IN - Kimberly Camm, 35, & 2 children murdered, Georgetown, 28 Sept 2000 *2 earlier trials OVERTURNED

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
He didn't exactly get away with it; he did spend 13 yrs in state prison. And while that seems like nothing, it was (at least) something, if one is convinced of his guilt. And don't forget he still faces a civil lawsuit.

To try and put it in perspective, (again if you think he's guilty of the murders) it's certainly more 'justice' than the Brown/Goldman families got from OJ butchering their loved ones.

If you believe at all in Karma and the laws of the universe then no murderer ever truly 'gets away' with it. They may appear to in this life but that's only what we can see/perceive. I think the blight on a murderer's soul for such actions cause far more pain than we realize.

Thanks.
The Renns are taking legal action to prevent him getting the life insurance and hopefully will get some relief from their wrongful death lawsuit, just as the Goldman family did to OJ.
I live in the same county and there is a huge sense of disappointment and outrage at this verdict. It seems the only people who think he didn't do it are his family. The only Karma I sense so far is that it would be impossible for him to live anywhere in this area....
 
I think he has a lot more support than just his family, but murder cases are polarizing. There's what people believe and then there's what can be proved. And people generally go with their feelings, which happens on both sides.

This case isn't that clear-cut because there are many alibi witnesses, there's a person involved who is not inside the family and that person can't (or won't) be honest, but he's involved in some way, and the forensic evidence can be interpreted 2 different ways with dueling experts. What makes sense to some doesn't make sense to others. This is going to be one of those cases in which the truth will never really/definitively be known because one of the witnesses (and participants) cannot be believed and the truth cannot be discerned from lies.

Very frustrating.

It will forever remain a tragedy. Beliefs will always be split.

For me it comes down to this: did the 5 yr old daughter have blunt force trauma in/on her genitals or not? If yes she did then that has nothing to do with Boney and that would sway me more than the blood on DC's T-shirt. If the ME was wrong and there really was not any blunt force trauma and no sign of sexual assault then it's a muddier picture. And, did the little girl really tell someone (grandmother?) that she was hurt down there and 'daddy did it' or was that a story made up by someone later and it did not happen at all or did not happen that way? If there was abuse then that would lead me to conclude DC was involved in the murders.
 
And, did the little girl really tell someone (grandmother?) that she was hurt down there and 'daddy did it' or was that a story made up by someone later and it did not happen at all or did not happen that way? If there was abuse then that would lead me to conclude DC was involved in the murders.

I heard within days of the murders that Jill told her grandmother that "daddy did it" when she complained of her private area hurting. This was before there was any news reporting of the molestation, but I think it was after Camm was arrested.

If it was made up, it didn't take long for someone (Kim's mother and/or someone at Jill's dance class) to make it up.

Mrs. Renn says she mentioned to Kim that Jill was complaining. It is not that uncommon for parents to look the other way when they don't want to see what's going on right in front of them. Hence why Kim hadn't called a doctor yet. (I personally believe Kim was near calling a doctor, and that is one of the reasons Camm decided to act on the murders - he would be found out for molesting Jill.)

Also, I was talking with one of my friends over the weekend. She remembers Camm dropping his older daughter off at school practices in his patrol car. If their relationship was so bad before the murders, why was she even visiting with her dad? I thought by high school age, kids were allowed to decide for themselves if they wanted to visit with their parents.
 
Thanks.
The Renns are taking legal action to prevent him getting the life insurance and hopefully will get some relief from their wrongful death lawsuit, just as the Goldman family did to OJ.
I live in the same county and there is a huge sense of disappointment and outrage at this verdict. It seems the only people who think he didn't do it are his family. The only Karma I sense so far is that it would be impossible for him to live anywhere in this area....

I think his family will take him in. The one day back in 2005? that he had off, didn't he begin working for his dad/uncle, where he had worked before the murders? I'm guessing that's what he'll do again.
 
Of course his family will take him in. He has no way to support his new life yet. He will though, through family, friends, and supporters who will likely give him $$$.

I'd guess most men in his socio segment and situation have supporters. Betcha he has women lining up to help him ( aka "the brisket brigade" ) -- heck he'll be seen as an eligible/single man to some.
 
