IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #2

[sl222]

It’s this picture I find strange.
There is Chloe standing behind GF alone, almost ignored, while GF is getting all the attention, giving a lot of attention to a dog.
I saw Chloe with a wrinkled brow, she’s not happy, maybe frightened with her arms out.

IMO I don't think this photo is strange. I think this was taken when there were other family members around the two of them, including the person who took the photo. You can see another child in the back who is wearing a similar outfit as Chloe so maybe there was a gathering of many families. JMO.

 

[MsBetsy]

IMO I don't think this photo is strange. I think this was taken when there were other family members around the two of them, including the person who took the photo. You can see another child in the back who is wearing a similar outfit as Chloe so maybe there was a gathering of many families. JMO.

Yes, if anyone is frightened it's the child in the background who appears be clinging to an adult.
Chloe is not alone, she is right beside the grandfather holding her arm out towards the dog.

Imo

 

[Aydrianna523]

Surely you jest!!!! i guess if people on a cruise ship were that easily distracted
while holding children, there would be accidents all over the place, but there arent---
a parent or anyone watching a child has a duty to pay great attention to that child in order to provide a safe environment--they dont have the luxury of being easily distracted

I'm considered one of the most cautious of anyone I know. But gotta say I've been distracted before. You got kids? No insult intended at all. Just curious.

 

[katydid23]

I'm considered one of the most cautious of any one I know. You got kids? No insult intended at all. Just curious.

As a cautious parent, would you have stood your 18month old child on that guard rail? Would you have sat your child on that rail, alongside an open 11th story window? And then leaned out that window yourself, to look below?

 

[sl222]

I noticed he looked slimmer in the airport photo too. I wonder if he lost weight because he was too upset to eat.

I definitely think so. There is a profound difference, particularly noticeable in his face. His forehead lines are completely gone, he looks 15 years younger than at other times. As bad as this case is, I am truly worred about his ability to survive much longer, whether he serves any time or not. It bothers me a great deal. I believe he was negligent here but I know it was not intentional. It really all comes down to the videos as far as what really happened. But no winners here. And the cost of carelessness really came home to roost here. It's shattering.

 

[katydid23]

I definitely think so. There is a profound difference, particularly noticeable in his face. His forehead lines are completely gone, he looks 15 years younger than at other times. As bad as this case is, I am truly worred about his ability to survive much longer, whether he serves any time or not. It bothers me a great deal. I believe he was negligent here but I know it was not intentional. It really all comes down to the videos as far as what really happened. But no winners here. And the cost of carelessness really came home to roost here. It's shattering.

I think he maybe just stopped drinking?

 

[mickey2942]

As a cautious parent, would you have stood your 18month old child on that guard rail? Would you have sat your child on that rail, alongside an open 11th story window? And then leaned out that window yourself, to look below?

I wouldn't even get my cell phone that close to a rail. Let alone a child.

 

[sl222]

I think SA was so extremely negligent sitting a small child on a barrier clearly meant to keep people a reasonable distance from windows that open and not at all for sitting and standing, and he absolutely should have known the window was open like any reasonable person would have (for all the reasons: the noise, the breeze, the lack of tint and total clarity), I think being charged is appropriate. I also think he should be found guilty. I also believe any prison time should be minimal at best, maybe no prison time. I believe the guy is tormented. But I also think he should be held up as being legally responsible for her death, and not the cruise line. This “fix the boat” “I’m not at fault” narrative makes me very angry.

SA should make a plea deal that involves him apologizing because his actions cost a little baby her life, and do what he can to make amends.

Well said. I agree with you. This seems like the best outcome.

 

[Aydrianna523]

Dbm

 

[Aydrianna523]

As a cautious parent, would you have stood your 18month old child on that guard rail? Would you have sat your child on that rail, alongside an open 11th story window? And then leaned out that window yourself, to look below?

That's a tough one. I'm afraid of heighths. He said he thought there was glass in it. So since that's what he thought, I'm buying it.
Me? I don't even have hard end tables like most people...just soft bench type things, bins around beds..that kind of thing. I look amazed at people who don't hold their kids hands going down steps. But I see it on youtube family blogs all the time.
So yeah, I'm pretty cautious. But, nonetheless, I give others the benefit of the doubt. Not everybody is a 'Family Safety Director' like me.
But we here have 20/20 hindsight. That's way easier.

 

[Stinalyn]

Personally, what I see is a child on a mission to get over there and touch the dog. MOO

Yes, I think you're right; what bothered me in this pic though was that Grandpa didn't seem to be paying any attention at all to Chloe, his back is turned to her and she's just kind of standing behind him. Idk, maybe her Mom or Dad were there, out of view, and they were watching her. If not, and Grandpa was in charge of her, it just speaks volumes to me about the casual way he seems to always have interacted with her. If I had a toddler with me in public anywhere, esp. where there are crowds of people, or dogs, and most especially on cruise ship, I would have a watchful eye and/or a tight grip on the child at all times. I realize I'm only seeing part of the situation here, but there just seemed to be a lot of photos showing SA not really being an attentive caregiver. MOO

 

[Aydrianna523]

Yes, I think you're right; what bothered me in this pic though was that Grandpa didn't seem to be paying any attention at all to Chloe, his back is turned to her and she's just kind of standing behind him. Idk, maybe her Mom or Dad were there, out of view, and they were watching her. If not, and Grandpa was in charge of her, it just speaks volumes to me about the casual way he seems to always have interacted with her. If I had a toddler with me in public anywhere, esp. where there are crowds of people, or dogs, and most especially on cruise ship, I would have a watchful eye and/or a tight grip on the child at all times. I realize I'm only seeing part of the situation here, but there just seemed to be a lot of photos showing SA not really being an attentive caregiver. MOO

I try to stare constantly at the kids I babysit, but, boy, is that hard!
My own kids I fretted and worried about a lot, but there were still some accidents. Both times when I was trying to cook.
Still on grandpa's side.

