IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #2

[MsBetsy]

Colorblind or not, SA still took a terrible chance with Chloe's safety to place her where he did. And she died over "knocking on the glass"? Really? He NEEDED to knock on this cruise ship window? This case stinks out loud.

Yes, this is why he is being charged. He needs to be held accountable for his actions.

It only took a moment, but his decision to put her up in the window cost the child and the family her life.

It's like any other case where someone's actions unintentionally cause death.
When someone decides to speed around a sharp curve in their car, loses control, and as a result they have an accident and their passenger ends up dead, they are responsible.

I don't think it matters if he was not impaired, although it would be worse if he was. It was just those few moments where he made the decision to lift her up and hold her to the window that ended the child's life and changed their lives forever.

People don't usually "get over" the death of a child. They just learn to live with it. To some people that is worse than doing any time in prison.

Imo

 

[Gardenista]

Then I would be surprised that Chloe's mother trusted him with her out of her sight.

Many people who have vision difficulties raise children independently.

 

[MsBetsy]

Then I would be surprised that Chloe's mother trusted him with her out of her sight.

Being color blind is nowhere near like being disabled.
Do we know what type he has? It's not uncommon and most people can do anything a person without it can do. Except maybe serve in the airforce.

Imo

 

[Medstudies]

Right. That makes NO sense. You wouldn't have to "search" but simply "look." He makes it sound like he looked all around him for some time; for a few seconds. Then he had time to see her fall "all the way down."

Also that statement makes him sound truly impaired if he had no idea where Chloe was. You don't just hold a child and then think "poof" they're gone. No responsible person would ever have to wonder that.

Each time he states "I thought there was glass" he slaps his leg. He says also that he keeps repeating that to himself to this day. Nope. This is his excuse and it's not true.

I too wondered why Winkleman referred to a metal rail when the rail is wood. It looks exactly like a ballet barre from the pictures. Metal??? That IS strange. Since as mentioned - the metal is part of the window.

Re the metal rail, that story has clearly changed.
Because his quote from July: “On Tuesday, a lawyer hired by the family revealed that Anello had put Chloe up on a wooden railing to let her ...”
Police investigating death of Indiana tot who fell from cruise ship have not ruled out murder | Daily Mail Online

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Many people who have vision difficulties raise children independently.

I agree.
But in this case I don't think any perception difficulties had anything to do with Chloe's death.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Being color blind is nowhere near like being disabled.
Do we know what type he has? It's not uncommon and most people can do anything a person without it can do. Except maybe serve in the airforce.

Imo

I don't think his color blindness or whatever else he has going on is the cause of Chloe's death. JMOO

 

[Kittybunny]

If Grandpa is really color blind, and that's what caused him to think the window was closed, why didn't that come out from the start? I'm not buying this latest excuse for SA's reckless actions. I wonder who put him up to this?

I saw them bring up the color blindness at the end of the interview today and yelled out "I knew it!" I mentioned this in the thread yesterday, that the only potential excuse I could buy for him not knowing the window was open was a visual impairment of some kind. I don't know the different types of color blindness, but it would have to be something that wouldn't let you see the difference between dark/light. And even then, still not buying it - sorry, even if he was completely blind, he should have felt the window was open with his other senses - hearing, smell, feeling a breeze, touch, anything!

I don't have a strong sense one way or another whether alcohol was involved or a factor. I think his court record of recklessness/lack of safety concern could speak to inherent risk-taking and carelessness in his personality. My personal feeling is that he may have had a drink or two; but it didn't influence him or cause him to drop Chloe, which is why his family advised him not to take a breathalyzer - because they would have found it, then it would have been game over, regardless of how little it was.

 

[brazgal]

I remember reading early on there were medical issues either with her birth or early on. I can't seem to find that any longer... but it stuck out to me. Oh i wish we had those early threads available

She was born Dec. 13, 2017, in South Bend, Indiana, weighing merely 4 pounds, 6 ounces, and was cared for by Beacon Children's Hospital, Newborn Intensive Care Unit. Even at birth, Chloe was a true fighter, overcoming every medical obstacle she faced.
View Chloe Wiegand's Obituary on kpcnews.com and share memories

 

[BeachSky]

The news said they view his medical records and he is color blind. Also wondering if he has issues with depth perception.