Of course his family will take him in. He has no way to support his new life yet. He will though, through family, friends, and supporters who will likely give him $$$.

I'd guess most men in his socio segment and situation have supporters. Betcha he has women lining up to help him ( aka "the brisket brigade" ) -- heck he'll be seen as an eligible/single man to some.

Afraid so. If OJ can get girlfriends who could ignore the fact he killed two people I'm sure David Camm will...
 
I'm coming in at this case not knowing anything about it until today. I read Camm's account and I read Boney's testimony. Also read about various pieces of physical evidence and the debate between "experts".
First, we all know that if Camm didn't have financial support, wasn't previously a State Trooper, etc... he would still be rotting in prison.
Rarely does the average person have the chance at 3 Trials to get out... how many convicted felons do you think would be in Prison if they all were able to do that?
It cost a lot of money to do that.
My first impression of Camm is that he is sociopathic and there is something going on with him. My impression of Boney is that he is a liar, and obviously a criminal. These are things however that Camm may have counted on. For example if Camm hired Boney to do the hit and stage it as a surprise during a burglary, he may also have figured that if Boney screwed it up, he would go down as the patsy. A State Trooper is smart enough to know how higher eschelon criminals use others for their dirty work and assume the risks.

The key for me is if there could be any connection proven between the 2 men.
Boney said he was there to sell Camm a gun. So, how did he meet Camm? Any record of phone calls? Camm should have been smart enough to try to prevent any possible connection that could be traced. But maybe he wasn't. What I haven't seen is Boney's explanation of how he met or knows Camm. I don't believe for a moment that Boney was there to sell a gun. But something tells me these guys did know each other and that there is a connection. If that can be proven, then Camm is more guilty than Boney, because he would have planned everything. Any provable connection and Camm is guilty.

I found out about this case because of government officials complaining about the COST of the case. So, should we stop at justice now that Camm is out and Boney is in? Boney doesn't have the financial backers to get 3 trials, he's black, he's a criminal, and so who cares right?

Another compelling thing is the "timing" of events.
Boney claims to show up right when Camm is supposedly at Basketball.
Not having followed this case, it seems that if Camm has an iron clad alibi for being at basketball at 7:00 then Boney must be lying about Camm being there.
But... he still could have been working for Camm and Camm may have let him in.
Shortly after that Boney said the family came home and into the Garage.
Then he says Camm shot them.
Witnesses hearing shots place them some 2 hours later when Camm could have been home.
For me this is a huge time gap. Forensic experts and the coroner should be able to determine if these people were shot at 7ish vs. 9ish. Not that it helps point the finger.

I see 3 very similar scenarios all involving both Camm and Boney:

Camm knows of Boney, approaches him and offers him a substantial amount of cash to help him carry out the crime based on Life Insurance.

Scenario 1: Camm lets Boney into his Garage / Home prior to 7:00.
The wife and children come home as Boney describes. Camm shoots them as Boney describes. Camm then goes to basketball so he will have what he thinks to be a clear alibi.
Boney would be here to make the crime look like a burglary, etc... so that when Camm comes back 2 hrs later he can come home and appear all surprised and call 911.
My problem with this scenario is neighbor hearing shots 9ish instead of 7ish.

Scenario 2: Same as #1 except Boney does the shooting while Camm is gone.

Senario 3:
Boney keeps toying with them in the car for up to 2 hrs before shooting them.
 
I'm not familiar with all the details...did someone hear shots fired and was that around 9 PM or closer to 7pm/7:30pm?
 
I'm coming in at this case not knowing anything about it until today. I read Camm's account and I read Boney's testimony. Also read about various pieces of physical evidence and the debate between "experts".
First, we all know that if Camm didn't have financial support, wasn't previously a State Trooper, etc... he would still be rotting in prison.
Rarely does the average person have the chance at 3 Trials to get out... how many convicted felons do you think would be in Prison if they all were able to do that?
It cost a lot of money to do that.
My first impression of Camm is that he is sociopathic and there is something going on with him. My impression of Boney is that he is a liar, and obviously a criminal. These are things however that Camm may have counted on. For example if Camm hired Boney to do the hit and stage it as a surprise during a burglary, he may also have figured that if Boney screwed it up, he would go down as the patsy. A State Trooper is smart enough to know how higher eschelon criminals use others for their dirty work and assume the risks.

