IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #12

[GoodAim]

Just a couple of odd thoughts: What if guy #1 shared some grass with her, guy #2 shared some coke, guy #3 supplied her with some drinks, guy #4 had a few Xanax or Oxy to share.... and, if sadly, this was all too much for her size and heart problem, and she passed away suddenly? There might also be other females, 21 or older, who gave her alcohol or a little something else earlier in the evening? Everyone might feel some degree of responsibility for what happened to her. I think the only way I could live with that and not confess all would be if I could convince myself that (1) I ONLY gave her a little of ....., or (2) But she ASKED me for it; it's not MY fault. In my case, even that wouldn't work: I'd feel guilty for life and unable to experience any degree of peace until I owned up to my part and took my punishment.

One other thought is that if Lauren was OK to walk over to the bar, and various timelines state that she was at Sports for 41 minutes to an hour, I wonder if soon after arriving at the bar she was given (or chose to take) a drug by mouth, not by snorting... and drugs taken orally can take 40 minutes to "kick in".* That could jibe with a possible collapse in the alley at 2:51? Or a collapse at 5 North. That would mean she had 10-15 minutes to procure (or be slipped) some kind of drug after arriving at the bar?

Just my speculations....
MHO

*When I was injured and taking oxy or other narcotics, all the health care personnel said: "Be sure to take it 40 minutes before physical therapy or getting driven somewhere." It's can be the same, IMHO, for Ritalin and older stimulants (which were easy to get and used a lot in the early 70s).

 

[elmomom]

snip
The other guys, their actions/inactions make them suspect to me along with LS' parent's focusing on her group of friends. Not once did I get the feeling her parents were thinking about a stranger abduction.

I think that the parents are likely more suspicious of the social circle since they have the same reservations as we all do about why some seem to be hiding and not cooperating. But I think it is entirely possible that the running and hiding for cover has everything to do with the desire to hide the drug culture lifestyle from the glare of the spotlight than any real involvement.

I can say, after googling any of the main names in this case, if I had info I would never take the risk of coming forward now. At least not anonymously - even the vaguely associated names are getting highly visible on the net.

 

[jjenny]

I agree that likelihood of people coming forward with info is small. If police wants them to talk, they will have to figure out a way to put pressure on them, because it sure doesn't look like they are coming forward on their own.

 

[Gabby66]

Just finally catching up.....lots to have read. I have been thinking about this a lot and have some comments:

1. I don't think the call was a "pocket dial". One of 2 things would likely have occurred:

a. JR had noticed a pocket dial, and when LE (presumably) interviewed him, why would he not just say that it was a pocket dial? There would be records to show that DR had been the last (previous) person dialed earlier. ...or if that person is in your speed dial, it's easy to sit on just one button. My kids "pocket dial" me all of the time through speed dial. I would be curious to know why JR might consider DR of importance enough to place him on "speed dial". But if that's what he thought may have happened, why embellish the story?

b. JR hadn't noticed that he made a pocket dial (more likely) and when LE asked about the call, he quickly made up that LS borrowed his phone. Why not just say (if he didn't know the call was made), "I don't know - LS must have borrowed my phone." It was reported as though he said this as fact (through HT I believe). If that's the case, and it didn't happen, good investigators can tell through body language that one is lying.

2. I believe someone pointed it out earlier, but I find it VERY odd that JR would stand in his open doorway, or lean out of a window, the entire time that it would take LS to walk clear down the block, and round that corner. If she was drunk and barefoot, she surely wasn't in a speed race. That seems like a long while to stand there watching. If he was concerned enough to watch that entire time, why not give her a ride, or walk her home?

3. Regarding the fight....perhaps they didn't like CR's "advances" and thought he was taking advantage of a drunk Lauren....but I struggle with thinking she was really THAT drunk. If so, she's probably be in a ball of goo about now. I don't think she'd have the frame of mind to walk CR home. No doubt she was drunk, but I just think the fight was something more, and I don't think that she was THAT wasted to the point of not having her senses, or she wouldn't have been too concerned about CR, nor been able to navigate her way to his place.

