IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #13

[bessie]

@btown... Could you put the 3:38 reported sighting on the map?
Also, would it be possible to put dotted lines around the cam viewable area at the end of the alley going into the gravel lot behind 5 North College?

I think it would help if we could see where the bartender reports she saw LS and the Dark Man as well as the range of the Cam in that area.

My understanding is that her sighting was closer to one of the N. College Ave openings that connect the Gravel lot to N. College Ave. i don't recall hearing that her report would have placed LS in range of the alley cam or any other cam. (Also still curious why LE would doubt her at all?)

Thanks!

This is what Capt. Qualters had to say about the witness report describing LS with a "mystery man" at the corner of College Ave and 10th at 3:38 am.

He [Qualters] said investigators have reviewed video evidence that does not support that either Spierer or anyone unknown to police was in that area at that time.

He goes on to say video shows LS with a man known to investigators, then:

We have also reviewed it during the time period where it has been reported, essentially an hour later (at 3:38 a.m.), and we do not find any evidence that supports that information,” Qualters said.

He said investigators “do not have any video evidence that supports what had been reported by that particular witness.”

“I can’t say that she didn’t see Lauren,” Qualters continued. “It does not appear that she saw Lauren at the time that was reported by other sources.”

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/22/news.qp-4391232.sto

 

[Walker]

most of us are nowhere near Bloomington so there is nothing we can do that is on the ground. some have retraced steps and posted comments on what they observed. that should come as some comfort to the greiving that complete strangers do care about Lauren and for reasons other than offering unsolicited opinions about who is the biggest creep in Bloomington.

LSs life was not entirely contained in IU. She seems to be the type of person who belongs to many groups; she went away to summer camps, volunteered to help with Habitats for Humanity in New Orleans and also traveled to Israel.

JMO: she may have run away to join some communal group perhaps located near one of the places where she had traveled as a teenager. Where did she stay while she was visiting these places? Maybe some group provided room and board? Did she therefore have connections with some social activist or related orgs?

 

[PurdueMatt]

You all have great ideas. I hope we learn more about the case soon.

Here's my perspective on what happened, BTW I'm a guy in his 20s that went to Purdue in Indiana.

I believe that the circumstantial evidence overwhelmingly points to the BF.

He and Lauren were friends since childhood and he invited her to Indiana University for his fraternity formal while she was still in High School. So she was not just some casual girl to him, I bet they talked a lot about living together in the future.

Then a few weeks ago she meets another guy, and that dream life he always imagined for them starts to crumble apart. Finally, that weekend she hangs out with the new guy instead of him. So while she is partying on a summer weekend with the new guy he is sitting at home by himself probably stewing in his anger at losing her. His friend (I assume) punches the new guy and Lauren chooses yet again to be with the new guy as they walk out of Smallwood. I'm sure the (ex)BF learns what happened soon after. That was probably the last straw of the relationship there.

I doubt there was some abduction or something. I lived on a big college campus for 4 years and most of the crime (theft, fights) is committed by college students on college students. I doubt someone just happened to be driving by at that moment in time and saw Lauren walking there.

Besides I think there is way too much drama (and leads) in the POI group to think that someone else is involved.

I doubt the new guy did anything. Why? Because he was probably on cloud nine that Lauren chose to be with him even after the fight. He was probably excited to be Lauren's (seemingly) new BF.

I think the simplest explanation is usually correct.

Which makes me think...her (ex)BF is now on Long Island. Did the LE take his passport because he is a POI? If not, he could take a short flight to London and be gone forever. If he is named a suspect then the rendition would be difficult because the UK has laws against the rendition of suspects in cases where capital punishment could be used.

I would still like to know what Lauren was doing before her night out. Did she talk with her (ex)BF that day?

 

[Gabby66]

Welcome. I like your post......especially the part about your having attended Purdue. Boiler Up.

 

[jjenny]

New article. Doesn't have much new info. By the way regarding the "new guy-CR." I doubt CR had the presence of mind to be "on cloud nine." From what his roommate claims, CR was put into bed after he got into his apartment, and now he says he doesn't remember anything that went on during the night.

"Within days of the disappearance Fox 59 reported that Rosenbaum hired Voyles, recognized as Indiana’s leading criminal defense attorney, and left Bloomington. Rosenbaum lives in West Bloomfield, Michigan. Ten days ago Fox 59 reported that a person of interest had passed a polygraph examination arranged by his attorney. Voyles’ statement confirms Rosenbaum is that person of interest."
http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-atto...raph-in-spierer-case-20110627,0,3846816.story

 

[VeryVeritas]

I, personally, think it is CRAZY how people have been convicting Jay Rosenbaum.

I mean, he is ONE of 4 named POI's, NONE who have been cleared by LE. What is pointing towards him? Yes, he was the last person to have reported seeing Lauren... but is this really enough for the public to convict a guy?

