IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #5

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In this video DB says SA had not purchased alcohol once on board.His defense attorney in PR said he had not swiped his cruise card for purchases at all, not even for a bottled water.
DB does say “ from the moment he looked out that window”

MOO

BBM. Although personally I don't believe alcohol was the cause of this negligence, I will say that just because SA did not PERSONALLY buy any alcohol, in no way shape or form does that mean he didn't drink any. Any one else in his family could have purchased rounds for the group. Also, if they had just boarded and there was a welcome party- there could have been complimentary alcohol and it's not that hard to get a couple free ones in. (As I did on my first cruise as an 18-year old, granted it's been awhile).
 
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They should have wanted a complete investigation before they left the island, just as parents. JMOO I would not have budged until I found out exactly what happened to my child!

Instead, they told SA not to submit to breathalyzer (or blood draw), told him not to make an official statement, and high-tailed it out of San Juan ASAP :rolleyes:
 
BBM. Although personally I don't believe alcohol was the cause of this negligence, I will say that just because SA did not PERSONALLY by any alcohol, in no way shape or form does that mean he didn't drink any. Any one else in his family could have purchased rounds for the group. Also, if they had just boarded and there was a welcome party- there could have been complimentary alcohol and it's not that hard to get a couple free ones in. (As I did on my first cruise as an 18-year old, granted it's been awhile).

Most cruise lines allow adult passengers to carry one bottle of wine or champagne onboard, so the family group that included 6 adults might have had several bottles with them. Bottles of alcohol can also be pre-purchased prior to the cruise and are delivered directly to your stateroom on embarkation day. SA could have also had a couple of drinks during their flight earlier that day (or in the hotel if they arrived the previous day). That Grandpa refused to take a breathalyzer has always bothered me. Those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing.
 
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In this video DB says SA had not purchased alcohol once on board.His defense attorney in PR said he had not swiped his cruise card for purchases at all, not even for a bottled water.
DB does say “ from the moment he looked out that window”

MOO
bbm
Thanks for this !

So, gramps didn't have anything to drink AFTER (or, from the moment of...) the incident.
Well of course he didn't .
They were in 'get out of here quickly' mode !
Who's going to go for a chilled Lime Margarita after dangling and/or dropping your own grandchild.

Looks like Winkleman's not the only one who is putting their own "spin" on the events.
Have to give some kudos to these lawyers for working so frantically to place S.A. in a good light; and portray him as a loving and responsible man.

If that was MY child tossed through that window to her death... I'd have been mightily tempted to throw gramps out the window !
Not that I would ever do this. Just saying.
 
They should have wanted a complete investigation before they left the island, just as parents. JMOO I would not have budged until I found out exactly what happened to my child!
Ita.
I'm quite certain you wouldn't be all loving and defensive of someone who killed your child.
And wouldn't say "Oh, we love Sam. He would never do anything intentional to hurt our child; blah, blah..."
Weird.
 
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When did SA say, "I dropped my child!", and who heard him say this? Was it other passengers or ship security personnel who came to the scene?
Little by little, slowly but surely, as more and more pieces of this 3 dimensional puzzle come together, we are getting ever closer to the TRUTH! And it is nothing like SA and company has been trying to spin from the beginning!
 
ITA. I do not get it and never will. No half way reasonable, half way intelligent, human being with a conscience would ever, ever do what he did... raising that baby up and out a window that high up.

My gosh, even animals watch over their babies better than that. I do agree with @Lilibet , that if nothing else, this crime is a depraved heart murder. This man is depraved, aka “wicked; morally corrupt”..... in his show of utter disrespect and disregard for baby Chloe’s life.

Was it intentional? No proof, but he endangered her life beyond comprehension , so extremely that he dropped her out of a window to her death. This, after he was shown with his entire head out of the window looking down, down at that bottom of the 150 ft. drop to the concrete below. Why? What was he looking at / for?

It’s such a heinous crime, that as responsible adults and citizens, we have to question, is there a motive? I surely hope that PR prosecutors are investigating every single blip and bling in the life of SA. Including any and all of his connections, especially his online activity and computer? Perhaps no one really knows this man. Not impossible.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depraved-heart_murder
Depraved-heart murder - Wikipedia
In United States law, depraved-heart murder, also known as depraved-indifference murder, is a type of murder where an …individual acts with a "depraved indifference" to human life and where such act results in a death, despite that individual not explicitly intending to kill.
Off topic but analogous the Vegas shooter. What was he thinking? Why? No one knows. Sometimes no one really knows a person.
 
