IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand

[Kakidoll]

I think you're too sleepy and you'll understand better when you come back more awake. The "colors" are put there by me to identify what I was referring to in the photo. There are no colors put anywhere by RC so no need to research anything.

Here's the original photo:

Here's the one I added colors shapes to as to highlight what I was referring to:

View attachment 213172

I do hope you manage to get some more sleep and your toe feels better

Purple square is speaker for announcements, Red Circle is camera, green are sprinklers.

 

[IceIce9]

Go to the small menu tab that looks like a postage stamp and "unselect" the "strike through" for the part you want left intact....

Good find.
That is VERY damning evidence.
It's possible this was not an accident.

MOO, I think it is quite possibly he played the “scare the child” game by holding her out the window to scare her, not intending to drop her of course.

Maybe he was expecting her to grab him tightly at which time he would bring her back inside. Instead, maybe she struggled so violently that it threw him off balance and he dropped her. She could have been so frightened that she just squirmed out of his grip.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

MOO, I think it is quite possibly he played the “scare the child” game by holding her out the window to scare her, not intending to drop her of course.

Maybe he was expecting her to grab him tightly at which time he would bring her back inside. Instead, maybe she struggled so violently that it threw him off balance and he dropped her. She could have been so frightened that she just squirmed out of his grip.

When Grandpa was holding Chloe in the open window, do you think she was facing out to see activity on the dock, or was she facing Grandpa? I've always imagined that Chloe wanted to look at whatever SA was looking at on the dock. Lots of activity below during embarkation for the start of a new cruise. In that case, Chloe would have been facing away from Grandpa and would have fallen face down If she was frightened, she wouldn't have been able to grab onto him without turning around.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

When Grandpa was holding Chloe in the open window, do you think she was facing out to see activity on the dock, or was she facing Grandpa? I've always imagined that Chloe wanted to look at whatever SA was looking at on the dock. Lots of activity below during embarkation for the start of a new cruise. In that case, Chloe would have been facing away from Grandpa and would have fallen face down

Facing out, her shoes would have been up against any window. Facing in, I could understand her flipping over backwards. His problem was I thought there was glass there so she could bang on it. It’s turquoise. Not clear. How can you not tell there’s no glass there?

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Facing out, her shoes would have been up against any window. Facing in, I could understand her flipping over backwards. His problem was I thought there was glass there so she could bang on it. It’s turquoise. Not clear. How can you not tell there’s no glass there?

EXACTLY!!

 

[LietKynes]

Word of the Day = Ebullient. Do Pix & Testimonials Tell the Truth?
@LietKynes bbm sbm
^ "ebullient" = one of my favorite words, right up there w "oleaginous." [ˌōlēˈajənəs]

greasy · slippery · slimy · sebaceous · pinguid · unctuous · fatty · buttery ·
swimming in oil/fat · fawning · ingratiating · smooth · smooth-talking · fulsome · flattering · glib ·
exaggeratedly and distastefully complimentary; obsequious.
"candidates made the usual oleaginous speeches in the debate"
synonyms:
obsequious · sycophantic · excessively deferential · subservient · fawning

Thanks, @al66pine !

I totally 'dig' your posts.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Facing out, her shoes would have been up against any window. Facing in, I could understand her flipping over backwards. His problem was I thought there was glass there so she could bang on it. It’s turquoise. Not clear. How can you not tell there’s no glass there?

I've seen at least one photo of SA wearing glasses. I wonder if he had his glasses on at the time of Chloe's fall. I don't buy that he didn't know that the window was open, but it's possible that Grandpa wasn't able to discern this without glasses.

 

[LietKynes]

Ok that’s my homework when I hit the Voyager in 5-6 weeks. I’ll test the windows sliding, height and I’ll check for cameras on the pool deck. I’ll try for videos and photos too.

Freedom isn’t a sister ship but in that video it looked everything similar so I’ll do my best.

LBM

Thank you for your efforts in showing us what the evidence might have looked like, @they'll get you !

Imo-- It's abundantly clear from some of the photos and videos that the splash pad/ play area are a good distance from any windows--- none of which are low enough for a toddler to walk over and slip through.
Curious how long the lawyer and parents will keep touting this.
"Touting" : .
" 1. attempt to sell (something), typically by pestering people in an aggressive or bold manner...."

 

[MsMarple]

I agree.

And not arguing (really!). in the case of McD’s: they had quietly settled over 700 cases of burns over the previous 10 years. They also served their coffee 40-50 degrees above the recommended industry standard temperature.

they KNEW it was a problem. And that was why they got burned in the end.

Yes, that was the point my daughter was trying to make; in that case the jury awarded a very high amount, even after finding the woman partially to blame, because they were upset at the company's reactions. The amount was so high that the judge actually reduced the award.

The point was that juries can be affected emotionally and sometimes that factors into the verdict. It'll be interesting to see what happens in this case, assuming the civil suit ever reaches the courtroom. My opinion remains firm that RCCL couldn't have anticipated the grandfather's actions but a jury may see it differently.

