IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #14

[Azimuth]

TonyGatto, I agree with you 100%.

 

[Blythe]

Whoa now, I am in no way trying to flash an argument, I am just merely suggesting that we are about to see a very big shift in the 'mood' of this investigation. Just my opinion, of course. Even the images they have chosen; everything. It is to present a completely innocent college woman. I agree alcohol and drugs do not make people disappear, but it would not have happened had Lauren Spierer learned an appropriate lesson from her prior run-ins with the law. Again, just my opinion.

You sound like my kids' mother! I have a real problem with the drug culture but this just isn't useful in this forum. We can not dismiss the victim. Besides, it is the possible body disposal which is the biggest issue here. There are many ODs but typically the body is found. Why has she disappeared? As Cluciano says we may discover that her state of intoxication is directly responsible for her very disappearance but we don't know that now.

(You'd probably make a great son, - eagle scout?)

 

[Cuoco7]

This is regarding an abduction theory. So suppose she leaves jr's crosses 10th and takes a left to head to jw's. Maybe a possible abduction from those different route possibilities. Forgive me if this has been posted, but any surveillance should be assessed from any of those possible routes. I guess I should look into the Bloomington website of surveillance or Btown's map before I post, but I'm hoping someone has some insight or has maybe walked these various routes. I mapquested the different routes based on walking and obviously there are several ways to go. So maybe this could be another option... Leaves jr's takes a path to see jw and meets with a random car or individual in that area.

"Revised. this is from elmomom BBM. I couldn't get the quote box to work!
Current theories of the case, in order rof what seems to be believed here:
1. JR (possibly with friend that is visiting from home) are responsible for hiding deceased LS
2. LS leaves JR intact, meets up with JW, harm comes to her
3. LS leaves JR intact, goes missing (random abduction or lost in unknown accident)
4. LS leaves JR and/or JR residence, meets another person, possibly at College and 10th, harm comes to her (this may include non-random abduction)
5. LS never makes it to 5 North, and CR/MB/JR in conspiracy
6. LS leaves voluntarily

So, other than differing details in the above, does anyone have a theory that doesn't fit one of the above? Please comment and I will add it, thanks!"

 

[cluciano63]

But we can hang JR, JW and maybe even CR and DR at will.

I take into consideration that she was young, and it pains me that her parents have to hear this stuff, but Lauren's condition, how much she had to drink, what drugs she may have taken, are very important to the investigation and to an honest account of the story. I do not judge her, believe me, that could have been me, I have partied a lot worse in my day. But you can't hide your head in the sand either.

And that goes to the 3:38am witness, because she is the one who has given the most vivid description of Lauren's condition. I could see why some people just don't want to believe what she is saying -- and I'm not talking about the timeline.

I have no problem believing that Lauren was wasted...all signs point to this being the case...just that I believe LE has it (this carrying/slung over shoulder event) on tape at a different time. Not to say it couldn't have happened twice that night, very little about this night would surprise me now, except for Lauren being safe and alive someplace...

 

[curiousgirl2010]

I still don't think this is a OD/hide body story. I don't believe that theory at all.

IMO, it is either a stranger perp or one of the POI's purposedly hurt Lauren.

No matter the degree of intoxication, youR friend is passing out, you dial 911. You drop her on a hospital. They are rich kids. They can get a lawyer for drug use. Definetly better than having to fight murder charges. This is all MOO.

 

[cluciano63]

The cat is out of the bag, as far as partying activities at IU, I'd say, as it applies to these POI's. So LE should just give them immunity on anything related to drugs and alcohol, if they need to, and let them try their stories all over again, JMO...

 

[elmomom]

A few days ago... (and of course I am so overwhelmed with links that I can't find it) I read a story about some annual music festival held in May or June in Detroit. Well, apparently a bunch of bad ecstasy caused a death or two.
One of the wild cards in this scenario is the supposed guest staying with JR. We only have one mention (from HT, not always accurate) and no confirmation when LE was asked on Friday. Anyhow, the Detroit connection is possible.

 

[jabberwocky]

Thanks!

I don't see anyone caring plastic bags of evidence. Does anyone know what kind of dog this is and if one type is better than another for certain types of searches? Is this a border collie? They are used for both drug-sniffing and cadaver detection from what I read.

I could be mistaken, but it appears to be a belgian malinois.... and that breed of dog are often trained to detect human remains.

