IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #12

[docwho3]

In reading online articles about this case I noticed some things
that I would like to know more about:

I wonder if those articles found were ever proven to be related to
this case or not?

'. . . Police have asked the volunteers to start looking down and
to go through the grass and the dirt . So far, searchers have turned up
a woman's bra and part of a cell phone. Police have taken both. . . .'
http://www.wthr.com/story/14891050/police-may-have-new-leads-in-the-disappearance-of-lauren-spierer

IF the 'part of a cell phone' was case related then:
Just whose 'part of a cell phone' was found anyway?
We have all read that Laurens phone was at the bar.

And whatever became of this stuff?
'. . . removed a bag of clothes and a shoe box, according to an apartment spokesperson.
The bag and shoe box were found behind a dumpster on the 6th floor . . .'

'. . . Reps for Smallwood Plaza said the items could not have been there the day before.
Though people are currently moving into the building, reps added the items
were suspicious because they were tucked away. . . .'
http://www.wsbt.com/news/wxin-laure...t-building-20110617,0,5733185.story?track=rss

 

[Pedrosmom]

Yes , yes and yes.

Yea I can't dimiss jw,there were alot of circumstances that all accumulated that night.

iirc,LE said just that, she was w/ "someone" in the alley. But I've read news articles that make the assumption it was cr.

And I thought they lived close. I have'nt had coffee but it"s on the map.

I wake up hoping for news. It's so sad tracking her last movements. It's got to eat at some of these people involved.

I'm with you on JW. Here's a guy who didn't spend any time with LS that night but somehow concluded rather quickly the next morning that she was "Missing." How would he know given that she was with all of these guys that weren't his friends. He and some others were the ones that started the fight with CR, CR is the last one with her and we're supposed to believe he just went home with his tail between his legs while his girlfriend partied with the guy he beat up and his friends all night. He couldn't talk to her by phone because she didn't have it. Question is - when did the bartender call him to get the phone? Late that night? Did he read the texts, listen to any voicemails? Is he on any cameras and LE is keeping it close to the vest? She could have been anywhere - where did he look? did he call CR, JR, DR and everyone she was supposedly partying with and ask? I would scrutinize every step he took, phone call/text made from the moment LS left smallwood with CR after the fight up until he called LS's parents and reported her "missing". I'd like to know what was said in that conversation that alarmed the parents so much that they rushed to IU to look for her. Now he's playing possum. Start with the ones closest to the victim and move out from there.

 

[Pedrosmom]

Who can verify JW's whereabouts all night into the wee hours of the morning?

What about CR? After the camera sighting - where did he/they go? Is it possible (as he has amnesia) that CR and LS ran into JW that night after JW picks up the cell phone from the bar and after the camera sighting. CR goes home because he's toast and doesn't want any more drama with JW so he leaves JW with LS. CR wakes up and senses something went wrong with LS after he left and starts asking around if anyone had seen LS. Maybe CR's amnesia is true and his sense kicks in when he wakes up that something wasn't right. Now LS is missing...

That doesn't explain JR's admission or phone call, that is, unless JR and JW are friends and JR is covering for JW? Does JW threaten to blow a drug operation wide open is JR doesn't claim LS was at his place? Isn't that where she was headed with CR?

I know I'm going off on a tangent but I can't get JW off my mind and his choice of words when he called her parents.

I can see other scenarios playing out as well. The bartender and the sideburns guy, JR and seeing her round the corner, nothing on camera after 2:51 - except the white truck (the TG forum has some interesting info on a person close to the POI's that resembles the guy that the bartender ID'd and his relation to that evening's going ons)

Everyone is a suspect. This is the strangest case of "keep your mouth shut" I've ever seen. These poor parents just want closure. For the sake of them, show them to their daughter. My daughter goes off to college next year. IU is in her top 5 choices. I won't be able to sleep at night. I've been a lurker/member of this forum for quite some time and cannot get over the crimes on college campuses. Right now I have an IPhone App that's on her phone and mine and I can track her to 100 feet. Without her cell phone, it's useless. God bless her family. I hope one of these "friends" has a conscience and will come to terms with it soon.

 

[EllaMae]

The lack of available information about cell phone activity LS & POI's is what I am focused on. How have we not heard anything?

And why do I feel like this is new information or miss-reporting?

