IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #14

[Walker]

Good question. According to JR did she have her keys when she left him or did he give her his credit card so she could break into Smallwood when she got there.

The roommates? Maybe they have an intercom?

 

[akh]

Random speculation ahead-
What if police aren't really discounting the 3:38AM sighting? What if they are being so vague about it because they don't want the PsOI to know their timeline has been blown?

Maybe they do or don't know the Mystery Man even but don't want the PsOI using the opportunity to fill in some blanks and implicate the Mystery Man as a stranger to them that must've done something. JR already has a problem if he wants to decide he was confused about her leaving at 4:30AM and would want to switch that to 3:30AM because (we think) there's a 4:15AM phone call that he's explained was LS using his phone.

IOW.... They are just giving the guys some rope and hoping they hang themselves with it.

If the 3:38AM witness is credible as it appears this person is, it would mean that police know the guys' stories are all very suspect but still wouldn't tie them actually what had happened. It also wouldn't necessarily mean all 3, or 4(DR), or 5 (JR guest) would be involved. But it would mean that any story that has her walking home less than 60 minutes later is suspect to say the least.

As for body disposal, someone here said the dumpsters at the apartments are picked up Friday mornings (has that been confirmed?). You'd think anyone living in the apartments would know that and would feel fairly confident nobody would be searching for her until much later in the day after the dumpsters were emptied. Even not knowing that, they might not even have cared if the body was found in the dumpster, even expected it, but instead were just wanting the body out of their place figuring they'd just say something must've happened after leaving their place. Maybe planned to blame it on a mystery homeless guy or something. But then ultimately didn't have to if the police didn't followup soon enough on the possibility they had a potential body taken to the landfill scenario.

 

[dlh10]

was there something about LS & CR walk to 5 North where it took them a long to get get to a certain part,, like they walked out of smallwood and it tool them 7 mins to get to the ally? sorry I know the is vague

 

[cluciano63]

LE is never really "prepared" for a missing persons case, mostly because they are all so different. But I believe LE is doing the basic things in this case, and that searches that are being done this week are probably based on specifics, since they did say they were entering a new phase of the investigation a few days ago. I can't find any reason to believe they had never searched these places before, or cars that they have been able to identify and locate. And I believe they are getting cell and computer records, probably have some ,and are awaiting others. Some of that stuff not only takes time to obtain but also to analyze. In Kyron's case, they were doing searches 8 months later that seemed to have been based, at least in part, on interpreting cell phone data.(In fact, they still seem to be examing records and data more than a year later, frustratingly...) If they don't get the right records quickly, there is no magic way for LE to find out who was where when.

 

[elmomom]

IMHO the comments from police and family lead me to believe that neither one of those interested parties believes a stranger-on-stranger abduction is the most likely scenario and I just have to believe that they have a lot more information then the public has on the matter. If they thought it a stranger it would seem odd that nearly 30 days after LS went missing and the general search being called off, they would be going back to the residences of POIs with dogs?

If it does turn out to be a stranger abduction I would find the past comments of LE and the family perplexing to say the least as they have have imho opinion made no effort to hide their feelings about the 'friends', which then puts in minds of most people that the friends know something and instead of having the public looking at the odd next door neighbor or the guy that didn't turn up for work that morning. No, instead the family is disappointed in the friends and the Cap. McQualters is perplexed by them - that has been the takeaway from the press conferences recently.

Again, this is all my imho, but I just don't see stranger abduction here.

I can reconcile the family and LE comments about the friends even if it is a stranger abduction. It's obvious, and has been obvious from the get-go that they are presenting a story line that is a little odd, and unbelievable. And pretty early on, most of us felt they were likely covering themselves - not necessarily about what happened to LS, but maybe about what was going on that night (illegal drugs, booze etc). We know that these kids party, big-time. Please look at the pictures up on TGs site if you think this is still just rumor. In any case, if LE/family is still getting nonsense from them or nothing at all, it could still be them covering the illegal events, rather than what happened to LS. If they can't get the real story, they may not be able to tell if it were an abduction or not. I hope I'm making sense... it's late...

 

[jjenny]

Yet they reportedly searched both JW's and CR/MB's apartments. That doesn't suggest they even have a main theory at this point, because they are not concentrating on any specific POI.

