Found Deceased IN - Kyran Holland, 1, Kyannah Holland, 2, Kyle Moorman II, 5, & dad, Kyle Moorman, 27, Indianapolis, 6 Jul 2022

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samaor said:
Sloan Ditch, where the tire tracks were found, is a different pond from where Kyle and the kids were found. IMO, they were found to be unrelated.
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This is correct. Those tire tracks were located at a place where Kyle was not found with his children; however, we don't know for sure whether Kyle drove along that path or not before he settled on the place where the black Saab sank. I saw photos of his car; wasn't surprised he's in a car club because we typically race these fast cars. His black Saab was shiny and looked nice as I remember them. It is the location of the blue fishing pole on the path that's sig.

So, it is possible, because the tire tracks may have been fresh, that Kyle drove along the street behind the church to Sloan Ditch and had the front tires near the water so he could use his headlights to shine into the water in order to see fish. Then, perhaps, he decided, for one reason or another, to move and Kyle relocated his fishing spot to the pond where his Saab actually did sink. How far out into the pond did the car travel?

Did the car, with the three Holland's inside it, just slowly roll down the ramp and into the water? And, Kyle went tumbling in after them? But, why was Kyle the only one not inside of the car? So dreadful to drown. I think of the two youngest ones strapped into their car seats. Tightly?

Surely they raged against the dying of the night. People know when they are drowning. We respond with fight reactions, flight responses, or some'll freeze. Hold your breath so you'll pass out and never take another breath. I had a near drowning experience in the Pacific once that was close enough. Search for the light. Nothing matters but finding air. What if you're asleep and the water encroaches and overtakes and you're strapped into a car seat?

Blessings to the families for this is a massive, terrible tragedy.
 
IceIce9 said:
I think it is “buyer beware” when it comes to purchasing a used car. There is no requirement for vehicles to be mechanically inspected by either buyer or seller. At least in Indiana, that is. Sellers do not have to disclose known defects.

rsbm Cars sold at the auctions are always sold “as is.”

With a vehicle that old there could be numerous defects.

As I mentioned previously, many Saabs of that year had manual transmissions. It is much easier to have a vehicle with a stick shift roll. If you accidentally leave it in gear, or the parking brake fails when it is in neutral, or you forget to put on the parking brake. Speaking from experience here, as I have owned several sports cars with manual transmissions.

I realize that some of the scenarios are unlikely. Just trying to think of every possibility that could have happened in this situation.
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rsbm

Yes, it is a buyer beware market when selling/buying used vehicles. <modsnip>

It seems unlikely Kyle would have purchased a used car, esp one carrying the name Saab, without knowing something about it first. It may not be his first Saab. It's just his last Saab. A sweet Grandma is less likely to buy a used Saab than a used Toyota so Kyle putting hard earned cash toward the Saab was an investment for him, I suppose.

You'e correct about auto vs manual transmissions. One may not appreciate the power and confidence there is in driving a Saab, or a Porche, or the like, if one is not accustomed to using clutch standard shift mechanisms. Otherwise, knowing how to shift is part of the fun as they are a dream to drive when in good working condition, of course. My friend charges his Jaguar so the world has changed since the 2007 Saab.

This Saab was sabotaged by the donut tire. Kyle had to be careful maneuvering it at high speeds, anything over 35mph and going around sharp curves. Donuts are not meant to go long distances. The donut tire may have caused this accident/incident. Is that possible?
 
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DeDee said:
rsbm

Yes, it is a buyer beware market when selling/buying used vehicles. Who trusts a car salesman? j/k if you're a car salesman. Bring home the bacon, it's fine.

It seems unlikely Kyle would have purchased a used car, esp one carrying the name Saab, without knowing something about it first. It may not be his first Saab. It's just his last Saab. A sweet Grandma is less likely to buy a used Saab than a used Toyota so Kyle putting hard earned cash toward the Saab was an investment for him, I suppose.

