IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #3

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LietKynes said:
bbm

So it's possible that these past (successful) cases are well known ?
Click to expand...

Sure -- they're not hard to find and most settled without a trial. I'm also surprised how many falling accidents occur while ships are docked at port. Maybe there's a false sense of security when docked.

Boy, 16, falls to his death while trying to climb into room from balcony of Royal Caribbean ship

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...girl-dies-after-fall-on-carnival-cruise-ship/

Child airlifted from Carnival cruise after falling from balcony

Cruise ship returns to Port Canaveral after child falls from...
 
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  • Her family are now suing Royal Caribbean for negligence
  • The suit, due to be filed Wednesday, accuses the cruise company of breaching industry safety standards by having large glass windows on their ships
That's it! No more large glass windows on any ship.
 
Parents of Chloe Wiegand sue Royal Caribbean over her death | Daily Mail Online
  • The suit, due to be filed Wednesday, accuses the cruise company of breaching industry safety standards by having large glass windows on their ships
"....Harrowing crime scene photos taken moments after Indiana toddler Chloe Wiegand fell to her death from the 11th deck of a cruise ship can be revealed for the first time tonight as part of a bombshell negligence lawsuit that could net her parents tens of millions...." emph. mine
Hardly a "crime scene", DM.
This was an accident, according to S.A.
Unless it wasn't.

Looks like the parents are forging ahead tomorrow.
Maybe RCCL should just award them 80 million for their efforts in not backing down from the hoped-for money ?

From the first photo at the link; it's made to look like the window was open at toddler level. (Of course, consider the source ;) )




 
@Seattle1 :) Interesting situations below in your link, and yes, some happened in port. Hmmm.

But articles linked in post were written soon after events/injuries. I did not see anything about suits or settlements there but could have missed it (paywalls on some links). Maybe happened later.

As to relevance of those past situations being helpful to Chloe's parents' recovery from cruisline?
IIUC, their theory of negligence is cruiseline's failure to post warnings about windows potentially being open. From links below, imo not likely that any of those passengers would have claimed that cruiseline's failure to post warnings about windows caused or contributed to the injuries those passengers sustained. No windows involved that I could see.
1) 16 y/o boy tried to get into stateroom by climbing over stateroom balcony. Warning signs about window wd/not have helped, no window involved.
2) 8 y/o girl fell from 2nd story balcony in ship's interior atrium to lower deck. No window.
3) 3 y/o girl fell from her stateroom balcony to outdoor deck area one level below. No window.
4) 14 month old crawled through 11th floor railing, fell to a balcony one floor below. No window.

Based on situations linked below, Chloe's parents/Winkleman have no basis for arguing --
-- passengers have gone out windows (been defenestrated) before, in circumstances where passenger was not aware of possibility of window being open, so cruiseline was aware of that danger and was negligent for failure to place warning signs about windows possibly being open.

Of course, passengers may have gone thru an operable window in wall of glass/windows similar to this ship, but stories linked below do not describe injuries or deaths happening that way.
jmo
Seattle1 said:
Sure -- they're not hard to find and most settled without a trial. I'm also surprised how many falling accidents occur while ships are docked at port. Maybe there's a false sense of security when docked.
Click to expand...
Seattle1 said:
Boy, 16, falls to his death while trying to climb into room from balcony of Royal Caribbean ship
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...girl-dies-after-fall-on-carnival-cruise-ship/
Child airlifted from Carnival cruise after falling from balcony
Cruise ship returns to Port Canaveral after child falls from...
Click to expand...
 
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SoCalDavidS said:
  • Her family are now suing Royal Caribbean for negligence
  • The suit, due to be filed Wednesday, accuses the cruise company of breaching industry safety standards by having large glass windows on their ships
That's it! No more large glass windows on any ship.
Click to expand...
bbm

Unbelievable.