 

[northsider]

Random speculation ahead-
What if police aren't really discounting the 3:38AM sighting? What if they are being so vague about it because they don't want the PsOI to know their timeline has been blown?

Maybe they do or don't know the Mystery Man even but don't want the PsOI using the opportunity to fill in some blanks and implicate the Mystery Man as a stranger to them that must've done something. JR already has a problem if he wants to decide he was confused about her leaving at 4:30AM and would want to switch that to 3:30AM because (we think) there's a 4:15AM phone call that he's explained was LS using his phone.

IOW.... They are just giving the guys some rope and hoping they hang themselves with it.

If the 3:38AM witness is credible as it appears this person is, it would mean that police know the guys' stories are all very suspect but still wouldn't tie them actually what had happened. It also wouldn't necessarily mean all 3, or 4(DR), or 5 (JR guest) would be involved. But it would mean that any story that has her walking home less than 60 minutes later is suspect to say the least.

A lot of that depends on what Qualters means when he says that the video doesn't corroborate what the witness says. Which video? The alley video? Well of course it doesn't, because the sighting wasn't in the alley. If he's saying that NONE of the video they've seen corroborates it, that's a different story, but it's very unclear from the press conference what he's saying.

The other question I'd have on this is as follows. If the "mystery man" is someone they already know, and this person is the last to be seen with LS, then why not name him as a POI along with CR, JR, etc? I understand trying to get the named guys to mess their stories up, but why would LE deem someone like CR to be a POI worth naming, but not this person who was seen with her almost 50 minutes after the last alley sighting?

As for body disposal, someone here said the dumpsters at the apartments are picked up Friday mornings (has that been confirmed?). You'd think anyone living in the apartments would know that and would feel fairly confident nobody would be searching for her until much later in the day after the dumpsters were emptied. Even not knowing that, they might not even have cared if the body was found in the dumpster, even expected it, but instead were just wanting the body out of their place figuring they'd just say something must've happened after leaving their place. Maybe planned to blame it on a mystery homeless guy or something. But then ultimately didn't have to if the police didn't followup soon enough on the possibility they had a potential body taken to the landfill scenario

.

That's probably the most logical explanation for the dumpster theory I've heard yet.

 

[Gabby66]

It's mostly the witness who says she spotted Lauren at 3:38a barely able to stand. Maybe because this is the one witness who actually spoke to me -- I give her details more credence. This idea that you take some coke and that allows you to walk better I dismiss. The idea that she "sobered-up" at any point, to me, makes no sense. This isn't someone who had a bottle of wine with dinner and wanted to wait an hour before driving home. I believe she was getting her high on -- and was going to keep fueling it until she fell down, perhaps literally (sad as it is to say). I don't think she walked up the alley under her own powers, totally. JMO...I understand your position and it may well be right.

Thanks! So at the end, are you inferring that she was carried up that alley? Regarding the 3:38 witness, what do you PERSONALLY make of it? Do you think she was off by an hour and it was really 2:28ish. or do you think she actually was back down there at 3:38? IF the sighting is true and it was an hour earlier (2:38), then she supposedly left JR's house 2 hours later. If she was needing to be carried at 2:28, would she really be in the frame of mind at 3:30 to still be wanting more "party"? I'm not sure. It seems to me that she either sobered up OR OD'd. I just don't see much in between there. Someone who's that sloppy drunk would nearly have fallen over just getting from CR's to JR's

 

[phantomthought]

There is a big clock at 10th & college. NW corner mounted to bldg

So then her response would be I knew it was exactly 3:38 because I looked up at the big clock on 10th & college or my watch,cell phone,announced it on the radio station I was listening to.Give me something here.

 

[northsider]

was there something about LS & CR walk to 5 North where it took them a long to get get to a certain part,, like they walked out of smallwood and it tool them 7 mins to get to the ally? sorry I know the is vague

Good question. It took her no more than 3 minutes to get from Sports to Smallwood, the entrance of which is a block and a half away.

Yet it takes 7 minutes to walk a block up the alley from Smallwood to the entrance of 10th and College?

Were they pursued out of Smallwood? Intercepted in the alley?