As far as i know, people here are discussing the facts released by LE and the Media using their minds to analyze that data then with knowledge of human behavior come up with theories that fit the combination, and then trying to poke holes in them... theories that can't be disproved start to look interesting... And while you can't prove a theory, you can prove aspects of it... For example you can observe LS walking on cams and get some idea of how sober her or CR may have been at the time. At least that's my idea of Sleuthing. If you are close to a POI, then of course this process might be irritating and seem insensitive. This isn't a court of law, yet there are rules, but what we are doing is not prosecuting... it's poking, digging, collecting info and analyzing to get closer to the truth. YES, JR IS the last person to SAY they saw LS ALIVE! That fact alone makes him a focal point. But when you combine that with the fact that he is connected to CR/MB/LS/JW/DR and mystery people, you have to ask What is/was the connection? When we analyze EACH of the people involved that night, what do we get? We get basically information that all of these people are involved in Drinking and/or Partying into the wee hours of the morning.
MB clearly said that LS was going to "Party" and then went with JR(by JR's own admission) It is ONLY JR's statement that LS left and walked down 11th turning right on N. College toward Smallwood, that makes stranger abduction a possible theory. If that one statement is a lie, then JR is either a perp or an accomplice in a criminal act even if that act was to cover up an accidental death. IF JR's statement is true, then what you have is something really really odd... You have a roughly 1 block window for either a stranger or someone known to her to abduct her. How could that person be sure she was totally alone? They would have to have either been sitting in wait or magically passing by at just those few seconds that LS would have walked down N. College. between 11th and 10th. Some think this would be JW in a crime of passion. There is nothing I've seen to back that up. It may be possible to refute this JW notion by verifying his location at 4:15 to 4:30 am. And if it were JW, lying in wait, how would he know exactly where to be in exactly that time range? That would also imply a conspiracy with JR. So that would only leave a stranger abduction (as remotely possible as it would seem) that would get JR off the hook.
Yet because of the facts and factors known, stranger abduction seems very unlikely. So, consequently this means JR being involved is very likely. That's not a conviction - it's a shakeout of theories that leaves the whodunit compass pointing back in his direction.

Where is your whodunit compass pointing and why?

 

[Cuoco7]

OT...but I just turned on 48 hours on ID randomly... Topic is major drug ring that was run by unlikely suburban college kids. Interesting because of all our posts here...

 

[VeryVeritas]

I am also interested in what we don't know. How come we know nothing about the supposed JR's friend staying with him (if HT is to be believed). When did that friend arrive? How? By plane? By car? When did he leave? Did LE talk to the friend?

What is known about the mystery friend(s) other than that there seems to now be an admission that someone was actually there at JR's besides LS.
All i know is that it seems to be another person from Michigan.

 

[PaulR]

I think the simplest explanation is usually correct.

If it was that simple, the police would have arrested someone by now.

We get the tricky cases :waitasec:

 

[Mophebius]

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpps/new...ierer-not-talking-dpgonc-20110627-fc_13871698

According to this article JR has been less than cooperative thus far with the investigation. This sentiment was echoed on another article I read today as well. (see if I can find the link)

Meanwhile the article doesn't vindicate MB and CR, but it certainly appears that these two are less suspicious to LE based on cooperation. Is it because they have less to hide than the other POI's perhaps?

 

[VeryVeritas]

Defense strategy question:
When you have a client POI who's under tremendous pressure, there are websites going up about him, his name is filling up chat forums and being documented forever, he's basically been told by the public not to come back to school, his parents have been named and are surely taking heat, reporters are snooping around his hometown, and he could eventually receive threats of violence; at what point do you advise something other than "stay quiet"?

If it was an OD, and given the increasing social banishment, why not point to the body and take the heat while they can still possibly prove it was an OD? What would the charge be, involuntary manslaughter? A crack lawyer can whittle down the hard time on that considerably.

Maybe I'm being amazingly naive here, but which is worse; a lifetime of scorn and suspicion, or taking your punishment and hopefully getting out in time to have a somewhat decent life?

It's a rare event for someone very wealthy to serve time. They spend what it takes... sounds like you aren't knowing about how our criminal justice system really functions? The sad reality is that we lock up the poor, the mentally ill, and those of low intelligence. While those with lots of money and brains, are for the most part able buy their freedom, not with bribes but with the ability to afford lawyers that can run rings around our often mediocre system.

 

[Mophebius]

I know this ahs been posted on here before, but it's been a few days since I was here and I was hoping that somebody could help me out. According to HT, LS was at a party at JR's that night. A party has always suggested to me that there was a large group of people at the house (at least more than a few). I have also wondered where the initial rumors came from about the OD? They had to have come from somewhere right? I mean you dont just assume somebody OD'd when they disappear right?

I have believed since early on that this was a single individual or perhaps 2 individuals that were involved in LS's disappearance. If there was a larger group of people at JR's house that night it could change my perception slightly.

 

[Mophebius]

Anybody ever seen the movie "very bad things"? I'm not suggesting that, that exact senario played out here, but something similar possibly?

 

[PurdueMatt]

If it was that simple, the police would have arrested someone by now.

We get the tricky cases :waitasec:

I understand that. I just think you have to focus on the basics and go with your gut. You have a girl who has met a new man and decided to spend the night with him. Meanwhile her BF (or ex-BF) who has known her for many years sits at home. It looks like the long-term relationship is done and many emotions will probably start to flow.