This is my .02. : Every ship should be completely covered in bubble wrap so you don't even know you're at sea.
Plus rubber floors so you don't fall and trip and accidentally hurt your foot...
Any other ideas for safety ?
Since -- according to the Wiegands , Winkleman and SA's defense lawyer, and whomever else -- it's always someone else's fault.
 
Yet again, a time has come where it's up to a jury of several people to decide which direction we go as a society. Do they award damages of any significance to the family, or do they make the award insignificant or non-existent? Or even more unlikely, make the family cover Royal Caribbean's court costs for filing a frivolous lawsuit. Now that would be an extremely satisfying outcome, but I have less and less faith in an American jury of my "peers" necessarily doing the sensible thing.

I'm just looking forward to when they're asked to name an amount, and Winkleman responds "How can you put a price on such a precious child, who was destined to someday grow up to be a Dr. and cure cancer?"
 
SoCalDavidS said:
....That's it! No more large glass windows on any ship.
Click to expand...
[SIZE=4]]@SoCalDavidS[/SIZE] :) sbm Thx for update.
Is this is new standard size window for cruise ships? Place in horizontal lines at heights for toddlers, children, wheelchair users, tweens; short, medium & tall adults.
Space every 2 - 3 feet? Would look like a wall of super-sized pegboard? :eek:/sarc.
Super safe, no passengers could fall thru window.
418t4SEZmBL._SL500_AC_SS350_.jpg

pic from amazon.com, Door Viewer Peephole
https://www.amazon.com/Viewer-Peeph...?keywords=door+peephole&qid=1576038250&sr=8-4
 
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SoCalDavidS said:
If their suit succeeds the grieving couple from South Bend, Indiana could claim ‘unlimited’ damages for pain and mental suffering because Chloe died on American territory rather than while the boat was at sea.

Contemptible &*#$&%!!
Click to expand...
bbm
emphasis mine

This is interesting.
I missed this before.

So the parents and SA made sure that they were on American territory.
Puerto Rico is also an American Protectorate.
The requested lawsuit wouldn't net them very much if it happened at sea and in international waters.
Sorry but my hinky meter is not staying still.
 
SoCalDavidS said:
  • Her family are now suing Royal Caribbean for negligence
  • The suit, due to be filed Wednesday, accuses the cruise company of breaching industry safety standards by having large glass windows on their ships
That's it! No more large glass windows on any ship.
Click to expand...

Hmmm ... I just looked up the Norwegian ship window standards (Royal Caribbean are a Norwegian enterprise).

I am not personally seeing how the safety standard has been breached.

I am not finding anything about the size of the windows, just that they must be tinted, they must be made of a certain strength glass, and they must be 1500mm above the waterline (when the ship is at loaded capacity).
The windows in question are way the heck above the waterline. And they certainly are not huge plate glass windows ... they are many smaller windows within steel frames.

Surely a ship can't pass final inspection if it doesn't fit with the country's regulations.

I guess the 'experts' will hammer out the details in court. Unless they are hoping for a settlement for their frivolous lawsuit prior to any court date.

https://www.sdir.no/contentassets/85a5c75782f7428899c133179de97c7b/rsr-06-2014-on-the-contruction-of-ships.pdf?t=1576041344803
 
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Aydrianna523 said:
Gotcha. But I know younger people than me who have health problems.
I worked in retail and some of the younger people had more trouble than me walking for hours a day.
I know. I'm looking to cut him a break...
Maybe I shouldn't. I'll stay tuned.
Click to expand...


I think he was either showing off or buzzed possibly BOTH.

JMO
 
SoCalDavidS said:
  • Her family are now suing Royal Caribbean for negligence
  • The suit, due to be filed Wednesday, accuses the cruise company of breaching industry safety standards by having large glass windows on their ships

  • That's it! No more large glass windows on any ship.
Click to expand...
  • ^^ibm
Not true there will be no more glass windows on any ship! :)

The parents claim against RCCL is the ship having a select number of large windows that opened the entire way, and that these select windows were not differentiated from the windows permanently closed. In other words, no adequate warning of the defect.

