IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #6

[SpanishInquisition]

Winkleman is representing "the family" of which it could be said that SA is a part of. I do agree about impacting SA's criminal case - such as when he said "obviously to get a better view." But, it does appear that Winkleman has been given leave to speak for SA, also, at times.

Winkleman expressly does not represent SA, but rather represents the Wiegands:
"You have to assume that it shows something that really led the Puerto Rican authorities to believe there was criminal offense, so clearly there's something in that video," Winkleman, who is not representing Anello, told CBS.
Grandfather of toddler who died in cruise ship fall doesn't fear prosecution: "They can't do anything worse to me"
Winkleman, who represents the Wiegands, said the lawsuit doesn’t specify damages. However, since the accident happened in port and not at sea, the family can seek full damages.
Family files lawsuit against Royal Caribbean over Indiana toddler’s fatal plunge on cruise ship

Even civilly it raises ethical issues as SA's voluntary statement done at the encouragement of Winkleman where he confessed to holding onto Chloe with one hand while she was on a railing could be used in a civil suit against (over and above used against him in the criminal) by the Wiegands if they dumped Winkleman for another civil attorney. The Wiegands and SA's interests are not the same from a civil standpoint, so even if Winkleman was representing SA civilly, he just set up his own client to be in a position to lose if he got sued by the Wiegands. SA is not a named litigant in the lawsuit against RCCL so he has no pecuniary interest so far, but he could be named a defendant by the Wiegands and become a criminal convict due to Winkleman's machinations.

 

[weepingangel]

Royal Caribbean says video shows grandfather knew window was open before dropping toddler
CBS Evening News

 

[borndem]

Just saw this -- it may be just a recap, but it was released today:

Cruise Line Blames Grandfather for Ind. Toddler's Fatal Fall, Claims He Knew Window Was Open

Chloe Wiegand's family has filed a wrongful death lawsuit against Royal Caribbean

By Greg Hanlon...January 17, 2020 01:14 PM

Facing a lawsuit from the family of a toddler girl who fell to her death out of a cruise ship window last July, Royal Caribbean moved to dismiss the case, saying in court documents that blame for the tragedy lies with the child’s grandfather.
[...]
In a motion to dismiss the suit filed Jan. 8 and obtained by PEOPLE, Royal Caribbean, citing a closed-circuit video taken of the accident, claimed Anello knew the window was open.

“Because Mr. Anello had himself leaned out the window, he was well aware that the window was open,” the motion said. “In addition, the windows in question consist of greenish-tinted glass making it open and obvious where a window is open versus closed.”

More here:
Cruise Line Blames Grandfather for Ind. Toddler's Fatal Fall, Claims He Knew Window Was Open

 

[1&2&3]

I have never paid any attention to SA’s reported age. However, in the last several pages of the discussion on his age vs appearance, IMO he looks closer to being in his late sixties.

If SA does have a drinking problem, I feel sure RCCL lawyers and investigators have been working tirelessly on the background of SA. I am not sure how good the Puerto Rico authorities are, but am confident RCCL will not leave a leaf uncovered! RCCL will know more about SA than he probably remembers.

 

[Forever Young]

Winkleman expressly does not represent SA, but rather represents the Wiegands:
"You have to assume that it shows something that really led the Puerto Rican authorities to believe there was criminal offense, so clearly there's something in that video," Winkleman, who is not representing Anello, told CBS.
Grandfather of toddler who died in cruise ship fall doesn't fear prosecution: "They can't do anything worse to me"
Winkleman, who represents the Wiegands, said the lawsuit doesn’t specify damages. However, since the accident happened in port and not at sea, the family can seek full damages.
Family files lawsuit against Royal Caribbean over Indiana toddler’s fatal plunge on cruise ship

Even civilly it raises ethical issues as SA's voluntary statement done at the encouragement of Winkleman where he confessed to holding onto Chloe with one hand while she was on a railing could be used in a civil suit against (over and above used against him in the criminal) by the Wiegands if they dumped Winkleman for another civil attorney. The Wiegands and SA's interests are not the same from a civil standpoint, so even if Winkleman was representing SA civilly, he just set up his own client to be in a position to lose if he got sued by the Wiegands. SA is not a named litigant in the lawsuit against RCCL so he has no pecuniary interest so far, but he could be named a defendant by the Wiegands and become a criminal convict due to Winkleman's machinations.