You'e correct about auto vs manual transmissions. One may not appreciate the power and confidence there is in driving a Saab, or a Porche, or the like, if one is not accustomed to using clutch standard shift mechanisms. Otherwise, knowing how to shift is part of the fun as they are a dream to drive when in good working condition, of course. My friend charges his Jaguar so the world has changed since the 2007 Saab.

This Saab was sabotaged by the donut tire. Kyle had to be careful maneuvering it at high speeds, anything over 35mph and going around sharp curves. Donuts are not meant to go long distances. The donut tire may have caused this accident/incident. Is that possible?
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"The donut tire may have caused this accident/incident. Is that possible?"

There has been discussion upthread about this possibility. Apparently, the donuts are very slick, and don't get much traction. If the car was parked on an incline on smooth concrete, could it have begun sliding because of the slippery donut tire?
 
  1. Beware that your traction and stability control systems won't be working properly.
  2. Make sure the tire pressure is where it needs to be.


How Fast Can You Drive on a Donut Tire? - Valley Honda​



Another thing to remember when driving on a donut tire is that the electronic stability control and traction control systems will not function properly. Both systems will work after a regular-sized tire is installed on the vehicle, and you can normally drive again.

If it's at all possible, do not drive more than 70 or so miles on your donut. Its smaller size will cause excess wear on wheel bearings, brakes, and transmission gears. There's also a much higher chance of a blowout or tire damage because of the spare's lightweight design.

====================================
SO THE TRACTION CONTROL SYSTEM DOES NOT WORK WHILE DONUT IS ON THE CAR?

AND NEITHER DOES THE STABILITY CONTROL?
 
MysteriousNoblewoman said:
Someone told me that in Indiana, a murder suicide situation is not something that is told to the public when it happens in a family. Can anyone confirm or deny that?
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I have a friend that frequently forwards inaccurate information. I have asked her to please investigate/confirm/google before she repeats/reposts statements that could just be rumors.

​

Supreme Court: Causes of death are public record - IndyStar​

"County records that list a cause of death are open to the public, the Indiana Supreme Court ruled Tuesday. In a unanimous decision, the court said death certificates maintained by county health departments are subject to the Access to Public Records Act and are not covered by any exemptions.Oct 8, 2014"

​

 
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I would suggest that anyone reading this, when you can, go out and get yourself a full size spare. I have one and it is tons better than driving on a donut, if the situation presents itself. I, personally, have always been wary of driving on that itty bitty thing.
 
I don't think the temporary spare tire has anything to do with this if it was an accident. In my opinion, if the car was spinning (trying to get traction to back away from the water) or sliding (towards the water even if the brakes were applied) the donut tire would have left skid marks. None were observed on the pavement that we've heard about. Therefore I do not believe the spare tire contributed in any way to what happened.
If it is indeed an accident, something else caused it IMO.
 
IceIce9 said:
That is incorrect.
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I live in MN, not IN, but for what it's worth we have a similar unwritten "rule" in the twin cities.... If a death is caused by suicide it's not *publicised* on the news, in newspapers, or other official media. I believe it's so any attention seekers don't decide to copycat. However, cause of death on death certificates and other official documents are always publicly available.

ETA: I think something similar to this is what the first commenter may have been thinking of.
 
RaspberryMama said:
I live in MN, not IN, but for what it's worth we have a similar unwritten "rule" in the twin cities.... If a death is caused by suicide it's not *publicised* on the news, in newspapers, or other official media. I believe it's so any attention seekers don't decide to copycat. However, cause of death on death certificates and other official documents are always publicly available.

ETA: I think something similar to this is what the first commenter may have been thinking of.
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The op specified "murder-suicide" within a family. I don't believe there is an unwritten rule in either state as the news sources would not back off on publishing something newsworthy due to the subject matter, and the police publicly brief the press/media. Not publicizing suicides is usually for teenage victims, which has been shown to trigger/affect their peers.
#ABCNews #Minnesota

Minnesota family of 4 found dead in apparent murder-suicide l ABC News​

 
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