 

[TonyGatto]

This is regarding an abduction theory. So suppose she leaves jr's crosses 10th and takes a left to head to jw's. Maybe a possible abduction from those different route possibilities. Forgive me if this has been posted, but any surveillance should be assessed from any of those possible routes. I guess I should look into the Bloomington website of surveillance or Btown's map before I post, but I'm hoping someone has some insight or has maybe walked these various routes. I mapquested the different routes based on walking and obviously there are several ways to go. So maybe this could be another option... Leaves jr's takes a path to see jw and meets with a random car or individual in that area.

"Revised. this is from elmomom BBM. I couldn't get the quote box to work!
Current theories of the case, in order rof what seems to be believed here:
1. JR (possibly with friend that is visiting from home) are responsible for hiding deceased LS
2. LS leaves JR intact, meets up with JW, harm comes to her
3. LS leaves JR intact, goes missing (random abduction or lost in unknown accident)
4. LS leaves JR and/or JR residence, meets another person, possibly at College and 10th, harm comes to her (this may include non-random abduction)
5. LS never makes it to 5 North, and CR/MB/JR in conspiracy
6. LS leaves voluntarily

So, other than differing details in the above, does anyone have a theory that doesn't fit one of the above? Please comment and I will add it, thanks!"

Once you get east of walnut is almost all residential...i guess 10th st would be the best chance of a camera. as usual, i defer to the locals.

 

[threepisces]

But we can hang JR, JW and maybe even CR and DR at will.

I take into consideration that she was young, and it pains me that her parents have to hear this stuff, but Lauren's condition, how much she had to drink, what drugs she may have taken, are very important to the investigation and to an honest account of the story. I do not judge her, believe me, that could have been me, I have partied a lot worse in my day. But you can't hide your head in the sand either.

And that goes to the 3:38am witness, because she is the one who has given the most vivid description of Lauren's condition. I could see why some people just don't want to believe what she is saying -- and I'm not talking about the timeline.

Of course her condition is important to the story. And there are probably lessons to be learned for IU and IU students. But as you said, that is different from judging her innocence in her own disappearance or murder when we have no idea what happened to her.

 

[threepisces]

Once you get east of walnut is almost all residential...i guess 10th st would be the best chance of a camera. as usual, i defer to the locals.

I could check it out at some point, but yeah, it is very unlikely she came near a camera. Could be possible that there would be one near the museum across from JW's place I guess.

 

[elmomom]

re: discussing her condition that night...
We don't know what drugs she was doing. I have seen people go from a catatonic state to relatively functional within an hour. I'd prefer not to name the drug I equate that with, suffice it to say it isn't Xanax. But, the half life of Xanax, which has been rumored, is long, so if it were Xanax and booze then the scenario of comatose at 3:38 and walking at 4:30 is more suspect. But do not underestimate an hour of doing lines at JRs as a possibility. And in fact, maybe the <modsnip> (sadly misinformed person who give it to her) thought it was what she needed.

 

[Skigirl]

I know the question was for elmomom, but I'd like to offer a theory.

I think it's plausible that LS would've have attempted the walk to JW's. The night started to out to be fun, but it took a turn for the worse when the fight broke out at Smallwood. Any young woman would've been shaken by that. CR's in bad shape, and she has to help him home. She's not comfortable there, so she decides to go back to JR's. She's lost her phone, shoes, and keys, and she needs to regroup, talk to someone about what happened. Their grandparents were neighbors for 20 years, and even if he was not a close friend, I think he offered a sense of familiarity and safety. But it doesn't turn out that way. Maybe he's loaded, not being helpful. He might've even tried to come on to her. For whatever reason, she doesn't want to be there. She feels sick, tired, and just wants to be home, somewhere safe. DR doesn't answer, so she can't get in her apartment. Maybe she can make it to JW's. After all, she really does love him, and he's the only person who can comfort her now.

Sorry, I'm sort of late to the party in quoting this post. Your theory sounds so plausible, except when I think about her decision to call DR. Why, if she borrowed a phone to call DR, she didn't also call JW right after that? She supposedly made the call at 4:15 and didn't leave until 4:30, so it isn't like JR shoved her out the door immediately. In that time, she could have placed a call to JW from the same phone. Why didn't she? Why didn't she attempt to reach anyone else, even if you believe her roommates wouldn't have been sympathetic, wasn't there anyone?

If I didn't think I could get into my apartment, I would have called my boyfriend to pick me up, or at least to tell him I was on my way so that he'd be awake and let me in. Afterall, it may only be a ten minute walk, but the prospect of a ten minute walk after a long night, in the dark, with no shoes, money, keys, and no cell phone, would make me want to be absolutely sure I knew I'd be able to get inside when I got whereever I was going. In her shoes I might have taken the chance of walking alone to a specific location, but I wouldn't in a million years have taken the chance that I'd have to wander around alone barefoot for the rest of the night/early morning.

