IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #13

[curiousgirl2010]

Morgan Harrington's friends, who were 100% innocent, acted really similar to how Lauren's friends are acting... they were very quiet and kept living their lives.

I even remember people being upset that her friends posted photos on facebook of them partying on Halloween while Morgan was missing.

 

[TonyGatto]

The argument happened within the 12 minutes that LS and CR were at Smallwood. That is very interesting and tells me that those who hit CR were probably waiting for him (and LS) and already had the motivation to hit him. There probably wasn't a long argument before the first punch was thrown so the person who threw the punches already made up his mind on what he was going to do.

I am hearing that it wasn't actually an "altercation" and that CR "bolted" as soon as he sees these guys. Not sure exactly when he takes the punch. So I think your observation is a good one. The time it took to ride the elevator to the 5th floor -- and then go back down (by stairs or elevator)...makes it look like this all happened VERY QUICKLY. Whether they were lying in wait, or just happened to run into each other, the volatility was instant. This did not "progress" from a verbal argument to a physical altercation. And "altercation" is the wrong word. It seems like it was a one-sided attack. My feeling is that CR ran out of the building and toward home, perhaps with LS following behind. Our vision of them leaving the building should not be two people walking normally shoulder to shoulder. And yes --11 minutes later she is in the alley on video with a man, perhaps CR. For all you folks who are talking drug deal, or even time to make-out, the so-called "activity", remember this is 11 minutes from leaving Smallwood, adreniline is pumping. Just don't know what happened next.

 

[Gabby66]

I don't remember this discussion. By the way, why would she be trying to avoid cameras? And from what I gather from reading msm/blogs, the b/f had a roommate, who went to bed at 2:30 am and didn't hear anything.
It would have to be a very quiet confrontation.

The discussion is somewhere within these threads but it was a while ago. You will have to dig, as I don't remember which thread but it's there. I don't think anyone was suspecting she was "trying to avoid cameras". That thought just wouldn't be sensible. As I remember the theory: as she rounded the corner, she crossed the street, walked down and made a turn (I don't remember those exact details), but it had nothing to do with trying to avoid cameras. It was a very natural, direct route to JW's from what I recall, and the cameras just didn't point to that area so she wouldn't have been picked up. As for a "confrontation", I think you're making an assumption that there was a "confrontation" anywhere. Who knows what happened? There are MANY variables. I'll list a couple, but I'm not saying that any of these are what happened. I'm just open-minded to anything that seems possible at this point, and these are ALL "possible":

1. She OD's at his house - no confrontation. Roommate is asleep. JW leaves quietly in his car to dispose of her. (Assuming of course that he has a car).
2. She OD's at his house, JW awakes his roommate to help with coverup, so roommate is lying.
3. The roommate wasn't even there but is lying to cover for JW.
4. LS is so drunk/drugged that there may not have been much commotion even if a murder occurred....I'd suspect that strangulation would be fairly quiet but who knows?

I'm curious why anyone would give more credence to a "blog" that states the roommate didn't hear anything, after going to bed at 2:30, than say -statements from HT that JR says he saw her leave at 4:30. IMO one is not any more of a credible source than the other. They are both hearsay and until we learn more facts, there are MANY possibilities to which we should remain open.

 

[jjenny]

What was CR doing on the fifth floor to begin with?

 

[holly2325]

I am hearing that it wasn't actually an "altercation" and that CR "bolted" as soon as he sees these guys. Not sure exactly when he takes the punch. So I think your observation is a good one. The time it took to ride the elevator to the 5th floor -- and then go back down (by stairs or elevator)...makes it look like this all happened VERY QUICKLY. Whether they were lying in wait, or just happened to run into each other, the volatility was instant. This did not "progress" from a verbal argument to a physical altercation. And "altercation" is the wrong word. It seems like it was a one-sided attack. My feeling is that CR ran out of the building and toward home, perhaps with LS following behind. Our vision of them leaving the building should not be two people walking normally shoulder to shoulder. And yes --11 minutes later she is in the alley on video with a man, perhaps CR. For all you folks who are talking drug deal, or even time to make-out, the so-called "activity", remember this is 11 minutes from leaving Smallwood, adreniline is pumping. Just don't know what happened next.