 

[Cuoco7]

Um yes. How many people here have decided that the guilty person is JR? OR one of LS other friends?

How many people here are still keeping a random abductor possibility?

Why is THAT word press link allowed but the PHISH tour link is not?

I do hope that the moderator makes ALL of the links be removed EVEN the ones who referenced the link.

As the Phish tour links were not allowed here.

What would we gain by having the phish tour link allowed?

 

[Gabby66]

One other thing that I was thinking of today....

Not sure I'm buying the OD theory anymore either. IF she OD'd, I'd think that they'd call an ambulance or take her to the hospital. Sure, they could be scared, for fear that they could be implicated in giving her some drug, but unless they did the drugs out in public, or perhaps in the alley which was caught on camera, there would really be no way to prove this. She had been at a bar - could have been slipped something in her drink. Even if they were all forced to take a drug test, I'm not sure how long coke shows up in your system. Pot is like 40 days I think, in urine. But big deal - so they were on drugs too? That doesn't prove that THEY gave them to her. I don't know. I just find this one more difficult of the scenarios. However, it's also the ONLY one that I can see which would give them all cause to help with a cover up - they'd all be scared to believe they could each be implicated.

 

[bluehippo22]

Actually if she decided to walk to JW's b/c she didn't have her keys that widens the area considerably as well as the time.

If LS left 5North, I favor the possibilty that LS could have headed east towards JW's. I agree this would add more time on the streets. Also, this route would be void of cameras and a darker area with lots of trees and houses. She may have frequently walked from the bars and 5North to JW's and been comfortable with the route.

 

[woodpecker2k]

There is another board where JW's brother has been posting and has said some pretty interesting stuff. Are we allowed to post this link and/or discuss what he has said? Just want to make sure this is ok (or not against TOS) before doing so.

 

[jjenny]

There is another board where JW's brother has been posting and has said some pretty interesting stuff. Are we allowed to post this link and/or discuss what he has said? Just want to make sure this is ok (or not against TOS) before doing so.

I think we have to remember that on the internet anyone can pretend to be anyone's brother.

 

[curiousgirl2010]

I am also entirely on the fence.

I'm probably leaning more towards a stranger abduction. I haven't read anything in MSM or anywhere else that points towards Lauren's group of friends.

I remember people saying the EXACT same thing about Morgan Harrington's friends - they are bad friends, they are not being forthcoming, their stories are suspcious, etc... In the end, her body was found and matched with a stranger's DNA.

I, for one, think a stranger could have had tons of opportunity to snatch a small, drunk, blonde girl. Maybe the only thing Jay Rosenbaum is guilty of, is of being a little too drunk to know exactly what he saw and where he saw Lauren. Maybe he said he saw her walking home so people don't crucify him as a bad friend even if he just went straight to bed after Lauren left his door.

Maybe Lauren didn't go directly home, maybe she wondered to find her shoes, her keys, her phone... Cameras do NOT tell the whole story. She could have walked other ways in which she was not caught on camera.

In summary, all I'm saying is that I'm not conviced this was NOT a stranger abduction/crime of opportunity.

I think the public heat on Jay Rosenbaum is unfair because there is NOTHING that points towards him killing Lauren. Zero. There is no evidence, no motive.

I am on the fence and my two possibilities are:

1) Lauren wandered of the boys' apartment complex and met with stranger danger.

2) Lauren's boyfriend did something to her. I only believe this can be the case because the fight and Lauren being with CR creates a motive for a crime of passion.

 

[shockedandappalled]

Yes, we've talked about that here at length. Even then it's doubtful that he'd be able to see her "round the corner" because of the darkness, foliage, etc. Hard to know for certain unless someone goes inside which I hope the PD or FBI has done.