Kind of confusing, because it seems that Winkleman represents Anello in the civil case, while the other attorney in Puerto Rico is defending him in the criminal case.

I've seen Winkleman described as the Wiegands' attorney, and the family's attorney, which led me to believe that he represents the entire family that was on board ship that day. Four family members appeared at the press conference with Winkleman present.

"The family's attorney, Michael Winkleman, called Royal Caribbean's motion to dismiss "baseless and deceptive," and maintained that Anello "never knew there was an open window."

"It is clear that Royal Caribbean's tactic is to blame Chloe's grandfather rather than to accept that Royal Caribbean did not implement industry standards for toddler safety aboard its ships which ultimately led to Chloe's tragic death," Winkleman said in a statement. "Royal Caribbean has premised its defense in this case and its blame on Chloe's grandfather by supplying two deceptive views from its CCTV cameras to the court and the Puerto Rico authorities."

Royal Caribbean says video shows grandfather knew window was open before dropping toddler

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I have never paid any attention to SA’s reported age. However, in the last several pages of the discussion on his age vs appearance, IMO he looks closer to being in his late sixties.

If SA does have a drinking problem, I feel sure RCCL lawyers and investigators have been working tirelessly on the background of SA. I am not sure how good the Puerto Rico authorities are, but am confident RCCL will not leave a leaf uncovered! RCCL will know more about SA than he probably remembers.

I thought it was fishy - right out of the gate - that Winkleman stated "alcohol was not an issue" and that "SA was not a drinker". MW didn't know SA, had never met the man, yet he was making a claim about SA's drinking habits. MW even proclaimed in one of his interviews that "SA had not even charged a bottled water" to his cruise card. This does not mean that SA had not had something to drink in his stateroom or the stateroom of another member of the family travel group, or on the flight from Chicago prior to boarding the ship.

Chloe's parents advised SA not to submit to a breathalyzer or blood testing at the time of the incident, so there might be no proof of Grandpa having been intoxicated at the time of the incident. That said, if SA has a history of DUIs or other alcohol-related issues, RCCL will bring this to the table. The cruise line will also know if alcohol (wine, champagne) was brought onboard by members of the family group and/or whether any of them had a prepaid beverage package or prepaid bottles of alcohol delivered to their stateroom/s. RCCL has probably also contacted the airline that the family flew to San Juan for a record of drink/s ordered by Mr. Anello, if he did have alcohol on the flight to PR.

 

[al66pine]

FL Sup Ct Rule. Frivolous/Baseless Lawsuits? Sanctions?

....Don’t lawyers have an obligation to not bring forth baseless lawsuits that serve only to clog up the court systems? Isn’t it an attorney’s duty to determine if their clients even have a case?....I’ve heard of attorneys being sanctioned for such behavior.

