IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #12

[jennyb629]

Since we are all discussing every word she said, I think it's silly to complain that she is talking.
:twocents:

I don't think people are complaining necessarily, just wondering why she is doing this...

 

[bessie]

Does anyone think that traumtic events could have triggered CR's "Amensia, Black Out, Memory Loss, or whatever other word people" want to give it?

One of my best friends was involved in a domestic dispute with her husband causing her to eventually die a few years later.

He has no memory of the events that occured that night, and I'm guessing he unintentionally blacked out all memories of that night.

Help me out psychologists? Is it possible that horrific events cause some people "to forget??"


I'm hoping this isn't the case with CR.

Certainly, witnessing a horrific event can cause amnesia. Post traumatic stress disorder might explain your friend's husband's amnesia.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_and_trauma"]Memory and trauma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

In this case, it's important to remember that the claim of CR's amnesia was made by CR's lawyer. There's no way to be sure the claim is valid because we can't know what another person remembers. Secondly, the lawyer says the amnesia was caused by the blow to the head CR suffered in the fight, which is a possibility. We haven't seen medical reports to show the location or extent of the injury, so the claim can't be justified or refuted. We can either accept it at face value, or not. Personally, I see it as a convenient cop out, but I could be totally wrong.

 

[epiphany]

Not that huge. Quite some time ago, CR's lawyer said that three other people saw LS that night in addition to CR. JR, MB and presumably someone else.

For me it was important news because I had thought the fourth person was DR who we recently learned had hired an attorney for matters concerning LS' disappearance.

 

[jennyb629]

For me it was important news because I had thought the fourth person was DR who we recently learned had hired an attorney for matters concerning LS' disappearance.

For me it was significant because I thought the 4th person was a random neighbor or passive passerby who may have 'seen' her but didn't really know anything, which is what I thought was the reason they were never identified as one of the last people to see her. This news that it was someone visiting JR changes everything as we can now assume that 4th person had some important information about the night, if we are to believe CR/MB/JR's stories.

 

[sv614]

I'm not sure how you would be able to tell somebody is lying about events they are not aware of, when polygraph cannot always tell if someone is being truthful about events they did have knowledge of. In my wikipedia link, there is mention of the "Green River Killer", Gary Ridgway. He passed a polygraph twenty years before he was finally apprehended. He was also reported to have an IQ of 82. I do not think he passed the polygraph by outsmarting it.

"Do you remember any events between June 3rd at 2:30am and June 3rd at 4:30am?" ... seems pretty cut and dry no?

 

[cluciano63]

For me it was significant because I thought the 4th person was a random neighbor or passive passerby who may have 'seen' her but didn't really know anything, which is what I thought was the reason they were never identified as one of the last people to see her. This news that it was someone visiting JR changes everything as we can now assume that 4th person had some important information about the night, if we are to believe CR/MB/JR's stories.

And also that this other person is not necessarily an impartial bystander to events.

 

[phantomthought]

Not blaming HT for speaking, but I, for one, question any part of the story that we have heard that is not documented on camera, or verified by another source such as CR's attorney.
It just seems to me that HT is way too personally involved with the players here and has plenty of motivation to color the events to protect herself and her friends. Nothing in her behavior throughout this debacle has reassured me that her primary interest is in the best interest of LS.

I think she is probably trying to protect everyone including LS that is why she said LS originally went to JR to watch a game that was apparently over.She did not want to say she went their to drink or meet CR.

 

[Frogzilla]

"Do you remember any events between June 3rd at 2:30am and June 3rd at 4:30am?" ... seems pretty cut and dry no?

He could of answered that his friend tucked him into bed at 3am and that is all he remembers. What if the polygraph test didn't show any deception on that question, are we to believe that his statement is still 100% correct?

 

[sv614]

Certainly, witnessing a horrific event can cause amnesia. Post traumatic stress disorder might explain your friend's husband's amnesia.

Memory and trauma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In this case, it's important to remember that the claim of CR's amnesia was made by CR's lawyer. There's no way to be sure the claim is valid because we can't know what another person remembers. Secondly, the lawyer says the amnesia was caused by the blow to the head CR suffered in the fight, which is a possibility. We haven't seen medical reports to show the location or extent of the injury, so the claim can't be justified or refuted. We can either accept it at face value, or not. Personally, I see it as a convenient cop out, but I could be totally wrong.