Do we know that LS apartment was on the 5th Floor?

 

[TonyGatto]

Bessie says,

"I don't know just how close LS and J R were as friends, but the fact that their grandparents were neighbors for 20 years tells me she would feel a degree of safety and familiarity being with him. And I wonder if something didn't happen to disillusion her and send her out into the street."

Exacly, or maybe due to a long standing relationship between the families JR felt a greater pressure to hide whatever may have happend to LS to save family ties?

HT said that the she used to hang out at JR's all the time last year. Which actually led me to wonder if HT and JR had been bf/gf.

 

[TonyGatto]

Do we know that LS apartment was on the 5th Floor?

Absolutely - fifth floor was the "happening" floor, where all the action is.

 

[TonyGatto]

What was CR doing on the fifth floor to begin with?

Presumably to go into her apartment to do whatever it was they were going to do.

 

[Gabby66]

I am hearing that it wasn't actually an "altercation" and that CR "bolted" as soon as he sees these guys. Not sure exactly when he takes the punch. So I think your observation is a good one. The time it took to ride the elevator to the 5th floor -- and then go back down (by stairs or elevator)...makes it look like this all happened VERY QUICKLY. Whether they were lying in wait, or just happened to run into each other, the volatility was instant. This did not "progress" from a verbal argument to a physical altercation. And "altercation" is the wrong word. It seems like it was a one-sided attack. My feeling is that CR ran out of the building and toward home, perhaps with LS following behind. Our vision of them leaving the building should not be two people walking normally shoulder to shoulder. And yes --11 minutes later she is in the alley on video with a man, perhaps CR. For all you folks who are talking drug deal, or even time to make-out, the so-called "activity", remember this is 11 minutes from leaving Smallwood, adreniline is pumping. Just don't know what happened next.

If he bolted, and she was stumbling drunk, he could have been running down that alley and she could have been coming up behind him with someone else. The person shown on camera may not be CR at all. Also, unless JW was with the boys who punched CR, I think this (if what you say is true) was not about LS. I can't imagine him walking in, seeing a group of boys who are JW's friends, and automatically thinking they were going to hit him. It sounds more like a drug thing - maybe he owed them money. I doubt that the fight had a thing to do with LS - UNLESS it started at the bar, which is very possible. Can you confirm if these boys were at the bar?

Another thing - I had thought I'd read where LS didn't even live on the 5th floor. If that's true, why were they going there?

If this fight had nothing to do with the fact that LS was JW's bf/ex bf and was now with CR, then I think this opens up a whole new theory that perhaps one of these boys had something to do with her abduction or murder. They would know she had left with him. They could have been watching for her to leave. The question would be - WHY? The only thing that I can think of would be if CR owed them money for some big reason (drugs?) and if they wanted to teach him a lesson. I've read rumor that KS was supposedly dating someone new. Maybe CR was that "someone new" and they wanted to get to him. This goes back to what I said a while ago about bigger time drug dealers harming her. (modsnip) (who supposedly punched him in the face). He may have some higher up connections too??

 

[jjenny]

I'm curious why anyone would give more credence to a "blog" that states the roommate didn't hear anything, after going to bed at 2:30, than say -statements from HT that JR says he saw her leave at 4:30. IMO one is not any more of a credible source than the other. They are both hearsay and until we learn more facts, there are MANY possibilities to which we should remain open.

I don't believe there is any way police are basing 4:30 am time on hearsay from HT. So I am not giving more credence to hearsay from HT. Police had put the 4:30 am time and location onto the official map, so I am fairly certain police had to get that timeline directly from an witness.
By the way I fail to see any reason whatsoever for the b/f to dispose of the body in case of OD. He wasn't partying with her that night, so he couldn't have given her any substance. Which means he had no reason to not call 911.

 

[PurdueMatt]

We do not know that, at 21, he had a dream life made up in his mind. We dont know that JW was stewing in anger or even knew what was going on. The fact is: We do not have anything close to enough information to say one of the POI's has "overwhelming" evidence against them.

But remember that LS and JW knew each other for years, this was not a typically college relationship, they were friends since they were kids. It seems like he had a lot invested in their relationship (flying her out to Indiana for his fraternity formal). So I bet when he heard LS was with another guy many emotions came to him.