 

[katydid23]

That's a tough one. I'm afraid of heighths. He said he thought there was glass in it. So since that's what he thought, I'm buying it.
Me? I don't even have hard end tables like most people...just soft bench type things, bins around beds..that kind of thing. I look amazed at people who don't hold their kids hands going down steps. But I see it on youtube family blogs all the time.
So yeah, I'm pretty cautious. But, nonetheless, I give others the benefit of the doubt. Not everybody is a 'Family Safety Director' like me.
But we here have 20/20 hindsight. That's way easier.

You accept his word that he thought there was glass there. Have you seen the picture of the open vs closed windows ?




Can you see the difference between open vs closed? I think anyone could.

And the video showed that he looked 'out of the window' BEFORE he picked up the child to put her on the rail. How could he look out of the window opening and not know there was no glass there?

Grandfather charged in death of toddler who fell from a Royal Caribbean ship

 

[katydid23]

I try to stare constantly at the kids I babysit, but, boy, is that hard!
My own kids I fretted and worried about a lot, but there were still some accidents. Both times when I was trying to cook.
Still on grandpa's side.

Is it an 'accident' when you do something that puts your child in danger?

Sure, falling out of the window was an 'accident.' But she should never have been propped up alongside that open window in the 1st place. That is not an accident, that is negligence. Criminal negligence, imo.

 

[oviedo]

I try to stare constantly at the kids I babysit, but, boy, is that hard!
My own kids I fretted and worried about a lot, but there were still some accidents. Both times when I was trying to cook.
Still on grandpa's side.

Royal Caribbean's Freedom of the Seas ship.
Mum’s ‘screams of pain’ as her toddler falls to her death from Royal Caribbean cruise ship while grandad sat her on window ledge

13
The girl fell from Royal Caribbean's Freedom of the Seas ship and plunged 150 feet on to the concrete dock
——-
He sat her on the ledge and dropped her and you are on his side? What about Chloe? This isn’t a moment of distraction this is reckless negligent Homicide and he has been rightly charged IMO

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

Royal Caribbean's Freedom of the Seas ship.
Mum’s ‘screams of pain’ as her toddler falls to her death from Royal Caribbean cruise ship while grandad sat her on window ledge

13
The girl fell from Royal Caribbean's Freedom of the Seas ship and plunged 150 feet on to the concrete dock
——-
He sat her on the ledge and dropped her and you are on his side? What about Chloe? This isn’t a moment of distraction this is reckless negligent Homicide and he has been rightly charged IMO

This was a child who had no say in the matter, totally at the mercy of SA's poor judgment. When a child suffers or even dies due to the negligence or incompetence of a caregiver, there needs to be legal consequences. This was not an accident, this was the result of a deliberate, avoidable action that she was subjected to. MOO.
ETA: I know, I am preaching to the choir. This whole situation makes me very angry.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Yes, I think you're right; what bothered me in this pic though was that Grandpa didn't seem to be paying any attention at all to Chloe, his back is turned to her and she's just kind of standing behind him. Idk, maybe her Mom or Dad were there, out of view, and they were watching her. If not, and Grandpa was in charge of her, it just speaks volumes to me about the casual way he seems to always have interacted with her. If I had a toddler with me in public anywhere, esp. where there are crowds of people, or dogs, and most especially on cruise ship, I would have a watchful eye and/or a tight grip on the child at all times. I realize I'm only seeing part of the situation here, but there just seemed to be a lot of photos showing SA not really being an attentive caregiver. MOO

BBM, pretty much, yeah...

 

[Aydrianna523]

Royal Caribbean's Freedom of the Seas ship.
Mum’s ‘screams of pain’ as her toddler falls to her death from Royal Caribbean cruise ship while grandad sat her on window ledge

13
The girl fell from Royal Caribbean's Freedom of the Seas ship and plunged 150 feet on to the concrete dock
——-
He sat her on the ledge and dropped her and you are on his side? What about Chloe? This isn’t a moment of distraction this is reckless negligent Homicide and he has been rightly charged IMO

He said he thought a window was in it.
I might have to rethink this.

Royal Caribbean's Freedom of the Seas ship.
Mum’s ‘screams of pain’ as her toddler falls to her death from Royal Caribbean cruise ship while grandad sat her on window ledge

13
The girl fell from Royal Caribbean's Freedom of the Seas ship and plunged 150 feet on to the concrete dock
——-
He sat her on the ledge and dropped her and you are on his side? What about Chloe? This isn’t a moment of distraction this is reckless negligent Homicide and he has been rightly charged IMO

Is there actually a video of it? Did I miss it?

 

[SpanishInquisition]

He said he thought there was glass in it. So since that's what he thought, I'm buying it.

That's the thing for me where even if I accept 100% what he says, he still seems negligent in a way that resulted in a death. He in the video interview admits to holding her with only 1 arm with a closed fist while leaning forward, which whether there was a window there or not could result in a severe injury or death due to a fall from the height of the railing onto the floor.

 

[Aydrianna523]

You accept his word that he thought there was glass there. Have you seen the picture of the open vs closed windows ?




Can you see the difference between open vs closed? I think anyone could.

And the video showed that he looked 'out of the window' BEFORE he picked up the child to put her on the rail. How could he look out of the window opening and not know there was no glass there?

Grandfather charged in death of toddler who fell from a Royal Caribbean ship

I see it.
But if I had an apt, let's say 11 floors up, I definitely wouldn't be leaving windows open. You can be sure of that! Is every floor like that? With some open and some closed windows?