@Chikkamma In short, leaves a lot of leeway, jmo. FL Sup Ct. Rule & Official Comment.
"4-3. ADVOCATE RULE
4-3.1 MERITORIOUS CLAIMS AND CONTENTIONS
A lawyer shall not bring or defend a proceeding, or assert or controvert an issue therein, unless there is a basis in law and fact for doing so that is not frivolous, which includes a good faith argument for an extension, modification, or reversal of existing law.
"Comment
The advocate has a duty to use legal procedure for the fullest benefit of the client’s cause, but also a duty not to abuse legal procedure. The law, both procedural and substantive, establishes the limits within which an advocate may proceed. However, the law is not always clear and never is static. Accordingly, in determining the proper scope of advocacy, account must be taken of the law’s ambiguities and potential for change. The filing of an action or defense or similar action taken for a client is not frivolous merely because the facts have not first been fully substantiated or because the lawyer expects to develop vital evidence only by discovery. What is required of lawyers, however, is that they inform themselves about the facts of their clients’ cases and the applicable law and determine that they can make good faith arguments in support of their clients’ positions. Such action is not frivolous even though the lawyer believes that the client’s position ultimately will not prevail. The action is frivolous, however, if the lawyer is unable either to make a good faith argument on the merits of the action taken or to support the action taken by a good faith argument for an extension, modification, or reversal of existing law."
* https://www-media.floridabar.org/uploads/2019/09/Ch-4-from-2020_03-SEP-RRTFB-9-19-19-3.pdf,
^ dated Sept 119, 2019. bbm

Sanctions for Filing Frivolous Lawsuits? (factoid: 107,000 Attys Licensed in FL)
FL Bar News, Disciplinary Actions summarizes FL Sup Ct's disciplinary actions against FL attys, including disbarments, revocations and suspensions of law licenses, public reprimands. Also orders to attend classes on ethics, handling client trust funds; drug and alcohol treatment, etc.
Skimming thru 10 months of announcements I did not see any disciplinary actions for filing frivilous lawsuits. Does not mean atty's do not do it, does not mean they are not disciplined for it. Just means
for announcements those 10 mo's, other violations were the bases for discipline.

 

[neesaki]

You’re not alone in thinking he looks older than 50/51. My 75 year old husband looks younger and our 49 year old daughter looks nowhere near that old. Of course, people age differently, but I placed him closer to 60+ initially.

In the same boat, for one thing his wife, KW’s mom, IIRC, is 10-12 years older than him and looks about the same age as he does.

And my DH is 62 and looks at least as young as SA if not younger

Am I the only one who noticed SA’s seemingly toothless smile. Reminds me of an old great uncle I had who stopped wearing his dentures.

I don’t know that any of this is relevant at all, other than, this debate was spurred on by media reporting that he was this elderly GF, as though he was 80 and senile or something. They asked for it, they got it.

Because 51 is not elderly! .

 

[neesaki]

So many comments in the Daily Mail article refer to SA’s drinking problem and multiple citations for DUI’s. Is there any truth to this?

I know about his multiple seatbelt violations but I’ve never heard anything about a DUI or a drinking habit.

I saw that too, where is that coming from? Anyone?

 

[Forever Young]

Winkleman expressly does not represent SA, but rather represents the Wiegands:
"You have to assume that it shows something that really led the Puerto Rican authorities to believe there was criminal offense, so clearly there's something in that video," Winkleman, who is not representing Anello, told CBS.
Grandfather of toddler who died in cruise ship fall doesn't fear prosecution: "They can't do anything worse to me"
Winkleman, who represents the Wiegands, said the lawsuit doesn’t specify damages. However, since the accident happened in port and not at sea, the family can seek full damages.
Family files lawsuit against Royal Caribbean over Indiana toddler’s fatal plunge on cruise ship

Even civilly it raises ethical issues as SA's voluntary statement done at the encouragement of Winkleman where he confessed to holding onto Chloe with one hand while she was on a railing could be used in a civil suit against (over and above used against him in the criminal) by the Wiegands if they dumped Winkleman for another civil attorney. The Wiegands and SA's interests are not the same from a civil standpoint, so even if Winkleman was representing SA civilly, he just set up his own client to be in a position to lose if he got sued by the Wiegands. SA is not a named litigant in the lawsuit against RCCL so he has no pecuniary interest so far, but he could be named a defendant by the Wiegands and become a criminal convict due to Winkleman's machinations.

I do understand what you're saying here though, as to who brought the suit, and how the Wiegands' interests are not the same as SA's.

