seen parents leave their child unattended in cars, leave liquor or medicine cabinets unlocked allowing children access to danger, leave cleaning supplies unlocked in a cupboard accessible to young children, and even leave illegal substances right out on the coffee table with children around.
I have known parents to speed while driving with children in their car, drive under the influence with their children, and leave young children at home unattended for hours.

It happens every day, everywhere around the world.

So I really don't find it hard to believe that someone would lift up their child to bang on the glass on a window that is eleven stories high.

Imo

 

[sl222]

SA himself flat out says he only had one hand on her when she fell and demonstrates it where he had one hand closed while the other was around her as he leaned forward. It starts at about 2:45 describing how he was holding her when she fell:
Grandfather charged in girl's cruise ship death says he's colorblind, calls outcome of case "inconsequential"

Also weird in the interview is when he is asked to demonstrate how he was holding her, his hands are balled up into fists rather than showing the way a child would be held.

Body language also noticeably defensive when he completely folds his hands across his entire midsection. He can't even look at the man half the time. And is still in serious denial, saying that this "process" is carrying him along now and he has not had a chance to fully come to grips with the event. This is a trainwreck.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Also weird in the interview is when he is asked to demonstrate how he was holding her, his hands are balled up into fists rather than showing the way a child would be held.

Body language also noticeably defensive when he completely folds his hands across his entire midsection. He can't even look at the man half the time. And is still in serious denial, saying that this "process" is carrying him along now and he has not had a chance to fully come to grips with the event. This is a trainwreck.

I'd love to see what one of those body language experts would say about both SA's and the parents' interviews.

 

[SeattleStew]

yep. It will be interesting to see the cctv of him down on her level, with arm outstretched. Trying so hard to reach that window but unable to reach it.

and yet: @LietKynes posted this image (post 643) (attached)

it sure doesn’t look like that lower window is recessed so deep to make it difficult for him to tap it. Seriously. That young child in the photo? His left hand is pressed against the window with a full bend at the elbow.

And yea sure, SA is a BIG guy but, but exaggerate much?

Moo: much hyperbole

The window Chloe fell from was like this one, with the lower window with bars:

 

[they'll get you]

So an important point is whether he's been on cruises or this cruise before.

This is a very important point.
RBBM