"Several hours later, Wolff reported her missing after someone at Kilroy's called him to say Spierer left her phone there. He got the phone and then checked Spierer's apartment."

http://www.lohud.com/article/201106...-nets-few-leads?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|News

Why did JW PICK UP her phone????? And did the LE interview the bartender who gave JW the phone? What was JW's demeanor? Frantic? Confused? What?

Anyone else wish we could read transcripts of texts between JW, LS, HT, JR, DR, CR, and MB?????

IMHO...JW went to get her phone because he figured that Lauren maybe didn't know she'd left it there,and that she probably called her own phone as a way of trying to find it. That would give him a clue as to her whereabouts, and maybe her condition. I'd do the same thing if someone I was close to was unaccounted for, and had left a phone behind in a bar. I just don't see anything weird about Jesse getting her phone. I see it as a good place to start tracking her down. My daughters, who are in college, are never without their cell phones....until they misplace one. Then they either call their phone from someone else's cell until it's located, or they have me call over and over until they find it. Someone will answer a lost cell phone, and tell where it is located most of the time if it keeps ringing. I've done that myself, and in fact the bar employee did answer it.
Personally, if one of my daughters left her phone in a bar under the circumstances that Lauren left hers, and hadn't stopped by the first thing the next day, or tried to call it to see where it was located, I would panic. To kids that age, cell phones are as necessary as breathing. My girls would never voluntarily be separated from their phones for very long without trying to find it. It would be a clear sign to me that something was very wrong if they didn't. I'm not surprised that Jesse was concerned.

 

[shockedandappalled]

Omg could someone go look at the link from lovejac:

Please look at the date of the first posting(its even listed right ^above^ in the link I just pasted).. The first entry is at 12:29pm on June 2, 2011...

How could this be when Lauren did not even go missing til after 4:15am of June 3rd amd wasn't reported as missing til many hours later on the afternoon of June 3, 2011..

Can anyone explain this? It says it even in the link ^above^(6/2/2011)..

WTF??

B/c the <modsnip> who made it set the date wrong.

I hope the Rosenbaums can get that defamatory site taken down. Who does that person think they are posting all that information about people connected to JR?

Again I am reminded of the Salem Witch hunts.

 

[VeryVeritas]

Maybe I wasn't clear in my expressing why I believe that LS did infact not meet with doom until having made it both into and out of Rossman's apt and atleast "into" Rosenbaum's apt..

When I say JR as the fall guy, I obviously do not mean as in he is a designated "patsy" to take the fall for a crime..

When I say fall guy I mean it as in.."IF" Lauren had met with doom before having made it to Jay's apt(as was theorized upthread and what I was replying to) "IF" that was actually what had happened that LS met with doom either before even entering 5 North(as was theorized) or having met with doom in Rossman's apt and in that scenario therefor she NEVER WOULD HAVE MADE IT TO JAY ROSENBAUM's apt..

"IF" that were actually the case then there is no way In hell that Jay Rosenbaum would allow and go with the "cover story" being as what we know... That LS was last in his apt and he was the ONLY person to have last seen her make that corner of 11th/College..

Does that make sense?? If Jay were not the actual last person to see Lauren amd his apt not truly have been the last place that she was at.. Then why would Jay go with this as his acct to the events of that night?? Why if actually she met with doom outside of 5 North or met with doom inside Rossman's apt why would Jay Rosenbaum agree to be the "fall guy".. (and please read what I mean by "fall guy").. If LS had met with doom anywhere else, with other ppl involved, such as Beth and Rossman.. There is no way in hell that JR would lie and say she was last in his apt and last to see her..therefor becoming the "fall guy" as everything falls with him being the last to see as well as his apt being the last ace that she was at..

He would not agree to this"cover story" and even if he were present when LS met with doom but it was in Rossman's apt or outside of 5 North.. Any way you slice it THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY IN HELL THAT JAY ROSENBAUM WOULD HAVE ALL SUSPICION FALL ON HIM BY STATING THAT HE WAS LAST TO SEE AND SHE WAS LAST IN HIS APT...:

the only way that Jay Rosenbaum would tell this amd therefor have all the heat on him IS BECAUSE HE ACTUALLY AND TRULY WAS THE LAST TO SEE HER AND SHE WAS LAST IN HIS APT..

Lauren did not meet with doom neither outside of 5 North(when en route with Rossman from Smallwood).. Nor did Lauren meet with doom while in Rossman's Apt(prior to going to Jay's).. Lauren did infact make it to Jay Rosenbaum's and there is no other way about it..

