IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #10

[jjenny]

I can't answer that. I don't know what fuels their decision to release certain information and kept other info private.

Whether they believe it actually happened or not?

 

[bx2]

How is it possible with the existing timeline? Even LE said it doesn't fit.

How is it possible? You're killing me I just posted above how it could be possible with the existing timeline.

 

[porchpile]

How is it possible with the existing timeline? Even LE said it doesn't fit.

No, they said they have nothing to corroborate it. We're talking about a 5 minute detour from 5 North. LS is still at 5 North in time to make the (alleged) phone call and leave at 4:30.

 

[bunnyesq.]

As I've said before, 10th & College is a stone's throw from 5 North (and downhill, no lesss). She could have been partying at 5 North (in the street even, who knows--maybe it was an official after hours party), saw a buddy (AA?) walking up the street, ran down to say hi, got slung over mystery man's shoulder, then walked back up to 5 North. These college parties spill out into the streets.

I don't necessarily believe in the 3:38 sighting, but it's completey plausible with the existing timeling, imo.

Thanks! I was just about to search the thread for your previous post to make this exact point.

It's plausible.

 

[Rhyme & Reason]

I would like to get an attorneys view on what is needed for LE to get search warrants on items from POIs who are heavily guarded by their huge name defense lawyers..

What LE have to have in order to have a SW granted to see JR's car, phone, bank history, etc, etc..

I would like to get a professionals opinion of what it would take in order to have such sw's issued??

Because I fear until then we could possibly be at A standstill..

Has anyone asked member AZlawyer? I know she's pretty busy on the Caylee Anthony thread however, maybe she could pop over here & answer your questions.

ETA: I'm way behind here, so I apologize if this has already been discussed!

 

[Gabby66]

There are, potentially, many conflicts of interest at play here. A lot of different factors go into determining this, certain conflicts can be waived, etc. I would say that it's not a problem right now, as long as the situation you described doesn't occur. It could be a problem in the future though.

Thanks. That's what I meant though - the future. If I were a POI I guess I wouldn't want to have to take a chance that I'd possibly have to switch attorneys. That just seems stupid. However, perhaps he's pretty certain that the other guy (can't even remember his name/initials now, sorry) is innocent and that it wouldn't be an issue. That may be something interesting - if he's CERTAIN that one person is not involved.

 

[jennana]

I'm just gonna put this out there as it is something that has been, albeit in the back of mind for some time now.. And since the length of how long several of the players knew each other is being discussed intermittently throughout these last few pages...

Does anyone else find it not really adding up for them that according to HT they had just met CR/MB thru JR at the Indy 500 which actually wasn't 2 weeks prior as reported but rather only 3-4days prior on May 29th..

Yet, again according to HT Lauren was very familiar with and in hanging out at and with JR.. As HT had known him for quite some time and Lauren therefor knew Jay thru HT.. As well as adding that infact in the past year her and Lauren hung out with and at Jay's apt( her reasoning for telling this was that nothing unusual and that LSvwould be perfectly comfortable walking to 5 North Townhomes as this is somewhere they regularly hung out..)

So in all of that hanging out over a years time they had never known or partied with his neighbor 2 doors down CR/MB just as they all did that night before LS heading to Kilroy's with CR..

Just another strange, odd, not really adding up statement from HT..

Anyone?

Good point, and I agree that it sounds very strange.

 

[bunnyesq.]

Whether they believe it actually happened or not?

LE admitted they have theories. Some of those theories are similar to what we discuss here, like JR was involved, or JW, or a random stranger. Have they released specific information on any of these theories? No. Have they acted on any of these theories, as in, following up on leads? We don't know.

 

[rlc]

So the stranger stops her, slings her around over his shoulders and walks for a bit, and then puts her down, leaves, and then her head clears and she walks on to JR's?
I don't know. It doesn't seem that plausible to me? But, I suppose none of us have the knowledge to say definitively either way. I still vote that the bartender saw someone else or even saw someone else on a different day. I teach some college classes and, to be honest, Lauren looks like all of my students. They are all cute, small, and blonde. I can see how that would happen especially when there is a high profile case like this.

Well, I think drunk people look even more drunk than they are to sober people, at times. I have seen people get drunk enough to stumble, look like they may pass out, then straighten up and return to the party. Especially if they are tired and drunk. It's possible that LS gave the stranger JR's address, that she went there of her own accord, or even that the guy had seen her come in or out of JR's apartment before, and took her there if she was not entirely conscious/alert. For all we know, the stranger is not even a stranger and had been at JR's apartment, but if he did something to LS, JR may still be cognizant of his own role in that, and would be willing to cover for him.

Can one of the posters more knowledgeable about cocaine address what would happen if someone drunk enough to be stumbling went back upstairs and had some coke? Would it perk her back up enough for her to walk out of there of her own accord?

 

[elmomom]

I do not know the answer to this but I can give you a feasible scenario. Let's assume the witness is correct, just off on the time or place. First of all what don't know is more than what we do about this encounter. Like, was anyone else there (like JR?) Was he just inside an apartment for a moment in the vicinity? Let's for this scenario say that JR was there as well. Or around the vicinity. Maybe LS/JR took a stroll to another building to make a transaction. So now you have LS, JR and the Mystery man all around the same vicinity of LS. LS is clearly incapacitated. The two people escort her back to JRs and she does not get better. And in fact she gets worse, much worse. And we all know the rest of the theory - she really doesn't walk out of JRs on her own volition.