 

[Montrealaise]

IMO, it is not his job to investigate, or determine whether what they are saying is the truth. He is paid to stand in their shoes, and articulate what they are saying, and to navigate their case through the courts. It is the judge or jury who determines if what they say is true.

When I was reading on the "Motion to Dismiss" yesterday, I came across the statement that the court assumes that what the plaintiff says is true at this point. I.E. a "Motion to Dismiss" is common procedure, but not easy to pull off.

Motions to dismiss are rarely granted, but the cruise line's attorneys know that so I don't really think they hope to win this motion. I believe their real motivation is to get the truth out there and counter all the things Winkleman has been saying publicly for the past six months - that it was a children's play area, that the window did not meet safety standards, and so on and on. Winkleman has been trying this case in the media, trying to get the public on his client's side, but two can play that game - by having the motion explicitly spell out what the video shows, namely that SA knew the window was open and acted in an extremely negligent manner.

 

[jeena]

In the same boat, for one thing his wife, KW’s mom, IIRC, is 10-12 years older than him and looks about the same age as he does.

And my DH is 62 and looks at least as young as SA if not younger

Am I the only one who noticed SA’s seemingly toothless smile. Reminds me of an old great uncle I had who stopped wearing his dentures.

I don’t know that any of this is relevant at all, other than, this debate was spurred on by media reporting that he was this elderly GF, as though he was 80 and senile or something. They asked for it, they got it.

Because 51 is not elderly! .

In one photo, you can see his front, top teeth, they look small and separated, like he would be a good candidate for veneers or something.
Speaking of age, I'm 60+ and last week a clerk at a convenience store asked me for proof when I asked to buy a lottery ticket! I said, "what, are you kidding?" I actually had to leave the store and get my license out of my car to buy the ticket. You never know how old somebody really is! BTW, I noticed grandma Anello looked like she dyed her hair for the family interview, she looked younger than her photos.

 

[Montrealaise]

You’re not alone in thinking he looks older than 50/51. My 75 year old husband looks younger and our 49 year old daughter looks nowhere near that old. Of course, people age differently, but I placed him closer to 60+ initially.

I showed my 67-year-old husband a picture of SA and asked him to guess how old he was (hubby has not followed the case at all and I didn't tell him who SA is). He estimated that SA in his early 70s and was shocked to learn that he's only 51.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Kind of confusing, because it seems that Winkleman represents Anello in the civil case, while the other attorney in Puerto Rico is defending him in the criminal case.

I've seen Winkleman described as the Wiegands' attorney, and the family's attorney, which led me to believe that he represents the entire family that was on board ship that day. Four family members appeared at the press conference with Winkleman present.

"The family's attorney, Michael Winkleman, called Royal Caribbean's motion to dismiss "baseless and deceptive," and maintained that Anello "never knew there was an open window."

"It is clear that Royal Caribbean's tactic is to blame Chloe's grandfather rather than to accept that Royal Caribbean did not implement industry standards for toddler safety aboard its ships which ultimately led to Chloe's tragic death," Winkleman said in a statement. "Royal Caribbean has premised its defense in this case and its blame on Chloe's grandfather by supplying two deceptive views from its CCTV cameras to the court and the Puerto Rico authorities."

Royal Caribbean says video shows grandfather knew window was open before dropping toddler

Yes, he gives that impression but here is the actual lawsuit filed where it is by the Wiegands only with SA not named as a litigant, which this comes right from Winkleman's own website:
Complaint - Wiegand vs Royal Caribbean Cruises LTD - LMAW, PA
That these sorts of issues and impressions come up is precisely what's wrong with what Winkleman is doing. Chloe's father could for instance realistically divorce Chloe's mother and sue SA over and above the criminal implications of what Winkleman has done to SA, which Chloe's father would have a very good claim against SA even if RCCL had contributory negligence due to SA's taped confession done at the instigation of Winkleman. SA from both a civil and criminal standpoint had everything to lose and nothing to gain by Winkleman getting SA to admit to a one-handed hold with Chloe on a railing immediately before the fall.