Claimants also allege it's industry standard for sliders or operable windows to at least have a label or mark on them which differentiates them for other windows.

What I find more interesting is their allegation that RCCL's newer ships, as well as their competitor's ships, all have stoppers on the operable windows (preventing opening more than about 4 inches) or they are labeled with a warning.

If this allegation proves true, I think it's going to be the inconsistent window treatment on the ship that will cause RCCL to settle with the family. If the ship the child fell from was in the minority regarding its windows, I really don't think RCCL will be successful arguing that the window tint and railing were adequate warnings.

Also, there is truth to industry-standard claim just as I cited in an earlier post how operable office windows are required marked with a visible red dot.

As for the independent, criminal case against SA, I still think there's a strong case that his actions were reckless and that he put the child in danger that led to her death.

I also think SA's own words may come back to haunt him. SA stated they wanted to bang on the glass as in the hockey arena but the ship clearly is not an arena. In a hockey arena, there is no railing or barrier to prevent spectators including the toddler from banging on the glass. In fact, a child can be so close to the arena glass she can kiss it is she wants to.

I think SA carelessly breached the barrier when he placed the child on the railing and then had to lean forward himself to attempt to touch the glass. I think he may have even pushed the child out of the window with his won weight behind her. If the window was closed, he could have lost his balance and they both could have crashed the glass and been injured.

MOO
 
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Would "Four Simple Words" Have Prevented This Death?

Daily Mail Dec 10 article quotes Winkleman as saying:
"Four simple words - 'caution these windows open' - and we wouldn't be talking about his [sic]..."

If cruiseline had posted easily seen warning signs "Caution: These Windows Open" would G'pa-SA have read and heeded those warnings?
Would he have been mindful of them, more so than warnings printed on visor and dashboard reminder light, both visible every time he sat in driver's seat & started the engine?
You know, the warning about lap belts & shoulder harnesses?

Yet later Winkleman seems to say those four simple words (the warning signs) wd/ not be enough, because some other cruise ships have windows that do not open more than ~4 in, have labels on operable windows, etc. so this ship should have had those same features..
Which is it? jmo
 
al66pine said:
@Seattle1 :) Interesting situations below in your link, and yes, some happened in port. Hmmm.

But articles linked in post were written soon after events/injuries. I did not see anything about suits or settlements there but could have missed it (paywalls on some links). Maybe happened later.

As to relevance of those past situations being helpful to Chloe's parents' recovery from cruisline?
IIUC, their theory of negligence is cruiseline's failure to post warnings about windows potentially being open. From links below, imo not likely that any of those passengers would have claimed that cruiseline's failure to post warnings about windows caused or contributed to the injuries those passengers sustained. No windows involved that I could see.
1) 16 y/o boy tried to get into stateroom by climbing over stateroom balcony. Warning signs about window wd/not have helped, no window involved.
2) 8 y/o girl fell from 2nd story balcony in ship's interior atrium to lower deck. No window.
3) 3 y/o girl fell from her stateroom balcony to outdoor deck area one level below. No window.
4) 14 month old crawled through 11th floor railing, fell to a balcony one floor below. No window.

Based on situations linked below, Chloe's parents/Winkleman have no basis for arguing --
-- passengers have gone out windows (been defenestrated) before, in circumstances where passenger was not aware of possibility of window being open, so cruiseline was aware of that danger and was negligent for failure to place warning signs about windows possibly being open.

Of course, passengers may have gone thru an operable window in wall of glass/windows similar to this ship, but stories linked below do not describe injuries or deaths happening that way.
jmo
Click to expand...

I think you misunderstood the o/p topic as well as claims of negligence in civil court. The tort or theory of negligence is surely not limited to windows! Four elements of negligence apply whether it be a railing or a window.
 
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