The key for me is if there could be any connection proven between the 2 men.
Boney said he was there to sell Camm a gun. So, how did he meet Camm? Any record of phone calls? Camm should have been smart enough to try to prevent any possible connection that could be traced. But maybe he wasn't. What I haven't seen is Boney's explanation of how he met or knows Camm. I don't believe for a moment that Boney was there to sell a gun. But something tells me these guys did know each other and that there is a connection. If that can be proven, then Camm is more guilty than Boney, because he would have planned everything. Any provable connection and Camm is guilty.

I found out about this case because of government officials complaining about the COST of the case. So, should we stop at justice now that Camm is out and Boney is in? Boney doesn't have the financial backers to get 3 trials, he's black, he's a criminal, and so who cares right?

Another compelling thing is the "timing" of events.
Boney claims to show up right when Camm is supposedly at Basketball.
Not having followed this case, it seems that if Camm has an iron clad alibi for being at basketball at 7:00 then Boney must be lying about Camm being there.
But... he still could have been working for Camm and Camm may have let him in.
Shortly after that Boney said the family came home and into the Garage.
Then he says Camm shot them.
Witnesses hearing shots place them some 2 hours later when Camm could have been home.
For me this is a huge time gap. Forensic experts and the coroner should be able to determine if these people were shot at 7ish vs. 9ish. Not that it helps point the finger.

I see 3 very similar scenarios all involving both Camm and Boney:

Camm knows of Boney, approaches him and offers him a substantial amount of cash to help him carry out the crime based on Life Insurance.

Scenario 1: Camm lets Boney into his Garage / Home prior to 7:00.
The wife and children come home as Boney describes. Camm shoots them as Boney describes. Camm then goes to basketball so he will have what he thinks to be a clear alibi.
Boney would be here to make the crime look like a burglary, etc... so that when Camm comes back 2 hrs later he can come home and appear all surprised and call 911.
My problem with this scenario is neighbor hearing shots 9ish instead of 7ish.

Scenario 2: Same as #1 except Boney does the shooting while Camm is gone.

Senario 3:
Boney keeps toying with them in the car for up to 2 hrs before shooting them.

Boney has said they met playing basketball. If I am remembering correctly, they also went to the same high school for a time? (Could be wrong about that! But I'm remembering some connection to New Albany High School.) Though, Boney's girlfriend said she never knew Boney to own a pair of sneakers... I do believe that Camm was counting on Boney being a bumbling idiot. In early police interviews, Camm kept insisting that police test the backbone (Boney's) sweatshirt found at the scene. He was fixated on it. Honestly, my husband wouldn't know whether half the clothes in this house belonged here or not. I think Camm figured they would run dna on the sweatshirt, find Boney, and be done with it. But that didn't happen...

Kim and the kids were supposed to have arrived home around 7:30. That time fits with when she and the kids left Brad's practice after talking to another parent in the parking lot and taking into account her time to drive home. Supposedly, she told the other parent they were going home to meet David. (Which, if true, is odd, because it was routine for Camm to play basketball on Thursday night, so why would Kim say they were meeting him if she knew he would be at basketball until after 9pm?)

I read one theory on another board (can't remember where) that maybe Boney picked Camm up from the church gym. That way, Camm knew his truck would be there the entire time, no one would see it on the road, and no one would notice it missing from the church parking lot. (Obviously, there is no evidence of that, just someone's theory.)

(I do believe Camm was there when the murders happened.)

No one has mentioned the Camm's dog. Supposedly, it roamed freely through the neighborhood most of the time. I can understand the dog not being there (and barking) when the murders occurred if it was out roaming. However, wouldn't the smell of blood brought it home? Dogs are attracted to blood and can smell it from far, far away. The dog was there after the cops arrived, because they were concerned with the dog messing up the crime scene. So, where was the dog for over 1.5 hours?? (I believe locked in the house and only let out after Camm arrived home.)