Some people have suggested LS could have run away, but how probable is that? She is a girl that loved college life to the fullest and was going to begin an internship in a few weeks.

Then some also think an abductor could be involved. But in order for that to happen the abductor would have to have a ton of luck with the timing and all sorts of other things.

If I was investigating I would start with JW and work from there.

 

[VeryVeritas]

This is what Capt. Qualters had to say about the witness report describing LS with a "mystery man" at the corner of College Ave and 10th at 3:38 am.

He goes on to say video shows LS with a man known to investigators, then:


http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/22/news.qp-4391232.sto

Thanks Bessie for posting those links. I'm a bit puzzled still. My understanding from several conversations with btown and seeing photos that btown took of the cam angles, was that the cams at 10th and college do not point to the street, instead up the walkway next to the building. This is why I requested that the location of this witness at 3:38 be put on the map and the viewing areas of the cameras be plotted with dotted lines. It sounds to me like this person was outside of the viewing area of the cams and so that does not mean they are lying, it just means there is no camera evidence to back up her statement. Is there any reason to doubt this person? There is a big difference to me in not being able to verify someone's statement and not finding them credible. There may be other ways to verify if this person is telling the truth.... It could be verified when she left work, and possibly when she got home. If she used her cell phone around that time, etc... If she is seeking attention, etc... and making this stuff up, then she would be in a lot of trouble. If she is telling the truth, her statements conflict with JR's So I think it's important to get to the bottom of it.

 

[VeryVeritas]

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpps/new...ierer-not-talking-dpgonc-20110627-fc_13871698

According to this article JR has been less than cooperative thus far with the investigation. This sentiment was echoed on another article I read today as well. (see if I can find the link)

Meanwhile the article doesn't vindicate MB and CR, but it certainly appears that these two are less suspicious to LE based on cooperation. Is it because they have less to hide than the other POI's perhaps?

So what does JR have to hide?

 

[Mophebius]

Thanks Bessie for posting those links. I'm a bit puzzled still. My understanding from several conversations with btown and seeing photos that btown took of the cam angles, was that the cams at 10th and college do not point to the street, instead up the walkway next to the building. This is why I requested that the location of this witness at 3:38 be put on the map and the viewing areas of the cameras be plotted with dotted lines. It sounds to me like this person was outside of the viewing area of the cams and so that does not mean they are lying, it just means there is no camera evidence to back up her statement. Is there any reason to doubt this person? There is a big difference to me in not being able to verify someone's statement and not finding them credible. There may be other ways to verify if this person is telling the truth.... It could be verified when she left work, and possibly when she got home. If she used her cell phone around that time, etc... If she is seeking attention, etc... and making this stuff up, then she would be in a lot of trouble. If she is telling the truth, her statements conflict with JR's So I think it's important to get to the bottom of it.

I think that if LE thought that this potential witness wasn't being truthful, they would have dismissed her account long ago. I didn't get that at all from the Press conference, LE seemed to speak very carefully of this witness's account. So as to not dismiss it, but rather say that it may very well have happend, just not at the time that the witness suggested that it happend. They also said that the person seen on video with LS, that this witness may have seen is someone known to LE. Is it possible that the witness (who was supposedly shown pictures of 6 or 7 POI's) was wrong about who she saw LS with and the timing, but was otherwise right in her sighting?

 

[bessie]

So I think it's important to get to the bottom of it.

Most definitely.

 

[Mophebius]

So what does JR have to hide?

I wish I knew the answer to that question. Maybe alot? Maybe nothing? Maybe his family forced him to attorney up? I can tell you that this Voyles character would have alot higher retainer fee than any Junior in College I know could afford on their own.

The fact that JR ditched town almost immediatly after LS's disappearance, attorneyed-up with-in 3 days or less and has been less than cooperative in the case is at the very least concerning and drawing "red flags" from more than sleuthing bloggers. IMO

 

[Walker]

I know this ahs been posted on here before, but it's been a few days since I was here and I was hoping that somebody could help me out. According to HT, LS was at a party at JR's that night. A party has always suggested to me that there was a large group of people at the house (at least more than a few). I have also wondered where the initial rumors came from about the OD? They had to have come from somewhere right? I mean you dont just assume somebody OD'd when they disappear right?

I have believed since early on that this was a single individual or perhaps 2 individuals that were involved in LS's disappearance. If there was a larger group of people at JR's house that night it could change my perception slightly.

One odd aspect of this case is how closely it parallels the Morgan Harrington case. The victims' belongings scattered, rumors of OD followed by a panic, "friends" in quotation marks ... If this crime occured in VA, wouldn't we all be considering the unidentified man in the 2005 Fairfax sketch?

LS even looks somewhat like MH.

(Rumor has it that MH was last seen traveling with a group of men in a van -- from an unreliable source).

Is it possible that there is some sick group preying on college students?
Could there be any link between the two victims, however distant they may seem? Both victims were interested in art, fashion, social causes and travel.

Does UI share staff or coordinate programs in any way with UVA/VTech?

JMO: The Fairfax "Sketch" may be a graduate student or professional associated with UVA or VTech.