 

[curiousgirl2010]

BTW - VERY rich UVA college student in jail for the past 13 months for killing his girlfriend.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/local/2011/05/huguely-sits-jail-lax-team-reaches-final-four

Rich kids do go to jail. Come on.

 

[Gabby66]

Absolutely - fifth floor was the "happening" floor, where all the action is.

I don't mean this to sound sassy (I'm TRULY curious). Does "Absolutely" mean that you are you making an assumption that her apartment is on the 5th floor b/c it was also the "happening" floor, or that you have confirmation that they are one in the same? I ask because I was pretty sure that I read somewhere that her apartment wasn't on the 5th floor, even though that's where the action took place. I'm curious why she would be there if this wasn't where she lived.

Also CR's "bolting" now makes even more sense. It's been reported that she didn't enter her apartment. I always questioned why. She had on no shoes and if she wanted to protect CR, you'd think she'd just take him into her apartment. Now it makes sense to me that maybe she ran out quickly to chase after him, after he bolted.

 

[jjenny]

Presumably to go into her apartment to do whatever it was they were going to do.

But was she living on the fifth floor? I've seen it suggested she wasn't living on the fifth floor, but that must be incorrect?

 

[TonyGatto]

But was she living on the fifth floor? I've seen it suggested she wasn't living on the fifth floor, but that must be incorrect?

Well if you've seen differently, then I'll back off my assertion of absolutely. But everything I've been told is that she lived on the 5th fl.

 

[jjenny]

Well if you've seen differently, then I'll back off my assertion of absolutely. But everything I've been told is that she lived on the 5th fl.

I've seen it suggested here on websleuths (that she was not living on fifth floor) but obviously without any supporting evidence.
That would make more sense if she did live on the fifth floor.

 

[Gabby66]

I don't believe there is any way police are basing 4:30 am time on hearsay from HT. So I am not giving more credence to hearsay from HT. Police had put the 4:30 am time and location onto the official map, so I am fairly certain police had to get that timeline directly from an witness.
By the way I fail to see any reason whatsoever for the b/f to dispose of the body in case of OD. He wasn't partying with her that night, so he couldn't have given her any substance. Which means he had no reason to not call 911.

I tend to agree with you that they are using that timeline of 4:30 more likely b/c of a witness report, than from HT, so let me rephrase my question:

Why would anyone give more credence to a "blog" statement that indicates JW's roommate was sleeping at 2:30 and didn't hear anything, than to a WITNESS statement that she left at 4:30?

As you pointed out, LE is probably basing the 4:30 time on an actual witness statement. If true, someone presumably CLAIMS to have seen her leaving his house at 4:30. The claim that JW's was at home was mentioned in a blog. I've read many things in blogs that I feel likely have at least some truth, but they're certainly not a highly credible source. I don't necessarily think that a witness is either (especially one who was reportedly the last person to see her who would certainly want to state that he saw her leaving). However, I'm just not sure why some people have so much trouble remain open to multiple possibilities. If they didn't exist, this case might already be closed.

 

[mamamia54]

It would seem that something had to occur at Kilroy's that led to CR and LS leaving in the first place that was so distracting as to have her leave her shoes and cell phone, other than drinking. JMHO

 

[TonyGatto]

I've seen it suggested here on websleuths (that she was not living on fifth floor) but obviously without any supporting evidence.
That would make more sense if she did live on the fifth floor.

But if my info is wrong, and with all these posts, Im starting to think it is, well that begs the question: What business did CR have on the 5th floor? Remember, we still don't know where in the building LS is. We don't know whether she's in the 5th floor punch video. All we know is LS is in at 230 and out at 2:40.

 

[Gabby66]

It would seem that something had to occur at Kilroy's that led to CR and LS leaving in the first place that was so distracting as to have her leave her shoes and cell phone, other than drinking. JMHO

Yes, I tend to think this is true. But then I go back to the rumor that she was asked to leave the bar, even though I've read other statements from people at the bar who say otherwise. Maybe she was asked to leave the bar b/c of a fight/loud argument/commotion. I guess I'd think that would have been leaked already though. Having said that, there are LOTS of things that I think would have been leaked by now, which haven't.