 

[LietKynes]

Purple square is speaker for announcements, Red Circle is camera, green are sprinklers.

Glad to see you are back and well.
Your hijacked post on this thread had me worried...

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

...Imo-- It's abundantly clear from some of the photos and videos that the splash pad/ play area are a good distance from any windows--- none of which are low enough for a toddler to walk over and slip through...

It would be beneficial for jurors to actually see the children's water/play area and its proximity to the windows in question. I think a field trip to Freedom of the Seas if/when it's in port so the jury can experience the area first hand is in order

 

[oviedo]

I traveled aboard the Freedom of the Seas about 3 weeks ago. I sat every day in this area of the ship. Every 5th or 6th window slides open, and every day they were open. I really doubt these windows will be permanently closed. Was this a tragedy? Absolutely!
But it could have 100% been avoided if the child was not placed in an area that not meant for sitting. A little common sense by the adult was all that was needed to avoid what happened. Moo

Great information - do you recall when you docked at a port was the smoking side of the ship facing the dock or was it the non-smoking side? and was it every time do you know? I realize it's a lot to ask you to remember but I am very curious about which side of the ship faced the dock in San Juan.

 

[Kakidoll]

Glad to see you are back and well.
Your hijacked post on this thread had me worried...

Thank you. Very strange. It was not showing up on my posts under my account... so not sure if it was actually someone hacked in or just a WS mess up. Either way... its VERY nice to know that you and others pointed it out and made sure i was ok. Considering 2 of our members had strokes recently... and i do live alone and am older, having my online 'friends' looking out for me makes me feel so good!

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Great information - do you recall when you docked at a port was the smoking side of the ship facing the dock or was it the non-smoking side? and was it every time do you know? I realize it's a lot to ask you to remember but I am very curious about which side of the ship faced the dock in San Juan.

My DH was in the Navy and he said on the leeward side of the ship there is sometimes no wind.

 

[oviedo]

Thank you. Very strange. It was not showing up on my posts under my account... so not sure if it was actually someone hacked in or just a WS mess up. Either way... its VERY nice to know that you and others pointed it out and made sure i was ok. Considering 2 of our members had strokes recently... and i do live alone and am older, having my online 'friends' looking out for me makes me feel so good!

That is exactly what I was thinking as I read those "strange" posts - strokes can do this to you i.e. gobblygook typing. glad all is well.

 

[Nilesil]

Thank you. Very strange. It was not showing up on my posts under my account... so not sure if it was actually someone hacked in or just a WS mess up. Either way... its VERY nice to know that you and others pointed it out and made sure i was ok. Considering 2 of our members had strokes recently... and i do live alone and am older, having my online 'friends' looking out for me makes me feel so good!

 

[Nilesil]

Looking out for each other.

 

[Kakidoll]

Great information - do you recall when you docked at a port was the smoking side of the ship facing the dock or was it the non-smoking side? and was it every time do you know? I realize it's a lot to ask you to remember but I am very curious about which side of the ship faced the dock in San Juan.

The ship can dock on either side of the pier... so it can change week to week. Had they been on the other side, she would have gone into the water. I've looked at all the deck plans.... and though i've not been on that specific ship, its SO obvious where the windows are open and where they are not, and that it was NOT the childrens area as that area doesn't have windows around it... it was closer to pool/food where there are chairs/tables. Either way, SA HAD to pick child up, and no child could easily fall out of those windows. Ship should not and most likely WILL NOT make those windows unable to be opened. it get HOT HOT HOT and stuffy in those areas without windows open for a breeze. When it rains, for instance, the ship becomes a sauna in those areas. Ships are dangerous in general if you don't use your common sense.

 

[al66pine]

I do wonder why their criminal atty hadn’t told him to shut the heck up?

@justbreathe . I'm confused.
Q 1: Who does 'their' refer to?
Q 2: Who is the 'criminal atty?'
A few days after MSM started coverage, I saw a ref to an unnamed crim atty in San Juan, but nothing more after that.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

The ship can dock on either side of the pier... so it can change week to week. Had they been on the other side, she would have gone into the water. I've looked at all the deck plans.... and though i've not been on that specific ship, its SO obvious where the windows are open and where they are not, and that it was NOT the childrens area as that area doesn't have windows around it... it was closer to pool/food where there are chairs/tables. Either way, SA HAD to pick child up, and no child could easily fall out of those windows. Ship should not and most likely WILL NOT make those windows unable to be opened. it get HOT HOT HOT and stuffy in those areas without windows open for a breeze. When it rains, for instance, the ship becomes a sauna in those areas. Ships are dangerous in general if you don't use your common sense.

I was going to offer the same information. I haven't sailed out of San Juan for a long time and don't know what kind of terminals they currently have in that port. Most major cruise lines have their own terminals in ports from which they sail frequently, and most also have more than one berth if more than one of the line's vessels are in port simultaneously. Sometimes a ship backs into its berth while in other ports the ship will enter moving forward.