A "Now Leasing" sign is posted.

I am sure they have. And not one person here unless they were in the apartment looking at the window at the time that JR says he was can know definitively what he could or could not see. As far as brightness even if it appears to be too dark we are talking about someone wearing a white shirt.

Now leasing.....so?

College leases expire July/Aug.

 

[ela_ss teacher]

This all makes me think of the Phylicia Barnes case as well as others. Phylicia's parents and LE have a suspicion of what MIGHT have happened and who MIGHT (PROBABLY) have had something to do with her disappearance and the subsequent finding of her body. However, the "players" in that situation have remained extremely tight lipped. In many cases the parties involved in a crime or someone with knowledge of that crime eventually crack and come forward. But we have seen so many cases where a person may come forward YEARS even DECADES later with information that has burned a hole in their conscience, that cracks a very cold case. That is why in my mind, I don't quite dismiss Lauren's friends just b/c nobody has cracked.

Lauren MAY have been abducted by a stranger. Looking at that photo show, there looks to me to be all kinds of little nooks and crannies for some monster to be lurking, just waiting for someone to snatch.. Her friends and associates may be guilty of absolutely nothing except being carefree college students looking out for their own best interest.

Having read and watched many true crime cases, I remain firmly on the fence as to what has happened to Lauren. The outcomes of some cases are sometimes baffling and go in a direction that nobody could have imagined. I know that means nothing in the grand scheme of things. But I just felt led to inject my $.02.

I just hope it doesn't take decades for Lauren's parents to find the closure they need to this nightmare.

 

[curiousgirl2010]

There is another board where JW's brother has been posting and has said some pretty interesting stuff. Are we allowed to post this link and/or discuss what he has said? Just want to make sure this is ok (or not against TOS) before doing so.

Can you please post a link? <modsnip>? I haven't heard anything about JW. That would be helpful.

 

[jjenny]

I don't see anything unfair about the "heat" on someone who was after all, the last known person to have seen LS before she vanished.

 

[shockedandappalled]

I don't see anything unfair about the "heat" on someone who was after all, the last known person to have seen LS before she vanished.

You don't know what heat is or not being put on them by the APPROPRIATE people aka LE.

As far as the Spierer's they are pleading and the people hear are construing it to be something which it may or may not be which is suspicion.

 

[ela_ss teacher]

I am sure they have. And not one person here unless they were in the apartment looking at the window at the time that JR says he was can know definitively what he could or could not see. As far as brightness even if it appears to be too dark we are talking about someone wearing a white shirt.

Now leasing.....so?

College leases expire July/Aug.

With all due respect, I don't quite understand the argumentative air to most of your comments. I understand that it isn't fair to try and convict members of Lauren's circle with so few clues. I get that. Do you have a personal stake in this case?

 

[jjenny]

You don't know what heat is or not being put on them by the APPROPRIATE people aka LE.

As far as the Spierer's they are pleading and the people hear are construing it to be something which it may or may not be which is suspicion.

The parents are pleading with her friends to come forward with info. How else would you construe it?

 

[woodpecker2k]

I think we have to remember that on the internet anyone can pretend to be anyone's brother.

True, and I most certainly agree, though the board in question he has been a member of for years and he is well known there on a first-name basis. It is easy enough to follow the trail to his myspace & fb accounts also and everything checks out.

 

[curiousgirl2010]

I think that site talking about Jay's parents, money, photos... is putting too much heat on someone who might be completely innocent.

It's fair to speculate but that site went a little too far, IMO.

I don't think anyone here at WS has gone too far though.

 

[Jupiter812]

I am sure they have. And not one person here unless they were in the apartment looking at the window at the time that JR says he was can know definitively what he could or could not see. As far as brightness even if it appears to be too dark we are talking about someone wearing a white shirt.

Now leasing.....so?

College leases expire July/Aug.

No one has said they "know definitely." This is not a contest. I gather info, I share it. It's that simple.