IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #2

[SpanishInquisition]

What parts are the stool and apron?

It's the shelf and support of the window. The shelf is next to the sill itself.

 

[MsBetsy]

I think this is what they are referring to as metal railing

That metal railing is so much higher than the window ledge. In the CBS report they said he looked over the railing for a second, then bent down, picked her up, and held her "over" the railing. If that is the case then he must have lifted her over the railing and then lowered her down on the ledge several inches from the railing. If that's the case then no wonder she fell.

Imo

 

[oviedo]

That metal railing is so much higher than the window ledge. In the CBS report they said he looked over the railing for a second, then bent down, picked her up, and held her "over" the railing. If that is the case then he must have lifted her over the railing and then lowered her down on the ledge several inches from the railing. If that's the case then no wonder she fell.

Imo

Exactly — sometimes the simplest explanation is the right one - he just needs to admit his error and beg forgiveness IMO

 

[MsBetsy]

Also it's worse than being on the handrailing as now it's described that Chloe was put over the railing with her also being described as sitting on the metal railing AKA the windowsill. I think at a minimum Chloe's legs would have to have been out the window for her to be able to sit on the metal railing.

I don't think she was sitting on the railing. It seems too high. I think he lifted her over the railing and then sat her on the window ledge. At least that's how it sounds from the description of the video.

Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

Exactly — sometimes the simplest explanation is the right one - he just needs to admit his error and beg forgiveness IMO

I never noticed until now how high that railing is from the ledge. I would think he would sit her under it but maybe she would have hit her head. The railing looks like a barrier between the inside of the ship to the window. I would think it would be hard to hold onto her with the railing between them.

I wonder if when he let go with one hand he was moving one arm down below the railing at a time and that's when he lost his grasp.

Imo

 

[SpanishInquisition]

.

I don't think she was sitting on the railing. It seems too high. I think he lifted her over the railing and then sat her on the window ledge. At least that's how it sounds from the description of the video.

Imo

That's what I'm saying. I'm saying that's what is being called "metal railing."

 

[they'll get you]

That metal railing is so much higher than the window ledge. In the CBS report they said he looked over the railing for a second, then bent down, picked her up, and held her "over" the railing. If that is the case then he must have lifted her over the railing and then lowered her down on the ledge several inches from the railing. If that's the case then no wonder she fell.

Imo

Let's say he lifted her up by her arms, as some adults do, and stood her on the timber railing, when he went to adjust his grip from her arms to her waist she toppled out.
Reports say she was sitting by then but this is still possible without seeing the video. He should have known how 2 yr old children will wriggle.
When I go cruising I have a tie that goes around the back of my neck so I don't lose my glasses overboard. Everything is high and everything is such a long way down & I'm fully aware of this 24/7.
I've NEVER seen a parent not crouch down to the child's level and still hold them away from the edges teaching them the dangers of heights.

I'd never put my full trust or weight against any glass or railing as it's a bloody long way down.

 

[MsBetsy]

.


That's what I'm saying. I'm saying that's what is being called "metal railing."

Funny, it looks brass to me.
But yes, the railing and the window ledge are two different things, but I think some are confusing the two because they have been confused in reports.
Some articles say that she was seated on the railing and some say the ledge.
But the CBS guy said he lifted her over the railing, but didn't seat her there. Then other reports say he dangled her out the window, but say nothing about lifting her that high up over the railing.

Do we know how much higher the railing is than the ledge? I know it's a foot from the window but how high is it?

I guess we really need to see the video.

Imo

 

[oviedo]

Let's say he lifted her up by her arms, as some adults do, and stood her on the timber railing, when he went to adjust his grip from her arms to her waist she toppled out.
Reports say she was sitting by then but this is still possible without seeing the video. He should have known how 2 yr old children will wriggle.
When I go cruising I have a tie that goes around the back of my neck so I don't lose my glasses overboard. Everything is high and everything is such a long way down & I'm fully aware of this 24/7.
I've NEVER seen a parent not crouch down to the child's level and still hold them away from the edges teaching them the dangers of heights.

I'd never put my full trust or weight against any glass or railing as it's a bloody long way down.

Yes and I even hate standing on those round circle glass floors in the windjammer and other spots - makes me dizzy just looking all that way down ...

