IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #2

[SpanishInquisition]

Personally, I think the purpose of the parents' lawsuit against RCCL is intended to assuage their guilt for having entrusted Grandpa with Chloe's care while they were elsewhere on the ship. Their continued support of this man's careless and reckless actions is baffling. They should be livid, but they seem to care more about protecting Grandpa than seeing that justice is served in the tragic death of their child.

I do think Winkleman has been used to assuage their guilt, but that doesn't necessarily go toward helping SA. Winkleman is a civil lawyer who doesn't appear to have ever practiced any criminal law, yet he's doing things that directly impact the criminal case. When this first happened the cop and prosecutor parents had SA not make a statement and not submit to anything, but now that they apparently know what's on the video they're undoing the smart legal steps they initially took to protect SA. They've now put him in a legally precarious position doing stuff with Winkleman who doesn't represent him. It's not like Chloe's parents are the Griswolds ignorant of criminal law, so KW has got to know exactly what's she doing to SA by having him work with but not be represented by Winkleman while making video statements that can be used against him in the criminal trial. Also SA is raising his own money to pay for legal and travel as the family fundraise for legal and travel apparently excludes him.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Grandfather charged in toddler’s fatal cruise ship fall appears in court

...Anello’s defense attorney, Jose Ortiz, declined to make a statement...

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Does he have a defense lawyer yet? I haven't heard anything about that and I haven't seen an answer yet....Imo

Anello’s defense attorney, Jose Ortiz, declined to make a statement...

Grandfather charged in toddler’s fatal cruise ship fall appears in court

 

[Midwestmom2019]

I doubt that the video presented to media outlets was the actual surveillance footage onboard Freedom of the Seas or video from the pier in San Juan. Media were likely given a few video clips to include in reports on the case. I suspect that the actual CCTV video from the ship and port is closely guarded and will not be released to the public until after the trial, if it's ever released. Both the prosecution and RCCL have remained tight-lipped on what is actually shown in the video, and they are not not going to jeopardize their case by releasing too much information. I think the PR DA and RCCL are confident that the video will show exactly what SA was doing from the time he embarked the ship until the horrific incident that took Chloe's life. I get chills just thinking about it

DA released it to the defense lawyer. IMHO DA does not have to release to Winkleman bc he doesn’t represent SA in the criminal case. As for RCCL not releasing to Winkleman, unless maritime different, he can’t get it until he files a lawsuit and asks for it. Then all kinds of other law rules start to apply. Too many to discuss. But I bet Winkleman and company will be at trial. Trying to get video. Wonder if criminal judge will forbid recording the proceedings.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Personally, I think the purpose of the parents' lawsuit against RCCL is intended to assuage their guilt for having entrusted Grandpa with Chloe's care while they were elsewhere on the ship. Their continued support of this man's careless and reckless actions is baffling. They should be livid, but they seem to care more about protecting Grandpa than seeing that justice is served in the tragic death of their child.

I've never encountered anything like this attitude the parents have. Add to that the changing stories, the jaw droppingly absurd interview, the MW's outright LIES about the case, the recent "colorblindness" revelation... I feel that this case has many many sinister layers. MOO

 

[Bethan]

I doubt that the video presented to media outlets was the actual surveillance footage onboard Freedom of the Seas or video from the pier in San Juan. Media were likely given a few video clips to include in reports on the case. I suspect that the actual CCTV video from the ship and port is closely guarded and will not be released to the public until after the trial, if it's ever released. Both the prosecution and RCCL have remained tight-lipped on what is actually shown in the video, and they are not not going to jeopardize their case by releasing too much information. I think the PR DA and RCCL are confident that the video will show exactly what SA was doing from the time he embarked the ship until the horrific incident that took Chloe's life. I get chills just thinking about it

ITA BetteDavisEyes.

This case shocks & horrifies me to the core.

It also angers me...but so much that I keep deleting my own comments.

Anyone would think we were talking about an 8 yr old child who had dropped his baby sister.

It’s completely irrelevant what ‘Grandpa’ THOUGHT’ he knew regarding the window/glass.

He was patently WRONG in his assumptions & baby Chloe died as a result.

She was not safe in his care.

