IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #5

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Safeguard said:
Isn't it a little early to call?

(Maybe he thought there was glass there!) ;)
Click to expand...

We don't know the situation. He could have jumped willingly for unknown (to us) reasons.
Our Aussie media always print the Lifeline info at the bottom of our articles when there has been a known suicide (I am presuming that they believe he is by now deceased).
And they don't mention that it was suicide. It is just the way we do things here, out of respect for their family.
No details are ever given, just the Lifeline info at the bottom of the articles.
 
Okay, let’s just say that RCCL was negligent. Not that I believe this for one second, BUT....

Wouldn’t you STILL be angry at this person who put your precious toddler in such a precarious position to lose her life?

there’s no getting around the fact that if he hasn’t picked Chloe up, she wouldn’t have fallen out of an open window (that he of course couldn’t see, which we KNOW is a lie)

imo.
 
12/24/19
Who leaked it?
There is no clue on who had leaked the footage, and how it will impact the pending litigation.

Michael Winkleman, the attorney representing the Wiegand family allowed the media team to view the video to know what is inside it.

“The family publicly asks the Puerto Rican authorities, why was this footage released?” the Wiegand family said in a statement released through Winkleman.

Probe sought
It asked why they are inflicting such emotional distress on the family and called for an independent investigation into the leak.

The USA Today report said the footage showed Anello lifting Chloe and prodding her to bang on the window. The office of Puerto Rico Attorney General Dennise N. Longo Quiñones said her office has no idea how the media outlet got the video.

But the statement of AG added: “A careful review of video confirms Salvatore Anello is guilty of negligent homicide as charged.”

This, however, contradicts the scenario mentioned in the lawsuit filed by the family against the cruise line.
Video Showing Final Moments Before Baby Falls Off Cruise Ship Leaked
 
Criminal Case. Slam Dunk Evidence? What about RCCL Alleged 'Violations'?
mickey2942 said:
If we think that the video is a slam dunk for evidence against SA in the Negligent Homicide charge, I wonder how many witnesses the prosecution has lined up....
1. Folks on the ship who saw the incident.
2. Safety experts to discuss the safety of the guardrails, windows
3. RCCL, with their "Passenger Information" booklets, about not using rails to hold children... (not that I ever even saw SA balance Chloe on the rail).
4. This has been big news, I wonder if there are any folks who know SA, and saw him do dumb stuff, mean things to kids...whatever, if they have come forward.
If SA doesn't take a plea, the trial should be interesting. I doubt that SA would help himself if he testified...don't do it!
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 @mickey2942 :). Yes, plenty of (potential) evd for PR prosecution to use, like your list above.
I wonder if it's likely PR will put on evidence about #3, guardrails & window safety issues. PR does not have to show cruiseline was complying w applicable safe maritime design & construction requirements, imo.
If SA/def atty puts on evd to show Fr/Seas had, say, ---
- guardrail two inches shorter than requirement*
- guardrail two or four inches further from or closer to the wall/window than requirement
- window ledge two inches lower or higher than requirement,
some ppl might think, showing such a violation helps def's case, but I don't see how.

As long as the vids** are shown (& available for replay during jury deliberations) and all jurors see SA putting his own head thru window opening, then a few/several seconds later putting Chloe thru window/holding her outside window, SA's negligent actions outweigh any (possible) technical violations like ^, in causing the toddler's death, imo.

{{ETA: added to title}}
----------------------------------------------------------------
* Reqmt. actually applicable to this cruise ship, not Winkleman's alleged but non-applicable requirements. For ex: Complaint alleges violation of ASTM F2006 – 17 which applies to multiple family apartment buildings, not to cruise ships.
** Vids released over last couple weeks, and shown in relatively clear format (clearer than first release).
 
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Only4Justice said:
Okay, let’s just say that RCCL was negligent. Not that I believe this for one second, BUT....

Wouldn’t you STILL be angry at this person who put your precious toddler in such a precarious position to lose her life?

there’s no getting around the fact that if he hasn’t picked Chloe up, she wouldn’t have fallen out of an open window (that he of course couldn’t see, which we KNOW is a lie)

imo.
Click to expand...