 

[curiousgirl2010]

I take Xanax daily for an anxiety disorder and would NEVER mix it with alcohol. I'm 24 and never had more than a glass of alcohol in my life. What are these kids thinking? I party, I have fun, I go out on the weekends... but what's the fun on getting intoxicated and caught by the police?

People say I will the fact that I never got drunk when I'm older... I honestly doubt it. I love my life and do not need alcohol to enhance it.

I do NOT understand why kids my age need to drink so much... and mix alcohol with drugs and xanax? It's deadly.

IF Lauren did, indeed, mix those substances, she was definetly playing Russian roulette with her life. Specially with a heart condition... I hate blaming the victim, but I agree with those that say the situation could have been prevented.

Lauren didn't deserve to dissapear, but she sure exposed herself to a lot of danger.

Young people need to understand that excessive drinking is NOT ok or cool...

 

[elmomom]

Young people need to understand that excessive drinking is NOT ok or cool...

No it isn't ok, but it is pervasive in college campus life. Add to that, it is well documented that the brain is not mature at 18-22, and one of the most common symptoms of that is not having appropriate risk aversion. This age group is notorious for taking risks. That can be influenced by upbringing and responsibilities, but it is a fact of the normal process of maturation just the same.

 

[Darcyline]

It is an eye-opening experience to read these forums or internet articles and see what they have to say about these kids. I feel like I had a similar group of friends that, similarly, sometimes drank and experimented too much. I cannot imagine how it would feel to hear some of the things people are saying if something had happened to one of us.
In general, even college students who drink a bit too much sometimes or experiment with drugs are generally good kids. Doing that doesn't mean you are a horrible person. Out of our group, most of us grew up and became something-loving mothers and fathers, award winning teachers, social workers who genuinely care, etc. Lauren may never get that chance to grow up and become a loving mother, a teacher, a fashion designer-whatever she could have become. That is what is sad to me and that is what I am going to focus on.

I am not denying that she took risks that people shouldn't take, but I won't judge her either. Or any of the POI's really-UNLESS they somehow hurt Lauren. Then my non-judgment/sympathy will be immediately revoked.

 

[curiousgirl2010]

It is an eye-opening experience to read these forums or internet articles and see what they have to say about these kids. I feel like I had a similar group of friends that, similarly, sometimes drank and experimented too much. I cannot imagine how it would feel to hear some of the things people are saying if something had happened to one of us.
In general, even college students who drink a bit too much sometimes or experiment with drugs are generally good kids. Doing that doesn't mean you are a horrible person. Out of our group, most of us grew up and became something-loving mothers and fathers, award winning teachers, social workers who genuinely care, etc. Lauren may never get that chance to grow up and become a loving mother, a teacher, a fashion designer-whatever she could have become. That is what is sad to me and that is what I am going to focus on.

I am not denying that she took risks that people shouldn't take, but I won't judge her either. Or any of the POI's really-UNLESS they somehow hurt Lauren. Then my non-judgment/sympathy will be immediately revoked.

I completely agree with not judging the POI's as murderers and about good people drinking a lot. I have a few friends who drink VERY heavily and still have the kindest hearts. Still, I don't find like excessive drinking should be considered normal or safe. It is not.

 

[elmomom]

The last thing I want to do is get involved in a morality issue or discussion here. I did say one thing, and whether or not you like it , it is the truth. Excessive risk taking is normal in this age group. I never said excessive (binge) drinking should be considered "normal". It is a symptom. Now, it is up to society as a whole to figure out ways to keep young adults safe and away from excessive drinking, since their risk of indulging in this behavior is higher than average.

 

[elmomom]

I know I am setting myself to get depressed, but I am anxious to hear what the family says in their statement tomorrow. I really hope that it is news, or some sort of movement. Or at least hope that there will be news, or movement. Something.

 

[The Smurf]

It's pretty clear that at least some extent of drinking and/or drug use was a part of the night LS went missing. Obviously, if we find out that LS overdosed and the body was hidden, she takes on a large portion of the responsibility for her own death. But, at this point all we have is a missing girl and a completely wrecked set of parents. Even if she OD'd, it does not change the fact that she was their child and probably had a long, happy life to lead. A lot of us have done stuff during college that probably put our lives to some degree of risk. It wouldnt make this any less sad for those involved. If it was an OD we then have a group of horribly selfish people who put her parents thru hell to save themselves.