I don't remember hearing anything about witnesses hearing shots around 9pm. The way in which the blood was already separating and drying proves to me that the shootings were done earlier than when Camm arrived home after playing ball. They lived kind of in the country. It's not that unusual to hear gunshots in the area from hunters or rednecks.

The crime scene didn't look like a burglary though, not even a staged one. There is no proof that Boney was ever in the house, and it was locked when Camm arrived home. Camm said that even though all the doors were locked, they never locked their doors (not unusual - I know of other people in that area who never lock their doors either). However, Boney's fingerprints weren't on the door locks, yet they were on the side of the Bronco. Was he wearing gloves and then took them off? Why did he go into the house if it wasn't for a robbery? One thing that is odd is that Camm smeared Jill's blood on the door leading from the garage into the house, even though he said he never touched Jill and only touched Brad. (The blood on the door hadn't dried yet when police arrived, so Boney couldn't have done it.)

I saw a local news interview of one of the jurors from Boney's trial. She was the youngest juror and the last holdout to find Boney guilty. She said that all twelve of Boney's jurors also believed that Camm was guilty too. She was being interview because she was furious over Camm's not-guilty verdict. So, 36 jurors believe Camm guilty and only 12 have believe him innocent.

Sorry if my thoughts were rambling!
 
Thanks for posting the article.

I do find it interesting that Boney was said to be into stealing women's shoes and that was given by Camm supporters as one reason he attacked Kim. And yet, he didn't steal her shoes! Mission not accomplished!

I don't think this is a case of this one guy just targeting this family; I saw suggestions but did not see any evidence of this.

- They were no longer a "cop's family" since Camm had left the force some months before.
- Camm wasn't involved in any legal/criminal action against Boney, so no reason for revenge.
- It wasn't a crime committed for Kim's shoes since her shoes weren't even taken and there was nothing stopping Boney from taking them.
- There was no reason to murder 2 little kids. The kids were still in their seats, for goodness sakes, they offered no resistance or risk to an intruder, be it Boney or anyone else.

No, this was a hit, it was intended, and it not random. Someone specifically waited for that family in the garage and specifically murdered them as they arrived home. Boney was involved because someone made it a point to involve him, whether he was hired to do it or was there because he was supplying/selling a gun, or was doing a favor. If Boney harmed anyone in that family that makes him guilty. If Boney was (merely) selling a weapon and had any knowledge of an intended use of that weapon, he's also guilty.

Now about the blood transfer: allegedly Camm got blood drops on his Tshirt because he "leaned over his daughter to reach his son." First of all, why didn't he get his daughter out of the car first? She was doubled over; how did he know she was deceased? Why reach for his son (first)? He said he wanted to do CPR on his son -- was his son still alive when found? If no, how long did the son live from the time he sustained those injuries?

Second, supposedly the amount of time between murder and Camm finding his family was approximately 90 to 120 min. The defense pointed to the coagulating stream of blood coming from the garage as proof the murders happened in the 7:30pm - 7:45pm time frame. Those tiny blood drops on the tips/top surface of the daughter's hair, far less in volume than the stream of blood coming from the garage, would also have coagulated in that same 90 to 120 min.

The defense had an expert who used fresh blood to show how little dots of blood could have been transferred to Camm's T-shirt, making it appear like high velocity impact spatter. But the expert didn't replicate the conditions at the scene, namely waiting 90 to 120 min. before attempting this transfer experiment. Would the blood drops have been dried in that time and thus not caused transfer to the T-shirt? Never saw any particular mention of this or heard about any experiment conducted that took the elapsed time into consideration.

The M.E.'s report claims blunt force trauma of the little girl's genitals and the M.E. said (on camera during 48 Hrs) there's nothing she has been presented with that explains those injuries other than the obvious (molestation). The injuries occurred sometime in the preceding 24 hours. Those injuries have nothing to do with Boney. The judge in the 3rd trial precluded this evidence, but that doesn't erase the evidence altogether--something or someone injured that 5 yr old child and the state of her body is evidence.

The criminal case is now over but there's still a civil case with a lower standard of proof. While it won't bring justice for their loss (and really, nothing can), it is understandable that the Renn family would want to pursue whatever legal recourse they have; it's all they have left.
 
