IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #2

[LietKynes]

SugarPlum, I have no idea why he went on CBS, but is it possible that he is receiving compensation for the interview? If so, that would be the motivation to do it. The Daily Mail published a new photo of Chloe a couple of days ago and they said " This is the final haunting photo of tragic Chloe Weigand ...The bitter-sweet image obtained exclusively by DailyMail.com". If it was 'obtained exclusively by Daily Mail", it is possible that it was sold to them. Not sure what else the motivation would be of someone giving it to the tabloid.

bbm

It looks like $$$ is the prime factor in this case moving forward.
We don't know about before.
But if that's how it is now-- why not before ?
And it looks like the lawsuit is ongoing.
Again it's up to the PR prosecutors to determine and not the public.
So we wait.
There needs to be justice for Chloe if that's what is needed.

 

[oviedo]

Next we’ll hear the wind caught her and and and

yep and my guess is the attorney is reading this forum - interesting how one of our sleuthers mentioned eyesight issues (not sure if it was specifically color blindness) and poof - the interview relates the colorblindness he has and that's the reason. Next we will see if they come out with reasons why he couldn't tell the ledge was actually a real ledge and that there was something underneath it......
JMO

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Attorney: Girl Fell to Death From Open Window on Cruise Ship
snipped - note the hand position of the man in the picture - the video showed him with his hands outside the window and motioning up and down.
Girl Fell to Death From Open Window on Cruise Ship: Lawyer

An 18-month-old Indiana girl who fell to her death from the 11th story of a cruise ship in Puerto Rico plunged from a window inexplicably left open in a children's play area, the family's attorney said Tuesday. Police in Puerto Rico had said Monday that Chloe Wiegand apparently slipped from her grandfather's hands Sunday as he was holding her out ........

I have to stop. I’m getting physically ill from his stupidity.
I’ll be back later.

 

[oviedo]

What color are the cruise ship's windows on the inside?

And - per the grandfather's information from his eye doctor, what type of color blindness does he have?

MOO but this may be very important to the case.

You can see for yourself - this is also in our media thread

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Did he tell his lawyer that he was going to give this interview? Any criminal defense attorney worth his or her salt is going to advise a client, especially one charged with homicide, to NOT give any media interviews. Or did SA decide on his own that he should give an interview to make himself look better, the way Prince Andrew did (and we know how that worked out for the prince)?

It sounds like this was done by Winkleman who specifically isn't SA's lawyer and why I think Chloe's parents may be trying to get him convicted but Chloe's mom couldn't say that to her own mom. If Chloe's prosecutor mom didn't want her mom's husband convicted I can't imagine that she'd have any part in encouraging him to do any sort of interview like this. Chloe's mom's initial reaction was apparently have SA not say anything and also the parents seemed to have had him refuse a breathalyzer while taking pictures of the scene, which now that they've learned more it's like they've done a 180 by encouraging him to not only make statements but to make them publicly and are giving the video to media that views it with credulity as this guy interviewing sure seems to imply that SA looks negligent.

 

[LietKynes]

If an 18 month old child fell to her death because a caregiver sat or stood her on an apartment balcony railing would anyone be taking the side of the caregiver?

The caregiver would say, “There was no sign, there should have been a sign saying not to sit on the railing.”

DH and I stayed at a hotel many years ago and I took a photo of him outside the room in the hallway; next to a railing and metal curving fence that was just below shoulder height for me.
In the photo, a lady stands at the opposite side of the hotel also next to the railing-- except she's holding a baby.
Younger than Chloe --about 6-7 months ?
Anyway, she's holding (her?) child in her arms and leaning over to look at the plaza and fountain below.

The fountain and deco sculptures were a beautiful sight.

But after looking through our vacay photos after we were home-- I noticed that lady and just cringed.
Baby was held quite tightly, but he/she was in front of the lady held in one arm, and she was leaning forward for a better view.
Her other arm was holding onto the railing.
Just dangerous to see.

We were about 8 stories up and the hotel was arranged in a circle with the balconies open in the middle to the fountains and sculptures on the floor .

And as far as I remember-- there were no signs anywhere saying, "do not sit or stand on the railing-- and do not dangle your baby over the railing ".

One would surmise the hotel assumed that people weren't that stupid !!

 

[Montrealaise]

If an 18 month old child fell to her death because a caregiver sat or stood her on an apartment balcony railing would anyone be taking the side of the caregiver?

The caregiver would say, “There was no sign, there should have been a sign saying not to sit on the railing.”

Or how about this: if an adult climbed over the railing (he'd have to climb on top of a chair or table to do this) and then sat in the window, slipped and feel to his death - would anyone be saying that it was the cruise line's fault?

 

[SpanishInquisition]

DH and I stayed at a hotel many years ago and I took a photo of him outside the room in the hallway; next to a railing and metal curving fence that was just below shoulder height for me.
In the photo, a lady stands at the opposite side of the hotel also next to the railing-- except she's holding a baby.
Younger than Chloe --about 6-7 months ?
Anyway, she's holding (her?) child in her arms and leaning over to look at the plaza and fountain below.

