IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand

[BetteDavisEyes]

I'm willing to bet that the video shows grandpa held her outside the window. Not just resting on the railing.

The initial report that I read about this tragic incident included a witness comment from a crew member that SA was rocking Chloe back and forth in the open window. There is absolutely no reason for a crew member to lie about something so important. I suspect that there were other onboard witnesses whose testimony will reveal exactly what Grandpa was doing when Chloe plunged to her death. Once ship-chasing Winkleman entered the picture, the story changed to the "banging on the glass" and that SA "thought the window was closed".

 

[oviedo]

So is the window she fell out of the middle one or top.? Seems like every other middle window is open but not top?

Parents of Indiana toddler who died on cruise ship share their grief | Daily Mail Online
From the article - looks like the middle window

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

The initial report that I read about this tragic incident included a witness comment from a crew member that SA was rocking Chloe back and forth in the open window. There is absolutely no reason for a crew member to lie about something so important. I suspect that there were other onboard witnesses whose testimony will reveal exactly what Grandpa was doing when Chloe plunged to her death. Once ship-chasing Winkleman entered the picture, the story changed to the "banging on the glass" and that SA "thought the window was closed".

That's never a good thing when stories change.

 

[Medstudies]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed before, if so I apologize, but this explains the difference between port side and starboard side on ships/boats. When one is standing on a vessel lookin forward toward the bow, port side is left and starboard is right. Port side is not necessarily the side that is adjacent to the dock.

Why do ships use 'port' and 'starboard' instead of 'left' and 'right?'

Great point! Looking at the footage (screen grab attached) it looks like the port side of the ship is the side from which she fell.

 

[Seattle1]

Parents of Indiana toddler who died on cruise ship share their grief | Daily Mail Online
From the article - looks like the middle window

The text of the article and the graphic state it's the far left window that was open. I agree it looks like the center or middle window open to me. Also read that the photos were taken by Chloe's dad after the accident.

 

[Seattle1]

Family of Girl Killed in Cruise Fall Pens Emotional Obituary

Chloe's obit. Forever a playful, happy child.

Condolences and peace to her family and friends.

 

[MsBetsy]

The initial report that I read about this tragic incident included a witness comment from a crew member that SA was rocking Chloe back and forth in the open window. There is absolutely no reason for a crew member to lie about something so important. I suspect that there were other onboard witnesses whose testimony will reveal exactly what Grandpa was doing when Chloe plunged to her death. Once ship-chasing Winkleman entered the picture, the story changed to the "banging on the glass" and that SA "thought the window was closed".

This is why I think he was playing a game. He was "pretending" she was going to fall to tease and scare her.
If he was rocking her outward and back in the window I can't think of any other reason why he would do that.
Imo

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

This is why I think he was playing a game. He was "pretending" she was going to fall to tease and scare her.
If he was rocking her outward and back in the window I can't think of any other reason why he would do that.
Imo

If or when Chloe's parents watch video and see Grandpa's reckless actions, I wonder if they will continue to blame RCCL for having windows that open? This would have been the case on practically any other ship because most have the same open deck features with tinted windows that open for ventilation and for guests to enjoy the sea air and breezes.

 

[oviedo]

The text of the article and the graphic state it's the far left window that was open. I agree it looks like the center or middle window open to me. Also read that the photos were taken by Chloe's dad after the accident.

I agree the top windows (if they open) would be hard to reach without a ladder IMO - I’m going to check this out in December myself

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

But WHY WOULD ANYONE DO THAT TO A BABY?!
With the sitting on the railing it was idiotic...
If he held her OUTSIDE THE WINDOW that is cruel... basically homicidal.
If someone held my baby outside an 11th story window and then pulled them back inside, I'd consider that person a danger to my child's life. Period.




I'd refuse a breathalyzer and request an immediate blood test. I would think that's what Chloe's Dad would have advised if he was concerned about the accuracy of breathalyzers.

Yes, Yes, and Yes. ALL the YESSES.

 

[justbreathe]

You’ve mixed up the civil lawyer with a potential criminal defense lawyer.

I do wonder why their criminal atty hadn’t told him to shut the heck up?

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

This is why I think he was playing a game. He was "pretending" she was going to fall to tease and scare her.
If he was rocking her outward and back in the window I can't think of any other reason why he would do that.
Imo

There may be other reasons, but right now I don't want to go there...

 

[justbreathe]

Is the camera on the inside of the ship or outside facing the window? What angle did the camera show?
We also don't know how clear the image is.
Video evidence is great but an eyewitness is also direct evidence so it may be helpful too.
The video may not have captured what he was saying, either.

Imo

Ships are full of cameras, inside and out. I imagine there are several videos showing this horrible event.

 

[MsBetsy]

I do wonder why their criminal atty hadn’t told him to shut the heck up?

Do they have one yet? Has he or she made a statement?
All I have read has come from the other lawyer.

Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

There may be other reasons, but right now I don't want to go there...

Well, unless he was helping her play "peek a boo" with someone on the ground, I don't know what other reasonable explanation there would be.
I doubt he dropped her intentionally.
Either way, the reason doesn't really matter. It was an accident that was caused by his poor judgement and reckless behavior.
His mistake was not being truthful in the beginning. All the different stories we have heard make him sound even more guilty.
Putting the blame on the ship only makes matters worse.

Imo

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Well, unless he was helping her play "peek a boo" with someone on the ground, I don't know what other reasonable explanation there would be.
I doubt he dropped her intentionally.
Either way, the reason doesn't really matter. It was an accident that was caused by his poor judgement and reckless behavior.
His mistake was not being truthful in the beginning. All the different stories we have heard make him sound even more guilty.
Putting the blame on the ship only makes matters worse.

Imo

Whatever was going on seems FAR from reasonable according to what we've seen so far. Makes less and less sense the further into this case we get. IMOO

 

[justbreathe]

Here’s another screen grab of the railing/gap to window

I imagine the railing was placed at that height (and rounded) to both prevent folks from leaning (or tripping and falling) out the window, AND to discourage folks from using it as a platform for drinks, plates, bags, phones, and, most importantly, children.

 

[LietKynes]

The initial report that I read about this tragic incident included a witness comment from a crew member that SA was rocking Chloe back and forth in the open window. There is absolutely no reason for a crew member to lie about something so important. I suspect that there were other onboard witnesses whose testimony will reveal exactly what Grandpa was doing when Chloe plunged to her death. Once ship-chasing Winkleman entered the picture, the story changed to the "banging on the glass" and that SA "thought the window was closed".

LBM
Let's not forget that she was supposedly a "hockey fan".... b/c it goes so well with the 'banging on the glass' fairytale.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Ships are full of cameras, inside and out. I imagine there are several videos showing this horrible event.

Plenty of surveillance cameras on the dock and cruise terminal, as well.

 

[LietKynes]

That's 100% what I think the facts will show. Sadly!
Otherwise, why Neg. Homicide and not Manslaughter?

Ita. ^^^

Hence my comment earlier about SA dangling her out the window.
If that's what happened -- it'd indicate he knew the window was open and was actively holding her by her arm(s) or leg(s) or torso.
Goes beyond just playing a game.
It could have been intentional.
But we'll know more Nov. 30th.

I'm trusting that the ships' crew saw something unthinkable-- but the CC cameras will have captured this as well !