If SA was this impaired, his interaction with Chloe should of been
supervised. This window banging plan of his would of been denied. If you know you are impaired...seems selfish to drag another person into the pushing of your envelope!

MOO

 

[Gardenista]

I agree.
But in this case I don't think any perception difficulties had anything to do with Chloe's death.

It could very well be. The main thing that makes me think he has depth perception issues (as someone with this problem) is he said he looked to the floor thinking she would be there.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Re the metal rail, that story has clearly changed.
Because his quote from July: “On Tuesday, a lawyer hired by the family revealed that Anello had put Chloe up on a wooden railing to let her ...”
Police investigating death of Indiana tot who fell from cruise ship have not ruled out murder | Daily Mail Online

Wooden railings are on every cruise ship I've been on. They are all over the ship and are intended for passenger safety. Wooden railings line the alleyways where there are staterooms. Passengers who might be unsteady due to rough seas can grab onto the waist-high bars for balance. The wood railings are not intended for sitting or standing by anyone. They are similar to a typical round hand rail that most people have in their homes. Depending on the location of the railings on the ship, some might be higher like the railing along the windows where Chloe fell. Those railings are there as a barrier and for passengers' safety. Anyone with a lick of common sense should know better than to sit or stand on the railing - or place a child on the railing. SA seems like an arrogant and stubborn man and probably wouldn't have paid much attention to signage even if it had been there.

"Metal railing" describes the window ledge that is on the outside of the ship. The earliest comment from a crew member suggested that Grandpa was rocking Chloe back & forth on the window sill. If that's the case, she was definitely outside the window, and SA had to have known that the window was open!

 

[Kittybunny]

So now it turns out that Chloe didn't ask to be picked up but rather SA did it unilaterally. He claims he couldn't touch the glass therefore she couldn't touch the glass, which this seems totally false:
"So she's down at the — looking at the — out the window, and the glass. I bent down by her, and then we always, like, when you're — whenever we were at hockey games, we would bang on the glass, and it was fun, you know? So when I knelt down to be with her at that level, I couldn't reach the glass, really, with my fingertips, so I knew she couldn't. So that's when I decided I'd pick her up."

Now I see why he was charged as he was holding her in an inherently dangerous way by using only one arm while moving his body and swinging the other arm, which even if there was a window there she could have died hitting her head on the floor:
"I had her, and I was trying to knock on the glass. And at that point I'm like, 'Well, I'm going to have to lean farther for her to be able to reach it,' right? Because I thought it was farther out than I expected," he said.
Anello said at one point he had one arm around her and the other arm was trying to knock on the glass.
"I think that's the point where she slipped out of me," Anello said. "At no point during that whole incident did I think that, well, she fell out."

So now the reporter says she was over the railing, which if he was colorblind he should have been more diligent:
"The video that CBS News saw, and I saw myself, appears to show you holding Chloe above the railing and over the railing..."

Now totally false saying he wouldn't do anything dangerous with Chloe but his own description is totally dangerous: "I wouldn't mess around with Chloe in — that kind of — or anybody with a dangerous kind of — never." Chloe didn't even asked to be picked up, yet he does it for over 30 seconds while holding her in a totally unsafe way. I wonder if he's dropped Chloe or other children before as he seems totally reckless in his handling of his own granddaughter by his own description of how he handled her.

Grandfather charged in girl's cruise ship death says he's colorblind, calls outcome of case "inconsequential"

BBM! UGH this whole thing right here is prime evidence of how reckless his actions were, even if the window was closed. Did it ever occur to him that there was a reason for the rail, the distance, so that you couldn't easily reach the glass?!?!? DUH! I mean COME ON! I'm so annoyed I could scream. The whole banging on the glass excuse...so ridiculous. This man had NO REGARD whatsoever for his granddaughter's safety, I'm sorry! I'm sure of course he regrets it and feels terrible, in the same way that other people who do stupid reckless things thinking they are immune to the laws the rest of us abide by, including the laws of physics!!!

