IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #13

[mamamia54]

I am also interested in what we don't know. How come we know nothing about the supposed JR's friend staying with him (if HT is to be believed). When did that friend arrive? How? By plane? By car? When did he leave? Did LE talk to the friend?

Sigh, me too. Or was the landfill checked and if not, why? Were the dumpsters checked before the 7th? I can go on and on.

 

[jennyb629]

I think we need to make a list of everything that we know as fact.

I agree-though not necessarily volunteering to do so myself Actually...it might be a pretty short list considering how few 'facts' we really know.

 

[mamamia54]

I agree-though not necessarily volunteering to do so myself Actually...it might be a pretty short list considering how few 'facts' we really know.

And really, even if we do that, to me the timeline should end the last place LS was seen on video, and shouldn't be extended to the 4:30am time.

 

[ingra1327]

I agree-though not necessarily volunteering to do so myself Actually...it might be a pretty short list considering how few 'facts' we really know.

Exactly, the facts are few. The speculation is so high and can go in any direction, as we have seen for days on WS. What facts about that night do we have other than the video evidence? Can we say that JR seeing Lauren leave at 4:30 am is a fact? Is it a fact that CR arrived with Lauren and was tucked in by MB?...

 

[Glaucon]

Another questions about wrongful death came up and whether a body was necessary. A body is not necessary, but there has to be evidence that a death occurrred. A witness seeing a death occurr, blood, or evidence of injury or bodily harm could lead a civil jury to infer that a death occurred. Here, I havent seen in the public domain any evidence that either death or bodily harm that could lead to death occurred.

Very informative, thank you.

 

[kissdegirl]

Again my thanks to longtime local for going and taking this photo and uploading it for all of us to see..

I also wanted to ensure that it is known as a FACT that long time local has told us THERE WAS NO FLASH USED.. she used her tripod and took this excellent photo representing probably as close to what the view was that very night/morning when JR supposedly watched Lauren round the corner of 11th/College..

So, in now knowing for a fact that there was no flash used it does completely negate the information that in using a flash it actually would make the corner area seem even darker or less visible.. This is not relevant and is not accurate in the least in speaking of the ^above^ photo.. Again longtime local used NO FLASH!!

If anything the lighting of this shown in this photo(again with NO FLASH USED) would most likely be greater than the actual lighting at the time LS supposedly was seen rounding the corner.. Why? Because just as has been thoroughly discussed at this time the phase was a new moon, where basically there is no moonlight available.. Therefor at the actual time and date that Jason Rosenbaum claims that he watched Lauren walk to and round the corner onto College Ave would have been even darker and even less visible than what LTL's photo even represents.. Which in studying it is apparent that even on a night where moonlight is available and therefor giving us more visibility.. Obviously it still is quite clear and most agree that the strong likelihood is apparent that Jason Rosenbaum's "claim" to have visually seen Lauren round this same exact corner is highly unlikely(and that is withOUT bringing in to question that he could have seen her from a window when here ^above^ shows us the view from standing outside of the townhome on the sidewalk with a dead ahead view)..

Thanks again LTL..

Got it, there was no flash. :slap: I only said that because I thought it was a flash from the camera that reflected on the sign in the distance (thinking incorrectly that the only reason you could see the sign at night was because of a reflection from the flash). That's not the case, I got it, not a big deal. :banghead:
Doesn't change my opinion about the view that night, which I think at least some of us are in agreement on? Flash or no flash, I don't think it's possible anyone but an owl could have seen her from JR's apt all the way to the corner. :cow:

 

[jennyb629]

Exactly, the facts are few. The speculation is so high and can go in any direction, as we have seen for days on WS. What facts about that night do we have other than the video evidence? Can we say that JR seeing Lauren leave at 4:30 am is a fact? Is it a fact that CR arrived with Lauren and was tucked in by MB?...

It gets to the point where I don't even necessarily trust the 'facts' as provided by MSM or LE. I keep telling myself there is no reason to keep coming back to these threads because there won't be any new information, but I can't help it. Like someone else said earlier: hope dies last. I guess intrigue and trust in the authorities/media are tied for dying second to last.

 

[Barry]

There is a usefulness to talking through the same thoughts and ideas. Sometimes, someone will post something in a somewhat different way than before, and things will all of a sudden click.

 

[mamamia54]

There is a usefulness to talking through the same thoughts and ideas. Sometimes, someone will post something in a somewhat different way than before, and things will all of a sudden click.