"IF" she hadnt Jay's acct would not be that he was the last to see her and that it was his apt she was last seen at..

Very simple to understand, not a difficult or confusing opinio but rather clear cut and to the point..
HTH!

Yes there is a simple reason why JR would take the heat:
TO MAKE SURE IT WAS DONE CORRECTLY! If the reason for concealing the death had to do with drugs supplied via JR and the supply chain he is responsible for protecting (the organized crime/gangster code of ... silence - and this extends often right down to clients, everyone knows you don't reveal your sources or you die) then he certainly would be motivated to make sure it was done correctly. And if a professional were present, they definitely would not want to have it get messy and lead to them.
Visualize - Girl dies from drug cocktail, next question... who supplied the drugs? There would be fierce LE and family pursuit of those up the supply chain. JR's life would be ruined. Would he trust a beat up stumbling CR to handle the situation?

Anyway, I do think that JR was more directly involved and not just covering for CR. But I also think he is lying about the time she supposedly left. The 2 things that cause me to wonder about her demise in the gravel lot are the purse being found there and the "Activity" caught on the cam. Why LE is not saying what that Activity was is curious... It could have been something silly like LS riding on CR's back because the gravel hurt her feet and that caused her to drop the purse. Perhaps she slipped off... we just don't know... So, I agree that all of them would have to be lying if she didn't make it to JR's and that there is less of a chance of that. Either way, the road leads to JR.

 

[shockedandappalled]

I am so disturbed by the thought that Bloomington LE along with the FBI and every other LE that is involved might have ruled out stranger abduction.

Does that mean that they think that Crystal Grubb's killer was her bf?

http://www.lohud.com/article/2011060...106090420/1018


Or that there is absolutely no connection between these two and Rebecca Cassidy?

IN IN - Rebecca Cassidy - 30s - Shelbyville - 10 April 2010 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
IN IN - Rebecca Cassidy - 30s - Shelbyville - 10 April 2010 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

How about Gail Palmgren?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...=141660&page=9


Tennesse is not that far from Indiana

And Holly Bobo?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...=133246&page=3


Any web sleuther think about looking at the pictures of the missing women in Indiana and surrounding states?

maybe make a list of the names, dates, physical appearances?

Or is it a done deal that it was one of LS's friends?
Edit/Delete Message

 

[shockedandappalled]

B/c the <modsnip> who made it set the date wrong.

I hope the Rosenbaums can get that defamatory site taken down. Who does that person think they are posting all that information about people connected to JR?

Again I am reminded of the Salem Witch hunts.

Why is that link even allowed here?

No one could post the Phish link where people who KNOW JR were sticking up for him.

Yet this link is allowed?

 

[VeryVeritas]

Maybe to move the action out of the crime scene where the evidence was. Not an accusation just a possible motive for placing her in another place.

Excellent point... this is what I meant about using other vehicles, etc...
if LE thinks it was perp A and there is no evidence in his car... but really Perp X's apt and Perp Y's car was used... it could be months later before LE has a chance to check for anything, if ever and by then evidence may not exist.

It is exactly this reason why mostly low IQ people are ones that get caught, convicted and sit in prison. Avg IQ in prison is in the 80's Avg IQ in the usa is around 105.

 

[wmacson]

Not a big article but interesting none-the-less:

His silence is deafening.
More than three weeks after Westchester college student Lauren Spierer vanished during a night out partying at Indiana University, Jason "Jay" Rosenbaum -- the last person to admit having seen her alive -- has ignored her parents' pleas for information that could lead them to their daughter, family friends told The Post.
"He is one of the people we wish would be more forthcoming," said a person involved in the ongoing search for the pretty, petite 20-year-old in Bloomington, Ind.


Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/mom_vs_mum_ugY7m4oec8dcMheGbA0PYI#ixzz1QTrj60OE

 

[VeryVeritas]

I do believe the fight was about CR being with Lauren, JMO. But they were her BF's friends, possibly not really hers and therefore may not have been in any position to try to convince her to stay with them. Also, perhaps CR said something to "invite" a punch, in their minds. MYOB, or something along those lines. Tempers, and fists, fly under the influence.

