IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand

[katydid23]

It would be beneficial for jurors to actually see the children's water/play area and its proximity to the windows in question. I think a field trip to Freedom of the Seas if/when it's in port so the jury can experience the area first hand is in order

I agree. And the might even need a weekend cruise trip to reality get a feel for the ship.

 

[al66pine]

How is it possible this was "not an accident"?....

@Safeguard Hoping this explains how an accident can be a crime.
(Assuming the not-yet-public vids show Chloe being held outside the window or on the window frame)Hoping this makes more sense to you about Negligent Homicide law in PR.

PR statute is in black [facts of the case in green]
Any person [G’father] who causes [loses hold of Chloe] the death [impact on ground/dock] of another [Chloe] through negligence [holding Chloe outside the window/on the window frame, at a height of ~115 feet over the ground/dock onto which she would fall, if he lost his grip of her] shall incur a misdemeanor, but shall receive the penalty established for a fourth degree felony.

Or try reading this, same as above, adding {explanation in red}
Any person [G’father]
who causes [loses hold of Chloe] {losing grip caused fall, then deadly impact}
the death [impact on ground/dock] {impact on ground/dock caused the death}
of another [Chloe]
through negligence [holding Chloe outside the window/on window frame, at a height of ~115 feet over the ground/ dock onto which she would fall, if he lost his grip of her] {<<< negligence, i.e., he should have known better than to hold toddler 115 feet off the ground/dock. He showed disregard for her life by holding her at that height. If he had kept her well inside the ship, held her, say, 2 (two) inches off the floor, not the same disregard for her life.}
shall incur a misdemeanor,
but shall receive the penalty established for a fourth degree felony.

 

[Area52]

Great information - do you recall when you docked at a port was the smoking side of the ship facing the dock or was it the non-smoking side? and was it every time do you know? I realize it's a lot to ask you to remember but I am very curious about which side of the ship faced the dock in

Great information - do you recall when you docked at a port was the smoking side of the ship facing the dock or was it the non-smoking side? and was it every time do you know? I realize it's a lot to ask you to remember but I am very curious about which side of the ship faced the dock in San Juan.

. If you were facing the front if the ship, the dock would have been on the right side .The 11th deck has a smoking area on that side as well, and also one on deck 4 . That is also the area that has 3 pools and a few hot tubs.

 

[Safeguard]

It would be beneficial for jurors to actually see the children's water/play area and its proximity to the windows in question. I think a field trip to Freedom of the Seas if/when it's in port so the jury can experience the area first hand is in order

It might. That is unless whatever is on that video is the slam dunk I think it is.

I can't think of another reason why these lawers, and they have seen that footage by now no doubt, never once make mention of the video after having viewed it.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

It might. That is unless whatever is on that video is the slam dunk I think it is.

I can't think of another reason why these lawers, and they have seen that footage by now no doubt, never once make mention of the video after having viewed it.

I agree that surveillance video is probably damning. I have to wonder if Grandpa has told Chloe's parents and/or other family members who were on the ship with him the truth about really happened. Probably not, but I hope everyone learns the truth through the trial or SA's confession. I don't think Chloe's parents will be able to move on until they know exactly what happened when their little girl plunged to her death from a cruise ship window.

 

[Area52]

@oviedo
. If you were facing the front if the ship, the dock would have been on the right side .The 11th deck has a smoking area on that side as well, and also one on deck 4 . That is also the area that has 3 pools and a few hot tubs.

 

[they'll get you]

I've seen at least one photo of SA wearing glasses. I wonder if he had his glasses on at the time of Chloe's fall. I don't buy that he didn't know that the window was open, but it's possible that Grandpa wasn't able to discern this without glasses.

When the ship pulls into a busy/populated port there is noise and the hum of the city.

As he walked along the windows he would’ve heard mainly the sounds from the pool area on his left but when he walked up to the open window it’s the sounds from the city/dock you hear.
Surprisingly the noises from a busy city and populated dock do travel upwards to the ship.
When we are docked waiting in Sydney it’s surprising how loudly you hear the cars,horns, trains and the banging of the bob-cats loading up or unloading. Maybe because you are higher than the buildings that might muffle noise.

Just my observation.

 

[they'll get you]

It would also help to know which direction the wind blows on that dock/city as those windows actually funnel the wind and accentuates it either in or out. IYKWIM.

Sydney, for example, usually has a westerly and its that starboard side you feel the breeze coming in or otherwise you’d feel the breeze blowing out.

These things would show even a simpleton the window might be open. It appears Chloe sensed the danger. IMO.

 

[Montrealaise]

I agree. There's something seriously wrong with this man's thinking IMO, I can't get my head around why?
Maybe he had a cruel streak and possibly resented Chloe.

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." I'm certain that grandpa loved little Chloe, otherwise would the family defend him so vigorously? Although I must say that, since mom is a lawyer and dad is a police officer, they must know from a professional perspective that the prosecutor wouldn't be going ahead unless he certain he had enough evidence to secure a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt. Even though they are in denial, they must have some doubt about SA's insistence that he thought the window was closed.

 

[they'll get you]

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." I'm certain that grandpa loved little Chloe, otherwise would the family defend him so vigorously? Although I must say that, since mom is a lawyer and dad is a police officer, they must know from a professional perspective that the prosecutor wouldn't be going ahead unless he certain he had enough evidence to secure a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt. Even though they are in denial, they must have some doubt about SA's insistence that he thought the window was closed.

