IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #14

[elmomom]

I didn't disagree with you. I'm the one who said at LS's age in a similar situation, only two things would cause me to leave an apartment alone and on foot at 4:30 a.m. -- a strong need to get away from one guy, or an equally strong desire to be with another. I'm still up in the air. It could be either of the two.

Yes of course I know that not everyone gave me a hard time... it just felt like it at the time! and I do remember this as this really clicked with me -
JR giving her a hard time. Phone call to DR for help, to get her out of there. She finally leaves on her own, and why would she even tell JR where she was headed? She wants to be with JW - and NOT with JR. Great incentive to leave at 4:30 with no shoes.

 

[sv614]

Since according to H-T police also entered CR and MB's apartment in addition to JW's apartment really indicates to me that at this point they still don't have a leading theory.

I would love to know which apartment lessees allowed police and dogs to come in, if any, and which apartments they were forced to obtain warrants for to search, if any.

I feel this is important and telling, and I hope it comes out soon.

 

[jjenny]

I am pretty sure that with dogs, the search needs to be done ASAP. How long after the fact would cadaver dogs (if those were cadaver dogs) be able to indicate that there was a body there at some point of time?

 

[TonyGatto]

Just to clarify, TG, do you mean you have trouble believing she could walk two steps because of her intoxication level? If so, have we had any type of official confirmation about how wasted she really was? Just curious.

I have a feeling she was some level of intoxicated, but I have don't know to what extent or on what.

The witness says she was falling down at 10th and College. She was ejected from Kilroy's and was talking about how she was doiing drugs, according to another source. There's no question she was intoxicated, in my mind, just how bad. Of course, I don't really know cause i wasn't there.

So yes, that's the reason I don't think she was able to make that walk. I could be wrong, just my gut. And if you know anything about me by now -- I don't wait around for "official" confirmation -- because you're not going to get that -- not on this story in this town with this police department.

 

[elmomom]

I am pretty sure that with dogs, the search needs to be done ASAP. How long after the fact would cadaver dogs (if those were cadaver dogs) be able to indicate that there was a body there at some point of time?

I think that depends partially on how long the body was there, and partially on the climate of the room/location. The longer the body is there, the higher the concentration of the compounds that the dogs can detect. The cooler and probably darker the room afterward, the longer the compounds will take to dissipate.
Its certainly worth a try, but I wouldn't take a negative finding to mean very much.

 

[Darcyline]

Thanks for the reply, TG! You are correct that official confirmation will never come, but I am always a bit wary of "sources" especially in high profile cases. I have heard supposed insider sources say a lot of things about this case and a lot of it contradicts.
However, every source does seem to agree that she was pretty intoxicated. I am just not sure if she was too intoxicated for a 10 minute walk or not. I was that drunk college student before that somehow walked home from bars and didn't even remember doing it. It may be possible to be very intoxicated and also somehow walk somewhere. Who knows.

 

[epiphany]

I'm still not convinced that Lauren ever made it into CR/MB's and JW's building.

 

[bessie]

I have trouble believing LS could have taken two steps, let alone turn the corner at College Av. The suggestion that she was walking all the way to JW's seems nearly impossible. But following that theory...are you suggesting she made it all the way to JW's and something bad happened there or are we back to possibility of random abduction along the way? And I guess then you would buy the story that it was LS making the call to DR. Not challenging...just trying to take it a step further.

I know the question was for elmomom, but I'd like to offer a theory.

I think it's plausible that LS would've have attempted the walk to JW's. The night started to out to be fun, but it took a turn for the worse when the fight broke out at Smallwood. Any young woman would've been shaken by that. CR's in bad shape, and she has to help him home. She's not comfortable there, so she decides to go back to JR's. She's lost her phone, shoes, and keys, and she needs to regroup, talk to someone about what happened. Their grandparents were neighbors for 20 years, and even if he was not a close friend, I think he offered a sense of familiarity and safety. But it doesn't turn out that way. Maybe he's loaded, not being helpful. He might've even tried to come on to her. For whatever reason, she doesn't want to be there. She feels sick, tired, and just wants to be home, somewhere safe. DR doesn't answer, so she can't get in her apartment. Maybe she can make it to JW's. After all, she really does love him, and he's the only person who can comfort her now.