 

[10ofRods]

He would NOT have been able to see ‘all the way down’ unless he had his head out that window looking straight down. It’s impossible.

It doesn't surprise me that he includes an impossible scenario - which is why he won't make a good witness on his own behalf (what he's doing talking to media at this juncture, I have no idea).

Of course I suppose it's possible he was leaning out the window when he dropped her. If true, then that supports the charge of negligence IMO.

 

[MsBetsy]

Anello’s defense attorney, Jose Ortiz, declined to make a statement...

Grandfather charged in toddler’s fatal cruise ship fall appears in court

Thank you! I'm sure it's wise of him not to make a statement.
I wonder if he has advised the grandfather not to speak to the media since it doesn't seem to be helping his case.
He should also tell the family to get the other lawyer to stop talking. I wonder if there is a lack of communication or disagreement between the family as to how to go about handling the case.
Isn't Chloe's mother a lawyer or a judge or something? Maybe the lawsuit was her idea.

Imo

 

[vallie]

“What I saw with the video, it’s pretty consistent with what my client has told me,” said José Pérez Ortiz, who represents Salvatore Anello in the criminal case.
https://nypost.com/2019/11/22/video...grandfather-thought-window-was-closed-lawyer/

He also disclosed that the mom asked the PR authorities to drop charges. As I'm sure he wanted the public to know that the parents harbor no blame ( towards gp, at least )but don't they realize this statement implies they are above the law and it's up to them even though they have made horribly accusatory statements and obvious lies in the media, and have declined to view the video or describe the video in full. (believe what you hear but don't believe your eyes is what they want us to go by.

another backfire.
and if he is found guilty of negligent homicide , can't the mom's statement "at no time has sam ever ever put our children in danger".. backfire because he did.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Thank you! I'm sure it's wise of him not to make a statement.
I wonder if he has advised the grandfather not to speak to the media since it doesn't seem to be helping his case.
He should also tell the family to get the other lawyer to stop talking. I wonder if there is a lack of communication or disagreement between the family as to how to go about handling the case.
Isn't Chloe's mother a lawyer or a judge or something? Maybe the lawsuit was her idea.

Imo

Memorial held in honor of local toddler who tragically died in cruise ship accident
"The girl's mother used to work in the prosecutor's office."

 

[Montrealaise]

Thank you! I'm sure it's wise of him not to make a statement.
I wonder if he has advised the grandfather not to speak to the media since it doesn't seem to be helping his case.
He should also tell the family to get the other lawyer to stop talking. I wonder if there is a lack of communication or disagreement between the family as to how to go about handling the case.
Isn't Chloe's mother a lawyer or a judge or something? Maybe the lawsuit was her idea.

Imo

I am shocked that SA, now a defendant in a criminal case, keeps giving interviews to the media. Whose idea was it, and for what purpose?
As for his criminal defense attorney, I see two possibilities: either SA decided to do the media interviews without telling his lawyer, or his lawyer told him not to do them but SA, thinking he knows better, decided to disregard his lawyer's advice. I cannot imagine any lawyer advising his client to do interviews in his situation.

 

[vallie]

Personally, I think the purpose of the parents' lawsuit against RCCL is intended to assuage their guilt for having entrusted Grandpa with Chloe's care while they were elsewhere on the ship. Their continued support of this man's careless and reckless actions is baffling. They should be livid, but they seem to care more about protecting Grandpa than seeing that justice is served in the tragic death of their child.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Why are some people never going to just sympathize unless the parents go public blaming SA? They are still victims, in mourning, no matter what they say publically or what lawsuit they might file. They don't owe anyone their deepest thoughts and feelings. I would think they are ALL still in shock. MOO

 

[vallie]

Why are some people never going to just sympathize unless the parents go public blaming SA? They are still victims, in mourning, no matter what they say publically or what lawsuit they might file. They don't owe anyone their deepest thoughts and feelings. I would think they are ALL still in shock. MOO

I can't imagine but as lawyers ( usually media hounds) , they should know better than keep doing it Do you expect us to not look further into their claims and just take their word for it because they suffered the unimaginable? We probably could but #1. family is suing the cruise line blaming them publicly for the death of their child
#2 The grandfather , not the cruiseline, has been charged with negligent homicide.