I don't know why but I really don't see as CR being involved in her disappearance. I don't believe his memory loss is due to the fight - I believe it's from drinking and possibly other substances. Heck, it's happened to the best of us. The lawyer probably just doesn't want to admit how much substance abuse was involved on that night.

I know that LE has not officially said anything to clear him, but there appears to be a consensus that he was the one that cooperated the most. He stuck around. His lawyer gave a statement. I bet he is desperate to clear his name.

The statements his lawyer made claim he has no memory, he was not the last person to see him, and he has been fully cooperating. Those are very specific statements that seem too risky to make if he couldn't stand behind them.

 

[jjenny]

I agree this is good for those of us (including those on this site) who are interested in figuring out what happened. However, that does not mean that HT revealing information is/isn't what LE or others involved in the case want HT to do...so I think others were just wondering what her motivations are in stating some of these things in the press. Certainly her motivations are not to indulge people like us.

I believe if LE wanted to get info out, they could contact the reporters directly. And if they didn't want public to know the info came from LE, they could ask reporter to claim the info came from an anonymous source. Rather than involving a rather talkative girl like HT, who after all had been talking from the very beginning.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

He could of answered that his friend tucked him into bed at 3am and that is all he remembers. What if the polygraph test didn't show any deception on that question, are we to believe that his statement is still 100% correct?

of course not. we should also recognize that the good reasons that polygraph results are not admissible in court do not nevertheless imply that they don't have some potential utility if not reliability for investigative purposes.

 

[sv614]

He could of answered that his friend tucked him into bed at 3am and that is all he remembers. What if the polygraph test didn't show any deception on that question, are we to believe that his statement is still 100% correct?

Not 100%, but I would be more likely to believe them than to not believe them if they were supported by polygraph results.

 

[webrocket]

forgive me if any of this has been said as I have not read all the posts.

I can certainly believe that given Lauren's general medical problems and her state of intoxication that night, she experienced some sort of medical emergency. having said that, I am trying to play a script in my mind, keeping in mind all the actors have been partying and there is a very short window of time to act or react.

without reference to particular males as I can't be certain whom she was with at any time besides what's found on videos, suppose she is at John Doe's apt when she has her medical emergency. I can see John Doe panicking. does John Doe act alone and dispose of a body without calling anyone? possible but not likely IMO.

so John Doe calls Jack Doe and says "oh s--t, Lauren is not responding, there's something seriously wrong with her". I would think Jack Doe would say "call an ambulance" or "hide or flush the drugs then call an ambulance".

I doubt John DOe would ask Jack Doe to help him dispose of a body without knowing what the reation would be as Jack Doe could easily say "are you f-----g nuts?" and at that point, John Doe's intentions are exposed without a helper. whie it is not impossible, I find it hard to believe that even these spoiled brats would have a meeting of the minds at 4 a.m. to work together to ditch a body. even more hard for me to believe is that they could do it without anyone having spilled the beans by now.

I will assume, and I know the pitfalls of that, that LE has checked their vehicles. without getting graphic I believe (although am not sure) that a freshly deceased person in this situation would emit some sort of bodily fluid such as vomit, or other bodily functions if lying dead in a car. even if they undertook such an endeavor, the clean up would be apparent, if in fact the vehicles were checked.

a dumpster is a diferent story, which is where the body of Andrew Compton was supposedly dumped after his death. however, with cameras in the area, one or two intoxicated males could easily be seen by cameras dragging or carrying a body-sized object to a dumpster.

so the long and the short of it is, I don't see that scenario, although it is possible.

 

[Frogzilla]

of course not. we should also recognize that the good reasons that polygraph results are not admissible in court do not nevertheless imply that they don't have some potential utility if not reliability for investigative purposes.

Agree 100%
There have been comments to the effect that CR has passed a polygraph so there is not much reason to look into him any further, so I guess I was just tired of seeing that and wanted clarification.

 

[jjenny]

Agree 100%
There have been comments to the effect that CR has passed a polygraph so there is not much reason to look into him any further, so I guess I was just tired of seeing that and wanted clarification.