Now about the blood transfer: allegedly Camm got blood drops on his Tshirt because he "leaned over his daughter to reach his son." First of all, why didn't he get his daughter out of the car first? She was doubled over; how did he know she was deceased? Why reach for his son (first)? He said he wanted to do CPR on his son -- was his son still alive when found? If no, how long did the son live from the time he sustained those injuries?

Second, supposedly the amount of time between murder and Camm finding his family was approximately 90 to 120 min. The defense pointed to the coagulating stream of blood coming from the garage as proof the murders happened in the 7:30pm - 7:45pm time frame. Those tiny blood drops on the tips/top surface of the daughter's hair, far less in volume than the stream of blood coming from the garage, would also have coagulated in that same 90 to 120 min.

The defense had an expert who used fresh blood to show how little dots of blood could have been transferred to Camm's T-shirt, making it appear like high velocity impact spatter. But the expert didn't replicate the conditions at the scene, namely waiting 90 to 120 min. before attempting this transfer experiment. Would the blood drops have been dried in that time and thus not caused transfer to the T-shirt? Never saw any particular mention of this or heard about any experiment conducted that took the elapsed time into consideration.

Yes - it is that blood that makes believe that Camm was physically present in the garage when Jill was shot.

Jill's blood, especially such small droplets of it on her hair, would have already been been drying. It would have taken some pressure to break through the drier top layer to transfer it to Camm's shirt. Yet, would Jill's hair have give to it, making it almost impossible for the kind of pressure needed to transfer drying blood???

(I personally believe that Camm had a jacket and pants on over his basketball clothes. That small section of his shirt happened to be hanging out when Jill was shot.)

Also, supposedly, there have been different stories from Camm as to just how he removed Brad from the car. It was only 2 doors. Camm at first said he pulled Brad over the front driver's seat (so out the driver's side door). It wasn't until after the Jill's blood on his shirt became knowledge that Camm said he reached over Jill from the passenger side to get to Brad. There is one crime scene photo where the lower half of Kim's body can be seen on the floor of the garage with the Bronco passenger door opened. It does not appear that the front passenger seat is leaned forward. Wouldn't Camm have done that to get to Brad? OR did he kneel on the front passenger seat and go in between the front seats to get to him - and if that's the case, how would he have touched Jill's hair at all?

Something else to ponder: When Camm was interviewed soon after the murders, he was asking the murderer to just come forward while crying. If it were me, and my family had just been murdered, I wouldn't be asking the murderer to turn himself in, I would be growling and threatening that I WOULD FIND HIM (think Liam Neeson in "Taken").
 
I wish I had followed this case from the beginning as it's an interesting one. I'm not aware of all the evidence including statements, interviews, chronology, etc. I know there are a lot of Camm supporters and I've read things in which supporters say, "I've never believed he could do such a thing..."

Well I neither believe nor disbelieve David Camm and have no personal bias in any direction in this case. I'm interested in the evidence.

We know Boney was in contact with the vehicle at some point; we know he left his hand print on the Bronco (though we don't know exactly when that occurred), and we know he admits to some kind of involvement, but what his involvement was is hard to discern since he's made contradictory statements. The scribbled-out part of his written statement in which he claimed to be approached by Camm is intriguing, partly because he attempted to keep investigators from learning about that (why go to the trouble to write about it then scribble it out?). He's an enigma and at this point whatever the truth is has been buried under his many lies. I can't discern what the real truth is where he's concerned. That said, I haven't seen evidence of him having some kind of vendetta against the family. Why them? Why the little kids? What was the motive? How did Boney benefit from killing this woman and 2 little kids? This is not a random act of violence, there's nothing random about it.

There was some staging of the crime scene. And a scene that has been staged points not to a random person unconnected with the victims. A random killer has no reason to 'stage' a crime scene. Staging is done to make the scene look like something else, rather than what it is, or to alter or obscure evidence. A random killer would not care about that -- they kill, they leave.