 

[they'll get you]

Exactly — sometimes the simplest explanation is the right one - he just needs to admit his error and beg forgiveness IMO

Because it happened so quickly maybe he doesn't really remember the exact sequence. He'll see what exactly happened when he sees the video as that won't lie.

 

[they'll get you]

Yes and I even hate standing on those round circle glass floors in the windjammer and other spots - makes me dizzy just looking all that way down ...

Yes and I just don't trust the salt corrosion although the upkeep of the RCCL is impeccable from what I see 'on the surface'.

 

[MsBetsy]

Let's say he lifted her up by her arms, as some adults do, and stood her on the timber railing, when he went to adjust his grip from her arms to her waist she toppled out.
Reports say she was sitting by then but this is still possible without seeing the video. He should have known how 2 yr old children will wriggle.
When I go cruising I have a tie that goes around the back of my neck so I don't lose my glasses overboard. Everything is high and everything is such a long way down & I'm fully aware of this 24/7.
I've NEVER seen a parent not crouch down to the child's level and still hold them away from the edges teaching them the dangers of heights.

I'd never put my full trust or weight against any glass or railing as it's a bloody long way down.

Yes, that's what I was thinking, that he lifted her over the railing and slid her down to the ledge. He would have had to let go with one hand to hold her with his arms below the railing because he would have been in an awkward position holding his arms up and bending his elbows down. When he let go to switch positions to get a better grip, she fell.

He sure didn't plan that out very well.
If he had just held her up to the railing and kept her body on the inside, in front of the railing, it would have been fine.

Imo

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Yes, that's what I was thinking, that he lifted her over the railing and slid her down to the ledge. He would have had to let go with one hand to hold her with his arms below the railing because he would have been in an awkward position holding his arms up and bending his elbows down. When he let go to switch positions to get a better grip, she fell.

He sure didn't plan that out very well.
If he had just held her up to the railing and kept her body on the inside, in front of the railing, it would have been fine.

Imo

BBM Like a normal, rational adult in charge of a 19 month old child. I keep wondering why, if SA has all of these "issues" and "conditions" and "impairments" and was KNOWN to be reckless, why was he given charge of Chloe? Just one of the parts of this case I don't quite grasp. MOO

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

dbl post

 

[they'll get you]

Yes, that's what I was thinking, that he lifted her over the railing and slid her down to the ledge. He would have had to let go with one hand to hold her with his arms below the railing because he would have been in an awkward position holding his arms up and bending his elbows down. When he let go to switch positions to get a better grip, she fell.

He sure didn't plan that out very well.
If he had just held her up to the railing and kept her body on the inside, in front of the railing, it would have been fine.

Imo

That's exactly what most right minded people do, but not this one. But it's not his fault!

 

[sl222]

Remember the picture of the man in the actual window who was demonstrating what happened? And the photos taken by the father? That window's wooden rail is even with the bottom of the window. Another photo taken that was supposed to be a similar window seems to have a wooden rail that is halfway up the window. I think the actual wooden rail in this case was at the bottom of the window, even with it. (I could be wrong)

 

[sl222]

BBM Like a normal, rational adult in charge of a 19 month old child. I keep wondering why, if SA has all of these "issues" and "conditions" and "impairments" and was KNOWN to be reckless, why was he given charge of Chloe? Just one of the parts of this case I don't quite grasp. MOO

That puts the defense in an awkward position as far as the parents are concerned, but I think that's one reason for where they're going. They will probably find numerous ways around it. A defense attorney's job is to be zealous in his representation. I'm not saying they're planning to outright lie but there seem to be a lot of ways they can say there was an impairment that was not then known. Or just stick to the insistence that in his mind he thought there was glass. They can't prove what was in his mind. It seems like he insists on this despite apparently having his hands outside of the window. I think the PR prosecutors know the case is backed up. But why is it getting this far without a plea?

Legal experts, how likely do you think it is that there will be a plea arrangement? I think it will happen soon.

 

[sl222]

In the interview he says he was holding Chloe and reaching out to feel the glass. How can that be?? If he sees that his hand goes past the window then why doesn't he know that the window has no glass?

 

[sl222]

There is a photo of him holding Chloe for her to reach out to something; that photo they had on DM and other places from the start. He's holding her in a very awkward way in front of his body.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

In the interview he says he was holding Chloe and reaching out to feel the glass. How can that be?? If he sees that his hand goes past the window then why doesn't he know that the window has no glass?

RIIIIIIIIGHT.....