 

[jjenny]

Since the alley has cameras, any such pursuit would have been on camera. So pretty clearly it didn't happen.

 

[Frogzilla]

Prayer vigil held for missing IU student Lauren Spierer
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43601152/ns/local_news-indianapolis_in/
"You really get to know the fabric of a community often by the difficult times that it experiences collectively," Robert Spierer said. "We're forever grateful for everything everyone has done, the support that's been given to us."
The Spierers plan a news conference at the Bloomington Police Department Friday at 11am.
Investigators say they plan to make an announcement about the investigation into their daughter's disappearance.

 

[elmomom]

So then her response would be I knew it was exactly 3:38 because I looked up at the big clock on 10th & college or my watch,cell phone,announced it on the radio station I was listening to.Give me something here.

my guess is that she was about to enter her residence (which she would like to keep private) and that she knows exactly when she got home

 

[northsider]

Since the alley has cameras, any such pursuit would have been on camera. So pretty clearly it didn't happen.

No, the alley between 9th and 10th doesn't have any cameras. Or lights, for that matter.

The alley between 10th and College Apartments does, but that alley runs from 10th to 11th...and the cameras stop halfway up the block (where the building stops).

 

[elmomom]

Since the alley has cameras, any such pursuit would have been on camera. So pretty clearly it didn't happen.

I think it was pretty clear that something does happen in the alley that LE alluded to as "activity in the alley"
a pursuit and encounter is as good of a theory to me as any at this point.

 

[phantomthought]

Yet they reportedly searched both JW's and CR/MB's apartments. That doesn't suggest they even have a main theory at this point, because they are not concentrating on any specific POI.

I would be happy if they could just get to the point of POI vs random abduction and be able to direct their resources in one direction.

 

[jjenny]

Walking is an activity. Talking is an activity. Anything can be an activity. So when LE is talking about "activity" I don't think it's pretty clear that something out of the ordinary is happening.

 

[mrsu]

I still most definitely believe the 3:38am sighting. I just think that there are not that many people out on the streets at that hour and with the amount of hoopla this case has created locally, I'm sure the witness would know if it was Lauren or not. I'm wondering now if perhaps it was JR's visitor that she was seen with?? This could explain why none of the images she was shown by LE matched who she saw. This could explain also why nobody local has come forward and said it was not Lauren, but instead themselves and another female. Could be that LS did go right to JR's place, but for some reason JR's visitor and LS leave. It could be that the visitor was attempting to walk Lauren home, she realized she doesn't have her keys and JR's visitor takes her back to his place.

IMO, there is no video of 10th & College, and because of that police say they don't have info to corroborate her story, but it doesn't mean that it never happened, just that there is no video evidence. If the witness was not credible, I do not think she would have been taken to the station to have a sketch developed. IMO, I think the police believed her enough to see if the sketch would resemble any of the current POI's.

I do not think that any of the POI's had any interest in killing her, or motive to do so. I think it's very possible that she could have OD'd or possibly something happened when she hit her head. What I don't understand is, if this happened, why wouldn't these guys call 911? Unless there were copious amounts of drugs, I don't see a reason why they wouldn't call 911, and would instead think it would be better to dispose of her body.

 

[elmomom]

Walking is an activity. Talking is an activity. Anything can be an activity. So when LE is talking about "activity" I don't think it's pretty clear that something out of the ordinary is happening.

Well, it does take them an inordinate amount of time to travel a very short distance so I am assuming that they stopped walking to do whatever activity it was that LE would not identify. there is no way to know if it were an ordinary or out of ordinary activity, as we just don't know.

 

[elmomom]

snip

I do not think that any of the POI's had any interest in killing her, or motive to do so. I think it's very possible that she could have OD'd or possibly something happened when she hit her head. What I don't understand is, if this happened, why wouldn't these guys call 911? Unless there were copious amounts of drugs, I don't see a reason why they wouldn't call 911, and would instead think it would be better to dispose of her body.

This, to me is the $100k question... why not call it in?? Even if there were copious amounts of drugs, clean them up, flush them, bring them next door. Whatever. Isn't the risk of getting caught for hiding her body so much worse than just calling an ambulance?