 

[elmomom]

The witness says she was falling down at 10th and College. She was ejected from Kilroy's and was talking about how she was doiing drugs, according to another source. There's no question she was intoxicated, in my mind, just how bad. Of course, I don't really know cause i wasn't there.

So yes, that's the reason I don't think she was able to make that walk. I could be wrong, just my gut. And if you know anything about me by now -- I don't wait around for "official" confirmation -- because you're not going to get that -- not on this story in this town with this police department.

yes yes I agree. but then again, the coke may be at 5 North, and that would certainly could revive some of her faculties for a bit.

 

[cluciano63]

I am pretty sure that with dogs, the search needs to be done ASAP. How long after the fact would cadaver dogs (if those were cadaver dogs) be able to indicate that there was a body there at some point of time?

The dogs hit on a spot in the Anthonys back yard, as well as the trunk of Casey's car, a month after it is believed she died, so it is possible to scent human remains much later.

 

[ingra1327]

I would love to know which apartment lessees allowed police and dogs to come in, if any, and which apartments they were forced to obtain warrants for to search, if any.

I feel this is important and telling, and I hope it comes out soon.

I would like to know that too. I don't recall hearing they used dogs to search any apartments before today. Why did it take so long? I would have thought that CR/MB had already given permission. JR may have moved out so he wouldn't have any say. Salzman says that CR had not moved out even though he left town.

 

[sv614]

Is the timing of the announcement about Friday's press conference just a coincidence?

Could they be naming names, or other vital information (evidence?)?

 

[epiphany]

Why is AS, roommate of HT and LS, named by the Herald-Times' today in Who's Who? Don't believe she was one of the two friends who filed the missing person's report. Had she and HT gone with LS and DR earlier in the morning to JR's building (to the party)?

 

[Mophebius]

I brought this up back in thread 6 and saw people posting about it again on the last thread. The "ping" information from POI's cell phones should be attainable in this case, providing that they (POI's) had their cell phones with them during the time period in question from roughly 2am to 2pm June 3rd. LE should be able to get a general idea of the POI's movements. It's not an exact science, but lets say for instance 1 or more POI's made say, a 10-15 mile drive to a secluded/odd location during the time frame. It maybe very useful to LE to be able to place POI's in a suspicious location in or around the time in question.

I know this information can be made available to LE. I live in the Pacific North West and we often times have hikers, climbers, etc. lost, hurt, or trapped in rugged country.

While it may not be an exact science, "Ping" technology can help narrow down a search area drasticly, if like I said you could place POI/s going to a suspicious location in or around the time in question you may have a break in this case.

I really hope that LE has tried this angle on the case.

Last time I posted this people attacked me saying well how could this help find LS, when we know she left her cell at Kilroy's... I know LS left her cell phone at Kilroy's, as has been widely reported. I am speaking of the POI's in this case whom in my best working theory, had at least something to do with Lauren's disappearance.

Bottom line is if this technology can be used to help locate lost or trapped outdoor enthusiasts, maybe it can be worth a shot in this investigation.

 

[bessie]

I am pretty sure that with dogs, the search needs to be done ASAP. How long after the fact would cadaver dogs (if those were cadaver dogs) be able to indicate that there was a body there at some point of time?

It's a good question, and there are differing opinions.
This is from the article I posted last night:

Several squares had been placed beneath a clothed corpse within three hours of death, when some organs and many cells of the human body are still functioning. Over the next month, the dogs did hundreds of trials in which they signalled the contaminated square with 98 per cent accuracy, falling to 94 per cent when the square had been in contact with the corpse for only two minutes.

http://www.biologycorner.com/anatomy/senses/crimedogs.html

This is from an article about the Madeleine McCann case:

John Barrett, a former Scotland Yard dog handler, also indicated that the trained dogs used in an attempt to detect a "death smell" on Mrs McCann's Bible and clothes were brought in too long after Madeleine vanished.
The crucial scent lasts for no longer than a month, he said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1562575/Madeleine-McCanns-parents-flying-back-to-UK.html