 

[they'll get you]

There appear to be live cameras around the dock but somehow I’m blocked from Australia but I’m sure there are other websites around. I’ll keep looking.


Example.
San Juan (Puerto Rico) cruise port schedule | CruiseMapper

 

[neesaki]

I meant Etsy, not easy. Sorry about all my typos today, just heard a friend was killed by her husband.

Oh no, I’m so sorry, justce4. (hugs)

 

[neesaki]

Would you please let us know once you post it? I’d like to follow the thread.

I’m very sorry about your friend. It seems like this type of domestic violence where death of one or both is on the rise and very concerning!!!

So true, something’s going so, so wrong in the world. JMHO

 

[Aydrianna523]

In the same boat, for one thing his wife, KW’s mom, IIRC, is 10-12 years older than him and looks about the same age as he does.

And my DH is 62 and looks at least as young as SA if not younger

Am I the only one who noticed SA’s seemingly toothless smile. Reminds me of an old great uncle I had who stopped wearing his dentures.

I don’t know that any of this is relevant at all, other than, this debate was spurred on by media reporting that he was this elderly GF, as though he was 80 and senile or something. They asked for it, they got it.

Because 51 is not elderly! .

Yeah, I thought he definitely looked in his late 60's. It's possibly because of his hair?
Fifty-one, however, is barely out of your 40s.
Not sure if that is because of alcohol. They claim not but...

 

[al66pine]

Who Does Winkleman Represent?
@Forever Young Easy peasy.
Look at front page of Complaint.
ALAN WIEGAND and KIMBERLY SCHULTZ-WIEGAND,
Individually and as Personal Representatives
of the Estate of Chloe Wiegand, deceased minor,
Plaintiffs,

Look at signature block on last page
LIPCON, MARGULIES, ALSINA & WINKLEMAN, P.A.
Attorneys for Plaintiffs
.... sbm... .contact details
By: /s/ Michael A. Winkleman
....sbm .contact details

There, wasn't that straightforward? Winkleman represents Mom and Dad.
Winkleman does not rep SA. Not in the civil suit. Not in the criminal case. Nope.

BTW, the contract, probably titled Letter of Engagement, has terms of the representation, and would be signed by KS-W and AW and by Winkleman (<--probably, or alternatively another atty in firm).

In the petition, there's room for a bit of confusion, because of some crafty phrasing:
"10. On or about July 7, 2019, Mr. Wiegand, Mrs. Schultz-Wiegand, Chloe, Chloe’s brother,
and Mrs. Schultz-Wiegand’s mother and stepfather, Salvatore Anello (“Mr. Anello”) (at times collectively referred to as “the family”), were fare-paying passengers, along with several other family members aboard the vessel...."

See how that "the family" phrase snuck in there, aaaaallllmost as if someone drafting it meant to give the impression that Winkleman was rep'ing all of the named individuals there. Ppl not familiar w these kind of details & nuances might be/are likely to be misled.

Plus The Family's December media conference re lawsuit, all four sitting there w Winkleman, and SA commenting, as if he had been an innocent bystander.
jmo.

 

[redabby]

Cruise line says grandfather knew window was open before Granger girl fell to her death

Snipped


But in its motion, the cruise line argues it has no duty to protect against unforeseeable incidents.

"His actions, which no reasonable person could have foreseen, were reckless and irresponsible and the sole reason why Chloe is no longer with her parents," the document says.

In a statement to the Indianapolis Star, Winkleman said Royal Caribbean's motion was "baseless and deceptive."

"It is clear that Royal Caribbean’s tactic is to blame Chloe’s grandfather rather than to accept that Royal Caribbean did not implement industry standards for toddler safety aboard its ships," Winkleman said in the statement Friday.