And it would add a 2nd player to the JR removing LS with help later on at 4:30 scenario

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

Does anyone else find it not really adding up for them that according to HT they had just met CR/MB thru JR at the Indy 500 which actually wasn't 2 weeks prior as reported but rather only 3-4days prior on May 29th..

I addressed this 2 or 3 pages back - it was 2 weeks prior to the statement to the media, in mid-June, and 3-4 days prior to the events. There is no inconsistency there whatsoever.

 

[bunnyesq.]

Thanks. That's what I meant though - the future. If I were a POI I guess I wouldn't want to have to take a chance that I'd possibly have to switch attorneys. That just seems stupid. However, perhaps he's pretty certain that the other guy (can't even remember his name/initials now, sorry) is innocent and that it wouldn't be an issue. That may be something interesting - if he's CERTAIN that one person is not involved.

I guess I was looking at it from the attorney point of view - he probably doesn't have any ethics/conflicts issues at this juncture. However, if he were to represent MB at a trial, no doubt DR would be involved in some capacity (like a witness). That could definitely be a huge problem.

 

[cluciano63]

Why does it matter WHAT LS was doing at 3:38AM?
She was with JR dialing phones at 4:15AM and then leaving his place at 4:30AM...per him. No way he would want to put her in his house that late if she wasn't there. Unless of course HE carried her back to his house at 3:38AM, or had his friend do it.

 

[jjenny]

LE admitted they have theories. Some of those theories are similar to what we discuss here, like JR was involved, or JW, or a random stranger. Have they released specific information on any of these theories? No. Have they acted on any of these theories, as in, following up on leads? We don't know.

At this point, I think it's a very safe bet these theories don't include the "mystery man."

 

[mamamia54]

Well, I think drunk people look even more drunk than they are to sober people, at times. I have seen people get drunk enough to stumble, look like they may pass out, then straighten up and return to the party. Especially if they are tired and drunk. It's possible that LS gave the stranger JR's address, that she went there of her own accord, or even that the guy had seen her come in or out of JR's apartment before, and took her there if she was not entirely conscious/alert. For all we know, the stranger is not even a stranger and had been at JR's apartment, but if he did something to LS, JR may still be cognizant of his own role in that, and would be willing to cover for him.

Can one of the posters more knowledgeable about cocaine address what would happen if someone drunk enough to be stumbling went back upstairs and had some coke? Would it perk her back up enough for her to walk out of there of her own accord?

I knew a person who normally got drunk and did cocaine, he couldn't look at blood and not faint, yet, his wife cut her hair, he came home, had a fight with her, she went to walk away from him and he put an ax thru her head. After doing that, did more cocaine, walked out of his home, called FOX news in NY, told them what he had done, did more cocaine then boarded a plane for Vegas, and was caught at one of the casinos by LE. Who really knows how cocaine can effect different person/persons?

 

[bx2]

I'm not sure how much co-operation they would get or if it would help them, but I do wish that LE or the parents would make a request for young women that are close to Lauren's description, that were in the vicinity of Lauren that night to come forward and let LE know a quick summation of their night. If anything, it may help them piece together *mysterious eye witness accounts* and false positives.

 

[elmomom]

Why does it matter WHAT LS was doing at 3:38AM?
She was with JR dialing phones at 4:15AM and then leaving his place at 4:30AM...per him. No way he would want to put her in his house that late if she wasn't there. Unless of course HE carried her back to his house at 3:38AM, or had his friend do it.

Exxxxactly. Or they did it together.

 

[Gabby66]

Lol, I didn't think it was dumb. LE likely would be able to charge some of the POIs with a drug-related offense. Did you ever hear the phrase "trumped-up charges?" The point of doing that would be to detain them for questioning, where they could then ask about other stuff (or at least have them, if they're a flight risk).

Thanks. Not sure if I've heard that term or not....sounds vaguely familiar. I understand now (I think LOL). I thought that you were saying they could arrest them for murder, based on HERESAY for drugs.

One other thing comes to mind though....I was once told by a Cop/friend that it's not a crime to SAY/admit you've done drugs. He also said it wasn't a crime to admit to selling drugs, and that if a kid says "John Doe sold me drugs." John Doe couldn't be charged unless there is evidence. I was told that saying you did something isn't punishable by law, however, if a kid has drugs in his possession and says that John Doe sold them to him, that could be entirely different. Is any of this true, or did I misunderstand? If it's true, that's why this part was confusing - unless of course there would be evidence. Make sense, or am I confusing you? LOL

 

[Blythe]

And it would add a 2nd player to the JR removing LS with help later on at 4:30 scenario

I'm with you.

 

[bunnyesq.]

At this point, I think it's a very safe bet these theories don't include the "mystery man."

Maybe he's not a mystery man to LE.

That said, I know that the bar manager/witness says that she saw a photo lineup of the POIs, and that none of them matched the person she saw/gave a description for a sketch.