 

[cluciano63]

I brought this up back in thread 6 and saw people posting about it again on the last thread. The "ping" information from POI's cell phones should be attainable in this case, providing that they (POI's) had their cell phones with them during the time period in question from roughly 2am to 2pm June 3rd. LE should be able to get a general idea of the POI's movements. It's not an exact science, but lets say for instance 1 or more POI's made say, a 10-15 mile drive to a secluded/odd location during the time frame. It maybe very useful to LE to be able to place POI's in a suspicious location in or around the time in question.

I know this information can be made available to LE. I live in the Pacific North West and we often times have hikers, climbers, etc. lost, hurt, or trapped in rugged country.

While it may not be an exact science, "Ping" technology can help narrow down a search area drasticly, if like I said you could place POI/s going to a suspicious location in or around the time in question you may have a break in this case.

I really hope that LE has tried this angle on the case.

Last time I posted this people attacked me saying well how could this help find LS, when we know she left her cell at Kilroy's... I know LS left her cell phone at Kilroy's, as has been widely reported. I am speaking of the POI's in this case whom in my best working theory, had at least something to do with why Lauren's disappearance.

Bottom line is if this technology can be used to help locate lost or trapped outdoor enthusiasts, maybe it can be worth a shot in this investigation.

I have been counting on and hoping they are getting ping info from the start, on all the POI's...I know it can take a while to get phone records depending on the state and the carriers...so maybe they have some and not others. I am still hoping the crucial one(s) are yet to delivered to LE and that if someone took a very early morning excursion on the 3rd, LE will have a new search area...

 

[epiphany]

Wonder if AS was the other girlfriend contacted by JW when he was looking for Lauren:

Tamir said that's when Wolff contacted her and one of her girlfriends, "asking us if we heard from her."

"We both said we didn't," she said, "and I was in class so he asked me if he could come get my key from me just to check if she was still sleeping in the apartment because it was around 2 p.m. then, and we all sleep late."

http://www.lohud.com/article/201106...shares-details-night-before-her-disappearance

 

[Mophebius]

I would like to know that too. I don't recall hearing they used dogs to search any apartments before today. Why did it take so long? I would have thought that CR/MB had already given permission. JR may have moved out so he wouldn't have any say. Salzman says that CR had not moved out even though he left town.

I read somewhere (found a few links below) that LE did use search dogs in some of the initial searches, as well as searches that took place in some of the heavy growth or wooded areas.

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/28288873/detail.html

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-conf...ght-she-went-missing-20110608,0,2301081.story

http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/local/south_central/police-still-have-hope-for-lauren-spierer

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4328559...t-happened-missing-iu-student-lauren-spierer/

http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=81847

here are some examples I found of LE using K-9's in the search I'll find a few more if needed. I know K-9's have been widely used in this case from the very beggining, including outside of 5 north town homes early on in the investigation, as well as many other locations.

 

[PineMushroom]

Salzmann said Rossman was not the last one to see Spierer that morning; three or four others saw her after Rossman.

Asked what he thinks happened to Spierer, he said, "I have my theory.

"I hope they follow all the leads we've given." Saltzmann said he wants police to arrest the student who punched his client.

Spierer, who police said had been drinking, has a boyfriend who was not with her that morning. Her father she has been in a "very close, loving relationship" with her boyfriend, an Indiana University student from Long Island whom she met years earlier at a summer camp in Pennsylvania. He has helped in the search for her. Spierer's father said he has spoken with him this week but not Rossman. Police said they have spoken with her companion that night — Rossman. Police said they are also employing lie-detector tests but have not said whom they have tested.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201106...ion-has-no-memory-their-last-moments-together

I have always found interesting Salzmann's comments 'I hope they follow all the leads we've given' and wanting the person who punched his client arrested.

 

[Frogzilla]

Detectives following leads in Spierer disappearance-
http://www.wthr.com/story/15002386/detectives-following-leads-in-spierer-disappearance
Nothing new really, just an update of today's events, but includes a video.