This is kinda OT, but back in "my day" lol, one could still drink at 18 so we drank as a matter of course in college and it did not seem to be such a big deal. I never heard of anyone getting alcohol poisoining during my entire time, and seldom saw people passed out or shoeless, etc...and as it was a state school, no one seemed to have money for anything more than weed. Sometimes I think people tend to drink more when they are doing it illegally than they might otherwise...JMO. (Also, I find it beyond ridiculous that people who can vote, etc. can't buy a beer, but that is another story.)

Not to say people did not get "wasted" but it never seemed to reach epic proportions. I know there are far more "designer" drugs out there nowadays and much else has changed as well. I see some of these kids with over 2000 "friends" on FB, and wonder if I have even encountered that many people in my 40+ years...

Until there is a statement we really don't know WHY CR was hit. Why don't the people who hit him say why they hit him? Why doesn't Salzman comment about that?

 

[VeryVeritas]

Omg could someone go look at the link from lovejac:
http://jayrosenbaumneedstotalk.word...info-on-fraternity-life-at-i-u-and-frat-boys/
Please look at the date of the first posting(its even listed right ^above^ in the link I just pasted).. The first entry is at 12:29pm on June 2, 2011...

How could this be when Lauren did not even go missing til after 4:15am of June 3rd amd wasn't reported as missing til many hours later on the afternoon of June 3, 2011..

Can anyone explain this? It says it even in the link ^above^(6/2/2011)..

WTF??

The server computer hosting the blog could simply not have the correct time and date.

 

[VeryVeritas]

I am so disturbed by the thought that Bloomington LE along with the FBI and every other LE that is involved might have ruled out stranger abduction.

Does that mean that they think that Crystal Grubb's killer was her bf?

http://www.lohud.com/article/2011060...106090420/1018


Or that there is absolutely no connection between these two and Rebecca Cassidy?

IN IN - Rebecca Cassidy - 30s - Shelbyville - 10 April 2010 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
IN IN - Rebecca Cassidy - 30s - Shelbyville - 10 April 2010 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

How about Gail Palmgren?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...=141660&page=9


Tennesse is not that far from Indiana

And Holly Bobo?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...=133246&page=3


Any web sleuther think about looking at the pictures of the missing women in Indiana and surrounding states?

maybe make a list of the names, dates, physical appearances?

Or is it a done deal that it was one of LS's friends?
Edit/Delete Message

I've seen nothing indicating what LE or the FBI are considering or to what degree. My own view is that the very slim chance of stranger abduction keeps getting made slimmer.... and it basically ALL stems from one statement made by JR. If JR's statement were true, it narrows down to about 1 block on N. College Ave. Odds favor something going on back at 5 N. College in my view... by a large margin.

 

[Frogzilla]

B/c the <modsnip> who made it set the date wrong.

I hope the Rosenbaums can get that defamatory site taken down. Who does that person think they are posting all that information about people connected to JR?

Again I am reminded of the Salem Witch hunts.

The Salem Witch hunts? 0.o seriously?
I agree that website may be in bad taste, but it seems like most of the articles on that website are from MSM sources. Today from the New York Post- http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/mom_vs_mum_ugY7m4oec8dcMheGbA0PYI
Interesting that LS and JR grandparents are neighbors in NY, these families do have some type of familiarity with each other it would seem.

 

[bessie]

The Salem Witch hunts? 0.o seriously?
I agree that website may be in bad taste, but it seems like most of the articles on that website are from MSM sources. Today from the New York Post- http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/mom_vs_mum_ugY7m4oec8dcMheGbA0PYI
Interesting that LS and JR grandparents are neighbors in NY, these families do have some type of familiarity with each other it would seem.

If their grandparents were neighbors for 20 years, it's safe to assume LS and JR were acquainted long before IU. (The article doesn't give specific dates, but that shouldn't be difficult to find out. ) It's an important tidbit, imo, because it aids in establishing the relationship between the two, and throws a new light on the situation.

 

[ally0x]

I have a couple of things I'd like to bring up..

1. Do you guys think the reason that DR has a lawyer is only because of the phone call? Because why would he have a lawyer if he hadn't seen her since Kilroy's? HT and possibly other girls were with her too, and yet I haven't heard anything about them having any lawyers, just all the guys. Not really significant, but just something I was wondering about. Could possibly be because he had something to do with it/knows something..or could just be because of the phone call and that makes him suspicious.