The fountain and deco sculptures were a beautiful sight.

But after looking through our vacay photos after we were home-- I noticed that lady and just cringed.
Baby was held quite tightly, but he/she was in front of the lady held in one arm, and she was leaning forward for a better view.
Her other arm was holding onto the railing.
Just cringe-worthy.

We were about 8 stories up and the hotel was arranged in a circle with the balconies open in the middle to the fountains and sculptures on the floor .

And as far as I remember-- there were no signs anywhere saying, "do not sit or stand on the railing-- and do not dangle your baby over the railing ".

One would surmise the hotel assumed that people weren't that stupid !!

Also with the way this is going, it seems like it's headed to Chloe not even being on the railing when she fell undermining what's been said for months. Even if there should be warnings on railings, you don't put yourself or children on windowsills. Even accepting there should be warnings on railings - which I don't remotely accept - it sounds like SA went beyond that with Chloe being put over the railing and now mention of metal railing (AKA the windowsill).

 

[LietKynes]

ITA - it is yet another version the attorney has spun IMO. there are so many I can't keep track..

Agreed.
It's like a carousel of fools.
Not sure if the lawyer is the biggest one or SA ?
"Let's see who can come up with the biggest 'story' " ?

So now it turns out that Chloe didn't ask to be picked up but rather SA did it unilaterally. He claims he couldn't touch the glass therefore she couldn't touch the glass, which this seems totally false:
"So she's down at the — looking at the — out the window, and the glass. I bent down by her, and then we always, like, when you're — whenever we were at hockey games, we would bang on the glass, and it was fun, you know? So when I knelt down to be with her at that level, I couldn't reach the glass, really, with my fingertips, so I knew she couldn't. So that's when I decided I'd pick her up."

Now I see why he was charged as he was holding her in an inherently dangerous way by using only one arm while moving his body and swinging the other arm, which even if there was a window there she could have died hitting her head on the floor:
"I had her, and I was trying to knock on the glass. And at that point I'm like, 'Well, I'm going to have to lean farther for her to be able to reach it,' right? Because I thought it was farther out than I expected," he said.
Anello said at one point he had one arm around her and the other arm was trying to knock on the glass.
"I think that's the point where she slipped out of me," Anello said. "At no point during that whole incident did I think that, well, she fell out."

So now the reporter says she was over the railing, which if he was colorblind he should have been more diligent:
"The video that CBS News saw, and I saw myself, appears to show you holding Chloe above the railing and over the railing..."

Now totally false saying he wouldn't do anything dangerous with Chloe but his own description is totally dangerous: "I wouldn't mess around with Chloe in — that kind of — or anybody with a dangerous kind of — never." Chloe didn't even asked to be picked up, yet he does it for over 30 seconds while holding her in a totally unsafe way. I wonder if he's dropped Chloe or other children before as he seems totally reckless in his handling of his own granddaughter by his own description of how he handled her.

Grandfather charged in girl's cruise ship death says he's colorblind, calls outcome of case "inconsequential"

bbm

So in a way , SA is admitting he lied in the beginning when he claimed that Chloe asked him to pick her up to the window ?
And now we are to believe he's suddenly color blind ?

 

[LietKynes]

Grandfather charged in girl's cruise ship death says he's colorblind, calls outcome of case "inconsequential"
snipped and BBM
Last Updated Nov 26, 2019 9:25 AM EST

Anello said at one point he had one arm around her and the other arm was trying to knock on the glass.

"I think that's the point where she slipped out of me," Anello said. "At no point during that whole incident did I think that, well, she fell out. It was, like, it was unbelievable. It's like it disappeared. It's like the glass disappeared."

"I don't know if there's a feeling more helpless than watching her fall —," Begnaud said.

"No," Anello said. "This seems like it's all not real......

Snipped for focus
bbm

Not sure I'd use the word "Inconsequential" referring to the horrific death of what was essentially a baby. Smh.
Even if SA is referring to any penalties he might incur.

And now it's "...The glass DISAPPEARED..."
Holy heck; this SA is the most unfortunate of persons.
Not only did he dangle , drop, or let slip a baby to her death --- he's been stricken with color blindness and unable to sense when a window is open, but now whole window panes are vanishing like smoke in front of him.
So according to SA it's the ship's fault.
RCCL did this to him and to Chloe !
Unbelievable.

 

[MsFacetious]

Here's a colorblind simulator where you can load pictures and then see how they would look with various forms of colorblindness:
Toptal Color Blind Filter
I used a picture I found on Twitter so I can't link to it, but you can find pictures from there and you'll see that colorblind doesn't make you blind where regardless of the type of colorblindness you still see the shade from the tinting of the closed windows.

Awesome!
I'm also going to ask my husband and my daughter's boyfriend. Both are colorblind and neither are following the case. I'm going to ask them if they can tell which windows are open from the pictures.

Also - I am not sure that colorblindness will fly here - you're on the 11th floor of a cruise ship, if a window is open in front of you you can still feel the ocean breeze coming through. Sounds like the grandfather has some other issues going on.