IF/WHEN they see the enhanced cctv.

 

[oviedo]

@oviedo
. If you were facing the front if the ship, the dock would have been on the right side .The 11th deck has a smoking area on that side as well, and also one on deck 4 . That is also the area that has 3 pools and a few hot tubs.

Thanks so much that’s what I was thinking

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." I'm certain that grandpa loved little Chloe, otherwise would the family defend him so vigorously? Although I must say that, since mom is a lawyer and dad is a police officer, they must know from a professional perspective that the prosecutor wouldn't be going ahead unless he certain he had enough evidence to secure a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt. Even though they are in denial, they must have some doubt about SA's insistence that he thought the window was closed.

I think the parents' denial is the reason that they did not want to see the surveillance video when it was offered to them while they were still in San Juan. At the time, they did not want to let on that they thought SA's reckless behavior led to the tragic death of their daughter. Now that there have been criminal charges filed against Grandpa, maybe her parents will realize that they really need to watch the video to see exactly what caused their daughter's untimely death.

 

[LietKynes]

Adding this as the video part way through shows a ship's employee (?) or a PR LE looking like he's demonstrating what observers may have witnessed.
He basically holds both his hands out the window and jiggles them up and down a bit-- then opens his hands, palms downward , Like he (SA) is playing a "whoopsie" game and let go.
May be nothing -- but the cameras should have caught this in detail.

Grandad 'had to be sedated' after dropping toddler 150ft to her death on cruise ship - Daily Star
"... According to the paper, after the incident the distraught grandfather kept muttering: “I thought it was like she was at a hockey game.” The revelation comes after local officials initially said Anello had been “dangling” the toddler out of the window and had lost his grip..."
emph. mine

This was interesting as I thought the lawyer initially brought up the hockey game reference and not SA ?

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Adding this as the video part way through shows a ship's employee (?) looking like he's demonstrating what oberservers may have witnessed.
He basically holds both his hands out the window and jiggles them up and down a bit-- then opens his hands, palms downward , Like he (SA) is playing a "whoopsie" game and let go.
May be nothing -- but the cameras should have caught this in detail.

Grandad 'had to be sedated' after dropping toddler 150ft to her death on cruise ship - Daily Star
"... According to the paper, after the incident the distraught grandfather kept muttering: “I thought it was like she was at a hockey game.” The revelation comes after local officials initially said Anello had been “dangling” the toddler out of the window and had lost his grip..."
emph. mine

[FONT=Open Sans, sans-serif] [/FONT] This was interesting as I thought the lawyer initially brought up the hockey game reference and not SA ?

I just find it jaw droppingly amazing that anyone could possess such an extreme lack of good judgement, especially concerning someone supposedly so near and dear to them.

 

[Safeguard]

Adding this as the video part way through shows a ship's employee (?) or a PR LE looking like he's demonstrating what observers may have witnessed.
He basically holds both his hands out the window and jiggles them up and down a bit-- then opens his hands, palms downward , Like he (SA) is playing a "whoopsie" game and let go.
May be nothing -- but the cameras should have caught this in detail.

Grandad 'had to be sedated' after dropping toddler 150ft to her death on cruise ship - Daily Star
"... According to the paper, after the incident the distraught grandfather kept muttering: “I thought it was like she was at a hockey game.” The revelation comes after local officials initially said Anello had been “dangling” the toddler out of the window and had lost his grip..."
emph. mine

This was interesting as I thought the lawyer initially brought up the hockey game reference and not SA ?

Thats exactly how I've been picturing it. Uhg!

 

[Safeguard]

Screenshot. Click to enlarge.
ugh. (again!)

So this is a still from the video LietKynes linked to. It shows officials in the exact window Chloe fell from, and it does indeed look like a reenactment of Grandpas actions. This is exactly what I think is on that ccv footage.

 

[LietKynes]

What a beautiful little girl ; sunbonnet and all !!

 

[MsMarple]

View attachment 213349
Screenshot. Click to enlarge.
ugh. (again!)

So this is a still from the video LietKynes linked to. It shows officials in the exact window Chloe fell from, and it does indeed look like a reenactment of Grandpas actions. This is exactly what I think is on that ccv footage.

If that's the case then it does look to me like LE believes the grandfather stood Chloe up on the railing. And that makes the most sense, that he was holding her as she stood on the railing, she leaned forward - the railing was about 6-8 inches from the glass - and instead of banging on the glass she went through, falling to her death.

So... if this scenario is plausible then we have to consider that the grandfather simply lost hold of Chloe as she went to bang on the window. What we don't yet know is whether or not he was aware that the window was open. If we are to believe him then we accept he believed it was closed. And that in turn asks the question of how could he not see that the window was open?

Also, I find it hard to believe that attorney Winkleman has not seen the video. If he has then I understand why he's doing his best to spin a story about banging on the glass at hockey games, grandfather thinking there was a closed window, etc. The best defense is a good offense...

MOO.

 

[MsMarple]

What a beautiful little girl ; sunbonnet and all !!

I know, it's so heartbreaking.

 

[al66pine]

Mom & Dad, Professions & Employers
MSM articles stated Dad is a law enforcement officer in an Indiana city, repeated here several times.

And MSM articles said Mom is an attorney. Where/how is she employed? Private law practice? Government? Corporate work? If her employer has been identified, I've missed it.

Anyone? TiA.