The lies about the play area, blaming the victim, 25+secs of video after he lifts her, glass banging stories that should have CPS visit, etc. They don't deserve to suffer more but they are bringing on the negativity themselves ( with Winkermans help).

 

[sl222]

That doesn't sound reasonable at all to me. From the pictures I've seen, she could have easily gotten to the bottom row of windows. Just WHY WHY WHY was touching the *blankety blank* windows so very important??? I will just never understand. My DH thinks SA was trying to say that he thought there was for some reason glass outside the glass. HUH?

I have thought some version of this too - that SA thought this area was a child-safe, hermetically sealed (sarc), no way to fall out, some crazy way of thinking. But he wasn't thinking. However 30 seconds is a really long time to stand in front of a window so you have to know it is open.

That's why I also would like to know his history of ever cruising on this ship. But of course probably not, and the lawyers will still put that forth as part of their defense if that's the case.

The attempt to change public opinion only works with the people who don't know the facts such as refusing the breathalyzer. And the people who say, "He has suffered enough." (What if someone dropped their child?)

Changing public opinion won't do him any good as far as the prosecutors who have already taken everything into consideration before going forward.

One good thing I learned from this past week's media interviews/reports is that immediately after this happened, he was "led away" by cruise staff, sounds like more than one member of the staff. I'm glad to hear that because after all he said he dropped the child. We don't know what the purpose was but at least he was immediately speaking to these staff members and they will be able to give accounts of what was happening or said in the immediate aftermath.

 

[sl222]

Had Chloe's parents been with her at the time, I have to wonder if they would have said "No" to picking her up and letting her tap on the window.

I think her parents would have done what we would - if they wanted her to see the view, they would have held her firmly, back at a safe distance, behind the railing.

Not only that but another one of my instincts would be not to get a child's fingerprints or any smudges on the windows of any public place just out of courtesy.

 

[sl222]

All his pictures he looks old. He's only about 10 years older than Chloe's cop father, yet SA looks a generation older.

To me, in the photos taken at the airport, he doesn't really look old; what makes him look old is his extra weight, lack of fitness, gray hair, and way of dressing. He probably did not have any alcohol on the cruise once the incident happened. That also made him look younger in those photos. --- more amateur speculation here. Just my guess.

 

[MsBetsy]

Why are some people never going to just sympathize unless the parents go public blaming SA? They are still victims, in mourning, no matter what they say publically or what lawsuit they might file. They don't owe anyone their deepest thoughts and feelings. I would think they are ALL still in shock. MOO

Yes, I'm sure that is true.There is nothing worse than losing a child, and that their own father or stepfather is being accused of being responsible in some way for the child's death must make it even harder for them. They are grieving but at the same time they are trying to protect their family member from being convicted of a crime.
I can't even imagine the family publicly accusing him of being responsible.
How would that help anything? Publicly blaming the grandfather is not going to ease their pain.

Imo

 

[sl222]

But I still think they are waiting and hoping for an outcome that would show negligence on the part of the Ship. If they were so sure that the ship is responsible, then why have they not filed yet? What else could they be waiting for?

This made me realize that Winkleman is already aggressively negotiating with RCCL for a settlement before the trial happens. The threat of a lawsuit, the supportive comments, the interview, all trying to put pressure on RCCL to just settle.

 

[justice4allnow]

Yes, I'm sure that is true.There is nothing worse than losing a child, and that their own father or stepfather is being accused of being responsible in some way for the child's death must make it even harder for them. They are grieving but at the same time they are trying to protect their family member from being convicted of a crime.
I can't even imagine the family publicly accusing him of being responsible.
How would that help anything? Publicly blaming the grandfather is not going to ease their pain.

Imo

In time their feelings will change, if they have not already. It is so shocking to lose a family member to death. My father killed my mother when I was a teen, in what he claimed was an accident. My other siblings and I at first viewed the police as our enemy-they were trying to take away our father and we had just lost our mother. I think that it is some kind of self-protective instinct to view a family member as incapable of wrong, otherwise it's too much to comprehend. As the months passed and the shock wore off, we began to look differently at what he had done and even at who he was, as a person. Once this family has gone through a full year of being without their beloved Chloe, they will no doubt feel very differently about him.