I would never be able to look at that person again. I would have to banish that person from my life. Or so I think. In actual fact I think it depends on so many variables, like what the family dynamic is. If it's a family member who has caused the disaster, like in this case, they may feel that after the greatest loss in their lives, they don't want to lose another family member to banishment or prison. Maybe their son is devoted to him and doesn't want Grandpa to "go away." I think this is why the parents are defending him, at least publicly.
It's hard to say when you look at all the cases of parents whose children die because the parent left the child in a hot car. I'm thinking of a case where the father left twins in the car and they perished. The mother defended him because he'd always allegedly been a great father, and he was in clear anguish that he had done this. He blamed himself completely, made no excuse for his mental lapse, and did not seek an outside scapegoat. She didn't want her other child to lose the father, too. In other cases I'm sure it's a death knell for a marriage.
I don't know, if a family member of mine in real life did this to a baby in the family, what I would actually do. I thank God I don't know and obviously never want to be in this position.
If not a family member whom I also deeply loved, then forget it, I would avenge to my last breath.
 
SouthAussie said:
Just answering my own question above ....

CBS was reported to have seen Winkleman's version of the video as early as Tues November 26th.

Grandfather cries as he recounts toddler falling to her death from a cruise ship

La Comay posted the video of the incident on Tues December 17th - 3 weeks later.

View attachment 222652

Not that this has any real meaning at the moment, aside from demonstrating that PR likely grew sick and tired of their charges against SA being questioned - considering that period was a time of plentiful press coverage.
Click to expand...
I think RCCL was sick of hearing how their boat is a death trap, too.
 
Arkay said:
I would never be able to look at that person again. I would have to banish that person from my life. Or so I think. In actual fact I think it depends on so many variables, like what the family dynamic is. If it's a family member who has caused the disaster, like in this case, they may feel that after the greatest loss in their lives, they don't want to lose another family member to banishment or prison. Maybe their son is devoted to him and doesn't want Grandpa to "go away." I think this is why the parents are defending him, at least publicly.
It's hard to say when you look at all the cases of parents whose children die because the parent left the child in a hot car. I'm thinking of a case where the father left twins in the car and they perished. The mother defended him because he'd always allegedly been a great father, and he was in clear anguish that he had done this. He blamed himself completely, made no excuse for his mental lapse, and did not seek an outside scapegoat. She didn't want her other child to lose the father, too. In other cases I'm sure it's a death knell for a marriage.
I don't know, if a family member of mine in real life did this to a baby in the family, what I would actually do. I thank God I don't know and obviously never want to be in this position.
If not a family member whom I also deeply loved, then forget it, I would avenge to my last breath.
Click to expand...

ADD to this, this is a stepfather. I know of what I speak, I’ve had 3. One was for 20 years and he loved my baby boys. He has since passed and I had another one for the next 10 years.

one thing is being able to forgive a blood relative; a step is NOT.

no way on God’s green earth would I not be completely pissed at him in this case. I wouldn’t even be able to do it for my mother. Sorry.

All JMO
 
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Kittybunny said:
BBM. Although personally I don't believe alcohol was the cause of this negligence, I will say that just because SA did not PERSONALLY buy any alcohol, in no way shape or form does that mean he didn't drink any. Any one else in his family could have purchased rounds for the group. Also, if they had just boarded and there was a welcome party- there could have been complimentary alcohol and it's not that hard to get a couple free ones in. (As I did on my first cruise as an 18-year old, granted it's been awhile).
Click to expand...
Uh-oh, next SA will have been dehydrated.
 
Dad-AW Took Pic. Fast. Who Added Graphics? Why Not in Complaint?
SouthAussie said:
Not to mention that Chloe's dad was out there taking a photo of the window on the night of the afternoon that Chloe died....
Click to expand...
@SouthAussie :) Good point about fast thinking re lawsuit and Dad-AW taking pic soon after Chloe's death, which was ~4:30pm. And pic was taken w dark/night skies, so before sunrise the next day. Would AW and KSW (and/or other fam members ?) have stayed on ship that night? When was ship scheduled to leave dock/begin cruise? Sat eve? Or after midnight, so tech'ly Sun? When did ship leave? Seems pic was taken w'in ~ 12 hrs. of death. DM published article on July 9, printed w caption about Dad taking it.
So ---
1. Who added the red and blue arrows, notations, graphics?
---AW?
--- law. firm/ Winkleman?
--- Daily Mail?
2. Why is this pic not in the series of pix in complaint? Because ---
- Pic does not show relevant info?
-Atty W did not want to draw attn to pic Dad took so soon {{ETA:not for jurors to contemplate}}?
- Other?