I've not seen it reported anywhere that CR passed a polygraph.

 

[sv614]

forgive me if any of this has been said as I have not read all the posts.

I can certainly believe that given Lauren's general medical problems and her state of intoxication that night, she experienced some sort of medical emergency. having said that, I am trying to play a script in my mind, keeping in mind all the actors have been partying and there is a very short window of time to act or react.

without reference to particular males as I can't be certain whom she was with at any time besides what's found on videos, suppose she is at John Doe's apt when she has her medical emergency. I can see John Doe panicking. does John Doe act alone and dispose of a body without calling anyone? possible but not likely IMO.

so John Doe calls Jack Doe and says "oh s--t, Lauren is not responding, there's something seriously wrong with her". I would think Jack Doe would say "call an ambulance" or "hide or flush the drugs then call an ambulance".

I doubt John DOe would ask Jack Doe to help him dispose of a body without knowing what the reation would be as Jack Doe could easily say "are you f-----g nuts?" and at that point, John Doe's intentions are exposed without a helper. whie it is not impossible, I find it hard to believe that even these spoiled brats would have a meeting of the minds at 4 a.m. to work together to ditch a body. even more hard for me to believe is that they could do it without anyone having spilled the beans by now.

I will assume, and I know the pitfalls of that, that LE has checked their vehicles. without getting graphic I believe (although am not sure) that a freshly deceased person in this situation would emit some sort of bodily fluid such as vomit, or other bodily functions if lying dead in a car. even if they undertook such an endeavor, the clean up would be apparent, if in fact the vehicles were checked.

a dumpster is a diferent story, which is where the body of Andrew Compton was supposedly dumped after his death. however, with cameras in the area, one or two intoxicated males could easily be seen by cameras dragging or carrying a body-sized object to a dumpster.

so the long and the short of it is, I don't see that scenario, although it is possible.

From what I understand, one of the POIs that the blog-and-forum-o-sphere is most suspicious of left so soon after she was reported missing, that there have been speculations that he left with her in his vehicle.

I have not heard about LE knocking on his door, or anyone else's, to search anything. Doesn't mean it didn't happen ... but I think we would have heard about it.

 

[guitarmeister]

Because she gathered info from the rest of them, the press is asking her, and she wants to fill in the blanks? Again, why disparage her for giving out info all of us want to know?

I completely agree. There have been some comments on WS that HT maybe had ulterior motives such protecting others or being a "press hog." IMO she is simply a roommate trying to help find LS. Most of what HT has said is based on conversations she had with JR and others. They were friends but this doesn't mean that she was getting the truth.

LE may have asked her to not to discuss the case any further after seeing that she was talking a bit initially. Not being an eye witness for most of the events that night lessens the creditability of any information from HT. Especially after LS left her room never to return.

As I have said in a previous post, LS would have been in JR apartment for about an hour or so prior to leaving at 4:30 AM. This is based on the unverifiable part of time line after 2:51 AM based on information, presumably from JR.

Since this is more than a "stop and go" visit, what occurred, who was there and general nature of the conversation would be important. LE has released absolutely no details about this alleged last stop at JR. Either they aren't releasing those details, or really don't know. I'm betting on the latter.

 

[bessie]

He could of answered that his friend tucked him into bed at 3am and that is all he remembers. What if the polygraph test didn't show any deception on that question, are we to believe that his statement is still 100% correct?

With evidence of a head injury and claim of amnesia, I doubt he'd be asked to take a polygraph exam. The results would be questionable.

 

[cluciano63]

As far as dumpsters as a possibility, Lauren would barely be considered "oversized", I've probably take out larger bags of trash than what she would make...

Even if LE came across a video showing or more of the guys taking out trash, not sure there is much they could do that with that, if the dumpster was long gone and they all said it was just that...taking out the trash. Sure, it might add to a future circumstantial case...

 

[bessie]

From what I understand, one of the POIs that the blog-and-forum-o-sphere is most suspicious of left so soon after she was reported missing, that there have been speculations that he left with her in his vehicle.

I have not heard about LE knocking on his door, or anyone else's, to search anything. Doesn't mean it didn't happen ... but I think we would have heard about it.

I think I posted an article yesterday that said JR's apartment was searched. Give me a minute to find it.