IIRC, Chloe's parents were offered an opportunity to view video by RCCL but declined. RC knew from the get-go what the surveillance video revealed.
I think it was LE. The offer was made at the justice department but they declined and wouldn’t even go for interviews.

I am not quite sure that I believe that the family didn't see the video. They were asking for it - via Winkleman and his company - before they even left PR.
So I wonder why they say they didn't view it (did they say they haven't seen it, or just that they declined the offers by Royal Caribbean and by the police?)

Perhaps they didn't take up the Royal Caribbean/police offers to view it, but I think they maybe gained legal access to a copy of it and viewed it elsewhere.

10 July 2019
Winkleman said one of his associates was in contact with the company.
He wants it to release surveillance footage of the incident to the family.
Police investigating death of Indiana tot who fell from cruise ship have not ruled out murder | Daily Mail Online

July 12, 2019
Winkleman also said the family hopes to obtain surveillance video from the cruise ship where Chloe fell.
Family of Toddler Who Plunged to Death on Cruise Ship Returns Home for Funeral
 
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Wman claimed it’s the one he was given. Why would he be given only a partial, cut and edited video. Then CBS reported later that the timing was off in what they originally viewed, and Wman’s explanation was “software” issues , something like that. Now everyone knows that’s wrong, and that what is seen in the video is not what he claimed.
He got busted. IMO

He also said the video they gave the news station was in the "same format" they recieved from the prosecution.

So? Changing formats always results in a minute loss of data and can effect quality, it does not edit or change speed. Again, he is using lawyer speak to mislead people.

Notice what he never says:

"That is a copy of the exact video we received and was not edited or changed in anyway."

Why not just say that
? ;)
 
He also said the video they gave the news station was in the "same format" they recieved from the prosecution.

So? Changing formats always results in a minute loss of data and can effect quality, it does not edit or change speed. Again, he is using lawyer speak to mislead people.

Notice what he never says:

"That is a copy of the exact video we received and was not edited or changed in anyway."

Why not just say that
? ;)

I agree. As my dear dad used to say, it is not what people do say, it is what they don't say.
(He would say this about job references he obtained for prospective employees, and I think it applies in many other situations as well.)
 
Another thing I found telling from the interview with Winkleman was where he says this :

"She's sitting on the wooden banister, why did he then lean forward with her?" Begnaud asked Winkleman.

"I think it's pretty obvious why they leaned forward, and that would be so that you could get a better view," Winkleman said."

What happened to," they leaned forward so she could bang on the glass?" o_O
 
I agree. As my dear dad used to say, it is not what people do say, it is what they don't say.
(He would say this about job references he obtained for prospective employees, and I think it applies in many other situations as well.)
Dear dad was right Aussie!

Just like when you're house hunting and
the realtor will gush about how "cozy", (realtor speak for, "Don't plan on getting human sized furniture in here!") charming, lots of natural light ect.
They don't mention lack of storage, grotesque flooring, structural problems or that a train roars by at 3am every morning ! :eek:
 
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7:01am Dec 30, 2019

The Norwegian Jewel ship captain made a "man overboard announcement" around 7pm on Sunday (local time) while the liner was sailing from Napier to Tauranga
https://www.9news.com.au/world/new-zealand-news-aussies-fear-for-norwegian-jewel-passenger-overboard/0dfcdc37-45f7-452d-a15c-988c2f58821c

Possibly a suicide? I see that they have our usual Lifeline info at the bottom of the article ... something we typically see here in Australia when a suicide has happened.
 
Somehow I doubt that they all have shock induced psychosis. Heavy grieving, yes. Broken hearts, yes. But they certainly have been speaking eloquently in their recent media appearances.

It has been 5 months now since the shocking tragedy. They would have passed through a couple of the 5 stages of grief by now ... unless they are finding themselves stuck in the 2nd stage - anger - for a while. Everyone grieves at their own pace.
Maybe not psychotic, but I think their trauma has them delusional. How else could they not blame the one who literally dropped her out a window.
 
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