Thoughts on ^ pls. TiA.
 
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Winky
Safeguard said:
Another thing I found telling from the interview with Winkleman was where he says this :

"She's sitting on the wooden banister, why did he then lean forward with her?" Begnaud asked Winkleman.

"I think it's pretty obvious why they leaned forward, and that would be so that you could get a better view," Winkleman said."

What happened to," they leaned forward so she could bang on the glass?" o_O
Click to expand...
Winky is so snide and put out about the question. He replies like - what a stupid question, DUH, isn’t it obvious, h, he and the 18 month old were getting a better view!
 
they'll get you said:
View attachment 222733
This middle photo shows a man in a blue shirt facing SA & Chloe and in the side-on video he appears to be looking at the incident.
Do you think he saw?

Video Releases Of Toddler Who Fell Out Of Grandpa's Arms On Cruise Ship • The Hollywood Unlocked
Click to expand...

I certainly hope so (not for his sake of course, but for the sake of the cases).

He seems to be looking all around the place. And it looks like he had a person sitting in front of him for a while, then that person got up and left - which then gave him a definite clear view of SA bending over with Chloe way out there somewhere.

I also notice at the critical moment a bartender has already just crossed back to the corner of the bar closest to SA and Chloe, and is faced in that direction.

TGY's linked article contains a very short clip of the video showing this, so it easy to look at multiple times, if anyone else is interested.
 
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Only4Justice said:
Okay, let’s just say that RCCL was negligent. Not that I believe this for one second, BUT....

Wouldn’t you STILL be angry at this person who put your precious toddler in such a precarious position to lose her life?

there’s no getting around the fact that if he hasn’t picked Chloe up, she wouldn’t have fallen out of an open window (that he of course couldn’t see, which we KNOW is a lie)

imo.
Click to expand...
Let's take a look at this more closely...

Everything that looks so horrible, unseemly or suspicious about how people are behaving in this case, ( family, Sam, lawyers), If we are mistaken, and Sam is telling the truth, (We're not. He's lying imo, but IF)...

If SA really did think there was glass there, then every single thing they are doing makes perfect sense.

It was still poor judgement of course to put Chloe on the rail, because she could have still gotten hurt, but most likely she would have just slapped at the glass and all would be well....

So, If SA, mom, dad ect... were 100% telling the truth, and the authorities were spinning it differently right from the jump, as angry as they undoubtedly are at Sam, they might be moved to fight back against, what could be seen as an attack on their family and a misrepresentation of how the accident occurred.

Everything that they are doing makes perfect sense under those circumstances and is really the only thing that ever made wonder for a second, "What if we are the ones who are "wrong" and they really are are telling the truth? That would be a terrible, terrible, predicament, because no one will ever believe them. Not. Ever.

And there will always be a small chance, that we don't actually know what we all seem so certain of.

There are people who believe she was deliberately murdered. I get frustrated by the insistence of those people, so I can only imagine how infuriating it would be to be falsely accused and have the entire world believe your a guilty liar. ( Like the Ramsey's, even after being formally acquitted, they'll be "guilty" forever, even though no one can prove it!).

I will be very interested in what the PC forensic team have to say about that video footage. Yes, indeed...
 
al66pine said:
Dad-AW Took Pic. Fast. Who Added Graphics? Why Not in Complaint?

1. Who added the red and blue arrows, notations, graphics?
---AW?
--- law. firm/ Winkleman?
--- Daily Mail?
Thoughts on ^ pls. TiA.
Click to expand...

I noticed on Winkleman's website that they show examples of the graphics they produce for their trials.

Court Exhibits - LMAW, P.A.

I noticed this a week or so ago, and it crossed my mind at the time, what are the exhibits going to look like for this case?
Something like this?

z.JPG
 
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