There's enough evidence (brass shavings, blood drop/spatter, some kind of blunt force injury to daughter's genitals) to suspect involvement by a primary family member; someone had a reason and a need to kill a woman and 2 little kids, and specifically kill that woman and those 2 kids at their home. This doesn't appear to be a robbery, the wife and kids were confronted directly in the garage as they arrived home, on purpose; they weren't killed while out and about (i.e. doing random things). A hit. An execution. A purposeful confrontation and a purposeful murder of all 3. There is physical contact between victims and the remaining family member with evidence that proves contact. I can see why suspicions were raised--it's because it is suspicious.
 
Yes - it is that blood that makes believe that Camm was physically present in the garage when Jill was shot.

Jill's blood, especially such small droplets of it on her hair, would have already been been drying. It would have taken some pressure to break through the drier top layer to transfer it to Camm's shirt. Yet, would Jill's hair have give to it, making it almost impossible for the kind of pressure needed to transfer drying blood???

(I personally believe that Camm had a jacket and pants on over his basketball clothes. That small section of his shirt happened to be hanging out when Jill was shot.)

Also, supposedly, there have been different stories from Camm as to just how he removed Brad from the car. It was only 2 doors. Camm at first said he pulled Brad over the front driver's seat (so out the driver's side door). It wasn't until after the Jill's blood on his shirt became knowledge that Camm said he reached over Jill from the passenger side to get to Brad. There is one crime scene photo where the lower half of Kim's body can be seen on the floor of the garage with the Bronco passenger door opened. It does not appear that the front passenger seat is leaned forward. Wouldn't Camm have done that to get to Brad? OR did he kneel on the front passenger seat and go in between the front seats to get to him - and if that's the case, how would he have touched Jill's hair at all?

Something else to ponder: When Camm was interviewed soon after the murders, he was asking the murderer to just come forward while crying. If it were me, and my family had just been murdered, I wouldn't be asking the murderer to turn himself in, I would be growling and threatening that I WOULD FIND HIM (think Liam Neeson in "Taken").

Yes, that appearance was stomach churning wasn't it. Trying sooo hard to squeeze a tear out.

Do these actions sound like a man trying to find the killer of his family?
http://www.wave3.com/global/Story.asp?s=4390335
 
This case is on 48 hours Saturday night 10 pm EST

Reminds me some of the Knox case where they try to get her and her boyfriend, then DNA evidence turns up on a third party and they try to make the story fit. But this case has tons more evidence and much more motive than Amanda Knox.
 
The Camm case is nothing like the Knox/Solecito case, IMO. I mean yes there was a bloody crime scene in both cases but that's about it.
 
The Camm case is nothing like the Knox/Solecito case, IMO. I mean yes there was a bloody crime scene in both cases but that's about it.

Both cases involve the prosecutor focusing on an initial obvious suspect. Then DNA evidence later turns up evidence of a third party whose involvement in the crime is pretty clear cut - he should not have been there. Then, they try to make it fit by alleging some sort of conspiracy or relationship between the third party and the initial suspect with there being little clear evidence of the pre-existing relationship between the third party and obvious suspect. Both cases also appear to involve an over zealous prosecutor (at least in some aspect, though the knox one is in a different way).

This case has alot more evidence than AK because this case has motive, and has stronger evidence linking the obvious suspect (husband ) to the crime. .i don't know enough about this case to know whether the prosecutor here alleged a better pre existing relationship between the third party and the husband, but it seems like they do not have much of a linkage between the two men and how they knew each other.
 
I watched 48 hours, why do people possibly believe the husband is guilty? At best the blood splatter evidence is disputed, so that raises reasonable doubt. But you would not need to get to that anywhere if it was a given that the murder occurred before 9 (which was assumed not to be contested in the 48 hours show) and you believed he was at the basketball. Plus you have a murderer whose DNA is all over. Why get the husband involved in this at all?

It seems like this is a case where initially police have a point of view and then just blatantly ignore exculpatory evidence. And it seems like the cheating and sex abuse stuff inflamed local opinion against him so opinions on him are based more on that rather than on evidence of murder.
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
160
Guests online
1,619
Total visitors
1,779

Forum statistics

Threads
606,721
Messages
18,209,542
Members
233,943
Latest member
FindIreneFlemingWAState
Back
Top