2. I think it may be possible that JW got LS's phone THAT night. My reasoning is because Kilroy's is open from 4pm to 3am. Supposedly JW got the phone the next day, but this can't really be plausible because wasn't she declared "missing" around 3pm? I'm assuming people would go to Kilroy's around 2pm? to start opening the place up, but I feel like the people at Kilroy's definitely would have found the phone THAT night while cleaning up, or maybe it was even found/turned in before clean up. So if JW was calling/texting THAT night because she wasn't answering, I feel like Kilroy's probably texted him that night to say the phone was there. It doesn't really make as much sense to say they waited until the next day, and that cuts down the time frame too. And the phone could have possibly been dead by the day time anyways.

So, what if they told JW about the phone around 2:30am - 3:00am? JW was last accounted for at 2:30 am. What if he left to go get the phone at Kilroy's, possibly saw text messages from other people?, regardless of any other texts/calls, if he did this, he probably went looking for her. I'm sure he figured out who she was with by her phone, and so he started going to those apartments to find her...

I'm sure if this happened LE knows about it though because of the video at Kilroy's and surrounding areas..But it's so frustrating that we hardly know anything!! It gives almost TOO much room for us to speculate..:banghead:

But yea, this is just a possible scenario.

 

[5150_bound]

i see two theories:

1) JW was humiliated & went into a rage when his girl was stepping out in public with CR, so he waited for Lauren to be walking home by herself. I dont know enough about his whereabouts that night to know if this is even possible but i do find it reallllly odd he would leave town in the middle of all this. also filing a police report so early on is also odd. remember when Morgan Harrington was abducted? her friends drove her car back home from the concert when they couldnt find her- yet they still did not call the police nor her parents with concern. her father had to call them after he found out Morgan's purse had been found + plus Morgan didnt show up at his house as planned. I think a lot of people involved in a crime will do what they think an innocent person would do, which in this case- would be to report them missing.

side note: i find it odd Lauren would remember to grab her change purse but not her phone. kids do not go without their phones! is it a possibility that someone took Laurens phone and placed it back at the bar later on? at the very least- the leaving of the phone (if she did in fact leave it there) shows she was highly intoxicated IMO.

2) I think the reason JR would place himself as the last person to see Lauren- would be to divert attention off of the real crime scene & to open the door that a random person got to her. the reason he would put himself out there like this would be- IF he was involved with whatever happened to her. also the mind set of many is to give partial info, that way they seem like they are less likely involved and can appear convincing in their statements & appear to be cooperating.

i personally feel whatever went down (IMO) involved JR & CR. either MB was also there or he is covering for his friends. I dont fully believe that CR passed out before the girl he was parting with. I loathe his attorney for saying his memory loss was due to being hit. IF he had memory loss, it was from a black out due to alcohol. and that is a big IF. i just wonder if LE has searched the apt of CR & MB?

ultimately i think Lauren passed due to intoxication/drugs/health issues-- & everyone panicked. have scent dogs picked up anything?

 

[jjenny]

There has been no information to suggest that the b/f was able to pick up the phone that very night. Everything that was reported indicates he was trying to contact her the next morning. I don't know when exactly the bar opens, but that time would be irrelevant if someone was there before opening time.

"Here, Rossman, who is 21, and Spierer, who is 20, stayed for 41 minutes. Police won't say whether they were drinking alcohol or how much. The bar is being investigated for possible alcohol violations. But when they were done, Spierer, with Rossman at her side, walked barefoot across the sand and out the door, leaving her shoes behind, along with her cellphone, which would ring away the next morning with text messages from Spierer's boyfriend, Jesse Wolff, whom Spierer never seemed to connect with that night."
http://www.indystar.com/article/201...pierer?odyssey=tab|mostpopular|text|FRONTPAGE

 

[shockedandappalled]

The Salem Witch hunts? 0.o seriously?
I agree that website may be in bad taste, but it seems like most of the articles on that website are from MSM sources. Today from the New York Post- http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/mom_vs_mum_ugY7m4oec8dcMheGbA0PYI
Interesting that LS and JR grandparents are neighbors in NY, these families do have some type of familiarity with each other it would seem.

Um yes. How many people here have decided that the guilty person is JR? OR one of LS other friends?

How many people here are still keeping a random abductor possibility?

Why is THAT word press link allowed but the PHISH tour link is not?

I do hope that the moderator makes ALL of the links be removed EVEN the ones who referenced the link.

As the Phish tour links were not allowed here.

 

[curiousgirl2010]

Hey guys, I've been away for the past 5 and am very confused as to what's going on.

Did we get new information? Is Jay Rosenbaum a suspect now??