MAN, I AM FIRED UP!

 

[MsBetsy]

I don't think his color blindness or whatever else he has going on is the cause of Chloe's death. JMOO

It's not the cause of death.
His actions were what caused her death.
But if he is colorblind it would explain why he did not realize the window was open.

It might be significant to a jury and it might affect the charge and his sentencing.
So it's not entirely irrelevant.

Regardless, his actions were still negligent so he needs to be held accountable.

Imo

 

[neesaki]

If Grandpa is really color blind, and that's what caused him to think the window was closed, why didn't that come out from the start? I'm not buying this latest excuse for SA's reckless actions. I wonder who put him up to this?

Hopefully he’ll have to have his eyes tested. Is there a test for color blindness?
Like you, I think this is one of the excuses he’s made up. SMH

 

[vallie]

thuis pictutre breaks my heart,
look at Chloe's eye level, all these enchanting curious things to see and explore, She seems to be looking at those eye level figures in the distance, like two small children. Why would she even want to be admiring the view from a high window above the port when she can be playing on the splash pad

 

[MsBetsy]

Hopefully he’ll have to have his eyes tested. Is there a test for color blindness?
Like you, I think this is one of the excuses he’s made up. SMH

Most likely he was diagnosed long ago. Color blindness is hereditary and is more common in males. There are 3 types, and complete colorblindness is the most rare.
He probably has the type where it's difficult to distinguish between shades.

If he is colorblind it should be easy to prove.

Imo

 

[SpanishInquisition]

I do wonder if Chloe's parents want SA convicted, just they can't say it. How things are being handled certainly doesn't seem to be in SA's interest. Notably Winkleman expressly doesn't work for SA and he seems to be putting out a whole bunch of stuff that doesn't necessarily help SA, especially having SA voluntarily do a TV interview. Also it appears that SA is cut off financially where he has to pay for his own defense as there's a separate fundraise for that. Chloe's mom could probably never tell her own mom that she wants her mom's husband convicted, but she consciously or subconsciously seems to be doing things that undermine SA, which it's hard to believe she as a prosecutor herself would have her own lawyer put SA on TV and say all these things.

 

[neesaki]

That's what I was thinking as well.
My daughter is colorblind but it's very subtle and we never realized until she was specifically tested for it during an eye exam.
It's the type where it's hard to distinguish between red and orange and green and blue. It's very subtle and it's more common in men.

If he is color blind it won't be difficult to prove.

This is my understanding of color blindness too. So seems he would have seen a difference in the clear versus colored, just not been able to tell if green or blue. JMO

 

[oviedo]

Most likely he was diagnosed long ago. Color blindness is hereditary and is more common in males. There are 3 types, and complete colorblindness is the most rare.
He probably has the type where it's difficult to distinguish between shades.

If he is colorblind it should be easy to prove.

Imo

IF he is color blind then one would think he might be more careful knowing this could be an issue - like lifting her up - and saying to yourself - hmmm I may not be able to see if this glass is missing - since i'm color blind - maybe I shouldn't lean the baby out of it? but he didn't. still negligent homicide. and he did refuse the breathalyzer so there's that.
JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

IF he is color blind then one would think he might be more careful knowing this could be an issue - like lifting her up - and saying to yourself - hmmm I may not be able to see if this glass is missing - since i'm color blind - maybe I shouldn't lean the baby out of it? but he didn't. still negligent homicide. and he did refuse the breathalyzer so there's that.
JMO

Yes, he was still negligent as far as his actions.
But, as I mentioned before, it may be significant to a jury, as it might explain why he didn't realize the window was open.
As far as the breathalyzer is concerned, if he was drinking it really doesn't matter. The medical attendants and LE would be able to smell it or see it in his eyes, and their testimony will be what matters.

Imo