I agree with you somewhat, however it would be useful to know what areas the searches have covered because it's just possible that some of us might be able to help and have done so in other cases, or at least attempted it. LE tends to discount online research as help.

 

[ingra1327]

Got it, there was no flash. :slap: I only said that because I thought it was a flash from the camera that reflected on the sign in the distance (thinking incorrectly that the only reason you could see the sign at night was because of a reflection from the flash). That's not the case, I got it, not a big deal. :banghead:
Doesn't change my opinion about the view that night, which I think at least some of us are in agreement on? Flash or no flash, I don't think it's possible anyone but an owl could have seen her from JR's apt all the way to the corner. :cow:

I agree, I can only see a little past the end of the block/apartment building. I delivered newpapers in the dark for years and remember that looking down a dark street the only areas you can see are those under a street light/porch light, the areas outside of direct light are completely obscured and there are so many shadows. This after having your eyes adjusted to the dark. I also think it's possible someone could have grabbed her from a shadowy area.

 

[Blythe]

Seemingly happy young woman leaves her apartment carrying a wrap and wearing shoes. Within 2 hours she lacks her shoes and has left behind a cellphone. She walks back from Sports to her apartment complex with an acquaintance. An altercation occurs between a group and the acquaintance, who is punched. The young woman does not enter her apartment and proceeds to the complex of the acquaintance. She is last seen in an alleyway not far from where her keys and small purse are spotted by several passers by later that evening. Within three hours of leaving her apartment she has lost cellphone, shoes and keys/purse. She has been missing since.

 

[Moreack]

It gets to the point where I don't even necessarily trust the 'facts' as provided by MSM or LE. I keep telling myself there is no reason to keep coming back to these threads because there won't be any new information, but I can't help it. Like someone else said earlier: hope dies last.

I've been doing the same thing for the past few weeks. Coming back to the last post of these threads hoping for new news and trying to keep up. I think that "someone" knows what happened and where LS is. I hope the truth comes out soon so LS's family and loved ones can have some closure or that LS comes back alive. What is happening and has happened is crazy. If one/some of her friends knows what happened, I completely understand not wanting to come forth and "ruining" the rest of your life, but come on, it's time. Where is Lauren?

 

[bessie]

There is a usefulness to talking through the same thoughts and ideas. Sometimes, someone will post something in a somewhat different way than before, and things will all of a sudden click.

That's so true, Barry. I've seen it many times. That's why it's important, imo, to remain open to different opinions and perspectives.

 

[Faulkner]

Thanks to anybody who gave me real advice. I only posted what I posted elsewhere in the first place because it was a section of a message board that you had to be registered to view, consisting mostly of people whom I know personally, and I certainly didn't think things would get this far. I will definitely be keeping my mouth shut in the future. Thanks to everybody else for adding to the ordeal and doing exactly nothing to help, though. You couldn't possibly know what it's like to be in a situation like this unless you've been there, so I kind of forgive you, but really people, get a life. I'm certainly living mine.

Also, to anybody speaking negatively of JW, he is the nicest, most genuine kid in the world and will be forever and irrevocably damaged by this, no matter what the outcome is. You couldn't know this either, so I'm just going to leave it at that.

Just so you’re aware, I viewed four threads on that site regarding Lauren’s disappearance without ever registering. Things have gotten where they tend to get on the Internet which is why it is a good idea to be circumspect about things on the World Wide Web that one wishes to keep private or relatively private.

When I first responded to you I didn’t think of that aspect but when I saw what elmosmom said I immediately realized that as very sage advice and it’s good of you to acknowledge it as such. Turning around and then insulting people here certainly doesn’t help anything, though, I don’t believe.

There are members who post here who have suffered tragedies and whose hearts are irretrievably broken by those losses. They hear about missing persons cases in the news and want to be an advocate for that person and devote care and concern long after cases are frigidly cold and barely attenuated by the authorities. Everyone has their own definition of life and I don’t believe anyone has the right to tell anyone else what their personal definition of living it should encompass.

And I’ll just leave it with the sentiment that the one person’s and family’s life who will most assuredly be irrevocably affected is, of course, the life of Lauren Spierer and the Spierer family and my feeling is that people are here for Lauren and saddened over the potential loss of Lauren's life first, last and consistently.

Take care.

 

[Glaucon]

Defense strategy question:
When you have a client POI who's under tremendous pressure, there are websites going up about him, his name is filling up chat forums and being documented forever, he's basically been told by the public not to come back to school, his parents have been named and are surely taking heat, reporters are snooping around his hometown, and he could eventually receive threats of violence; at what point do you advise something other than "stay quiet"?