For fun, a color blind test.

Yes I can understand being colorblind or wearing polarized lenses causing you to not know a window is open. UNTIL you walk up to the window and there isn't a breeze. Or you can't touch the glass.

When one sense is diminished the others are heightened to make up for it. Someone being colorblind isn't something people will guess because it isn't obvious. In fact, Grandpa's line of work wouldn't even be doable if he was that incapacitated.

 

[LietKynes]

Grandfather Charged in Girl’s Cruise Ship Fall Says He Thought Window Was Closed

Grandpa speaks out- i don't know if this has already been posted: SA states he thought the window was closed. He states he is color blind which may have led him to believe the window was closed.

Agreed.

Next, I'm expecting to hear he has Neuropathy in both feet and struggles to stand firmly upright.
Any other ailments he has yet to disclose ?
Poor man-- everyone seems to be so hard on him and making him suffer through interviews and questioning.

It's as if SA is the victim, here !

 

[LietKynes]

Yeah, Winkleman is now trying to set a narrative that goes with that upcoming trial video IMO. First time we hear SA was holding her with one hand, she did not ask to be lifted up, he’s got a medical condition (colorblind) , she” slipped “ and he thought she was on the floor as he was “reaching for glass “ with his other hand.
Wow. He never takes any responsibility that he decided to do this act. He never says it’s his fault she is dead.
Does he and his attorney think the public is stupid?

MOO

bolding mine
Apparently they do think just that ! Incredible.
I think we all know who the idiots are in this sad case.

Wonder if deep down inside SA's mind -- if he's resentful at poor Chloe for 'making this trouble' for him ?
I also wondered if he was tasked with watching her -- on what should've also been SA's vacation, and it made him resent her ?
NOT excusing SA, not at all.


Reading through these comments.
Wondering what else the lawyer and SA are going to trot out next ?
They're throwing their Bool Sheet at the wall and see what sticks, eh ?
Imo.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Agreed.

Next, I'm expecting to hear he has Neuropathy in both feet and struggles to stand firmly upright.
Any other ailments he has yet to disclose ?
Poor man-- everyone seems to be so hard on him and making him suffer through interviews and questioning.

It's as if SA is the victim, here !

Yeah, that wouldn't surprise me since SA claims he couldn't touch/feel the bottom window that was undeniably there. SA claims since he couldn't touch/feel the bottom window it meant that Chloe couldn't reach the bottom window and that's why he lifted her up. It makes no sense at all that he couldn't feel a window that everyone admits is there unless he's now going to come up with some other excuse that will only actually make him look even worse.

 

[SugarPlumLairy]

Is twitter not allowed on this thread? I don't understand why the words tweet and retweeted are being broken up as if to bypass a filter.

I’m not sure. I’m new, saw it broken up like that and assumed it was site policy. ‍

 

[MsBetsy]

This is my understanding of color blindness too. So seems he would have seen a difference in the clear versus colored, just not been able to tell if green or blue. JMO

Yes, you can definitely tell if something is clear, but it depends on the color behind it.
If the blue sky was in the background, it might be harder to tell.
My daughter tends to see shades of green as blue rather than the other way around. It depends on the shade, though. A true green she can recognize but if it is a blue green she has trouble differentiating.

Imo

 

[Medstudies]

Colorblind or not, SA still took a terrible chance with Chloe's safety to place her where he did. And she died over "knocking on the glass"? Really? He NEEDED to knock on this cruise ship window? This case stinks out loud.

yep. It will be interesting to see the cctv of him down on her level, with arm outstretched. Trying so hard to reach that window but unable to reach it.

and yet: @LietKynes posted this image (post 643) (attached)

it sure doesn’t look like that lower window is recessed so deep to make it difficult for him to tap it. Seriously. That young child in the photo? His left hand is pressed against the window with a full bend at the elbow.

And yea sure, SA is a BIG guy but, but exaggerate much?

Moo: much hyperbole

 

[LietKynes]

yep and my guess is the attorney is reading this forum - interesting how one of our sleuthers mentioned eyesight issues (not sure if it was specifically color blindness) and poof - the interview relates the colorblindness he has and that's the reason. Next we will see if they come out with reasons why he couldn't tell the ledge was actually a real ledge and that there was something underneath it......
JMO

Saving this excellent post.
Hmmm....
We should try an experiment and see if SA's next interview will claim that as a reason ?
I already mentioned neuropathy in the feet.
Anything else we've missed ?

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Agreed.

Next, I'm expecting to hear he has Neuropathy in both feet and struggles to stand firmly upright.
Any other ailments he has yet to disclose ?
Poor man-- everyone seems to be so hard on him and making him suffer through interviews and questioning.

It's as if SA is the victim, here !

Somebody please fetch me a plunger! This wall of...excrement is getting to be way past ridiculous. What about the point of balance now. The tipping point that Chloe would have had to have been past to just FALL out the window. A fulcrum, I think? If most of her was inside the window, she would not have fallen? A good portion of her body had to have been hanging out of that window. I'm no physics expert, but I do have a bit of common sense.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

dbl post