If it was an OD, and given the increasing social banishment, why not point to the body and take the heat while they can still possibly prove it was an OD? What would the charge be, involuntary manslaughter? A crack lawyer can whittle down the hard time on that considerably.

Maybe I'm being amazingly naive here, but which is worse; a lifetime of scorn and suspicion, or taking your punishment and hopefully getting out in time to have a somewhat decent life?

 

[mamamia54]

I feel that LE is doing a very good job on this case, but I feel that we really need more information to go on, and we just aren't going to be privy to what they already know. I suppose since they have nothing new, the pressers needed to be taken away, however I wish they hadn't been for those who still reside in Bloomington.

 

[Blythe]

Defense strategy question:
When you have a client POI who's under tremendous pressure, there are websites going up about him, his name is filling up chat forums and being documented forever, he's basically been told by the public not to come back to school, his parents have been named and are surely taking heat, reporters are snooping around his hometown, and he could eventually receive threats of violence; at what point do you advise something other than "stay quiet"?

If it was an OD, and given the increasing social banishment, why not point to the body and take the heat while they can still possibly prove it was an OD? What would the charge be, involuntary manslaughter? A crack lawyer can whittle down the hard time on that considerably.

Maybe I'm being amazingly naive here, but which is worse; a lifetime of scorn and suspicion, or taking your punishment and hopefully getting out in time to have a somewhat decent life?

Why is redemption so underrated?

 

[elmomom]

Defense strategy question:
When you have a client POI who's under tremendous pressure, there are websites going up about him, his name is filling up chat forums and being documented forever, he's basically been told by the public not to come back to school, his parents have been named and are surely taking heat, reporters are snooping around his hometown, and he could eventually receive threats of violence; at what point do you advise something other than "stay quiet"?

If it was an OD, and given the increasing social banishment, why not point to the body and take the heat while they can still possibly prove it was an OD? What would the charge be, involuntary manslaughter? A crack lawyer can whittle down the hard time on that considerably.

Maybe I'm being amazingly naive here, but which is worse; a lifetime of scorn and suspicion, or taking your punishment and hopefully getting out in time to have a somewhat decent life?

But what if the POI really has no more information and the lynch mob swirling around him already has him convicted? Then what does the lawyer advise?

In the first scenario (he has info), the lawyer cannot tell him to come forward unless he volunteers that he knows something. Attys will usually not ask their client if they are in fact guilty. They should advise him that the outcome will be better if he goes the route of accidental death and cover-up if he volunteers the info to LE. Maybe. But if the atty KNOWS he has info because client told him, then it is his duty to use that info in a way best for his client (i.e. strike a deal with LE).
If the atty doesn't know his client has info, and cannot get client to volunteer that he does, my guess is he does what this atty is doing. Keep the client safe (quiet) and stay abreast of the new details. And wait and see.

 

[kissdegirl]

I agree, I can only see a little past the end of the block/apartment building. I delivered newpapers in the dark for years and remember that looking down a dark street the only areas you can see are those under a street light/porch light, the areas outside of direct light are completely obscured and there are so many shadows. This after having your eyes adjusted to the dark. I also think it's possible someone could have grabbed her from a shadowy area.

I think about someone grabbing her too. From the photos Btown posted, it seems there were more than 1 area where someone could just be waiting. I can't find the link anymore, but I know it's out there somewhere, but it was of a team of searchers walking her path in the dark from Smallwood to the 5 North Apts. It was just sooooo dark. I need to find that video. It put so much in perspective for me, just about the walk itself and the darkness of the areas she was that night.

For me also, I keep going over why LE won't release any images of her in the alley with CR? I don't know why they won't just show it. Were they not alone? Were they followed? Was she unconscious? What was going on. It seems there was possible bad blood between CR and whoever punched him at Smallwood. It's anyone's guess why. Maybe history with the guy, who knows. I just wonder if someone could have been so angry that even after the punch they wanted to do more...and followed them. Then saw LS go to JR's and waited, and waited, and waited.

 

[curiousgirl2010]

I, personally, think it is CRAZY how people have been convicting Jay Rosenbaum.

I mean, he is ONE of 4 named POI's, NONE who have been cleared by LE. What is pointing towards him? Yes, he was the last person to have reported seeing Lauren... but is this really enough for the public to convict a guy?