IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #18

[imkeylime]

Given LS's alleged condition back at Smallwood, maybe CR walked her home, was assaulted, and then, since they seem to be friendly, she elected to leave with him/follow, despite her condition? And he, perhaps with his pride wounded, went along with it? Like he got hit, but at least he the girl left with him?

I've read of a discrepancy between reports of how she was at CR/MB's ... what if she collapsed in the gravel lot, someone took her back to CR/MB's, and she sobered up a bit there before heading to JR's? Or not? Wasn't it recently posted that she stayed at MB/CR's for longer than JR's? That might not constitute helping MB, however.

 

[bx2]

To the building (ZO's dorm). Your map is great, but it doesn't indicate where the entrances are, or what the precise coverage of the cameras are.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6926640#post6926640"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6926640#post6926640[/ame]

 

[jjenny]

Your source may not be correct.

I've seen the Sears & Sons truck emptying dumpsters after 5PM in the area.

What day? If it were on Friday, even at 5 pm seems unlikely LE would have gotten to the dumpsters yet. By the way the times might not be the same each week. The garbage here where I live is emptied on the same days each weeks, but times could vary substantially. Could be early morning, could be afternoon, and sometimes a lot later in a day.

 

[elmomom]

elmomom is really convinced that I have some connection to JW. I'm simply someone who believes what has been posted about him by one of his friends (plus a post or two by the brother of that person) and someone who I believe is connected to LS's family.

Even if I were not persuaded by them, however, I'd have difficulty explaining JW's involvement (which I can't rule out, just as LE apparently can't), given that there isn't a single witness who puts him at Smallwood, 5 North, anywhere in between, or anywhere other than home on the night in question. Not to mention that LE assuredly has access to LS's phone, which would reflect all of JW's attempts to contact her, and probably have access to his phone (and as someone said here, perhaps car GPS, though I haven't read that anywhere else) data given that they have described him as cooperative.

No, Elmomom is getting very confused at just why some people need to try so hard to convince everyone that JW could not possibly be involved and how "ridiculous" it is to suspect him. Elmomom thinks that LE have made it more than apparent that he is still not cleared of being involved, and for just that reason alone, it would be ridiculous NOT to keep him under suspicion. Add to that people are trying, way too hard, to "clear him". I have no reason to do this for any POI since I have no personal involvement in the case. And in fact, the case is NOT about JW, it is about LS.
And that is what Elmomom thinks. If JW and his allies and his supporters (even those that do not know him) have a problem with him facing scrutiny, they ought to take that up with BPD, not with Elmomom.

 

[jadejazzkayla]

Given LS's alleged condition back at Smallwood, maybe CR walked her home, was assaulted, and then, since they seem to be friendly, she elected to leave with him, despite her condition? And he, perhaps with his pride wounded, went along with it? Like he got hit, but at least he the girl left with him?

I've read of a discrepancy between reports of how she was at CR/MB's ... what if she collapsed in the gravel lot, someone took her back to CR/MB's, and she sobered up a bit there before heading to JR's? Or not? Wasn't it recently posted that she stayed at MB/CR's for longer than JR's? That might not constitute helping MB, however.

bbm...i have not seen any information regarding the amount of time LS was at CR/MB. and i have not seen any information regarding what time she arrived at JR"S.

 

[jenniek]

what boggles my mind is that if CR is the one who helped LS out per the article why why why did he not just drop her off at her apt?? that makes no sense to me that if she was so out of it! I've had friends that were really gone and I stayed with them even though they didn't want to be home just to make sure they were ok. at least we know why CR hasn't been cleared as a POI yet.

 

[Btown]

What day? If it were on Friday, even at 5 pm seems unlikely LE would have gotten to the dumpsters yet. By the way the times might not be the same each week. The garbage here where I live is emptied on the same days each weeks, but times could vary substantially. Could be early morning, could be afternoon, and sometimes a lot later in a day.

I saw a Sears & Sons truck emptying a dumpster on one of the evenings I took pics of the alley between College Ave. and Morton St. I posted pics of the maintenance guys trying to fix the broken light on the north east side of the building that day.

I'll have to go find that post to see what day it was.

Edit:

Found it, it was [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6679900&postcount=4"]Tuesday, June 14th[/ame]. According to the exif data on the image, it was around 5:30PM.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6926640#post6926640

Thanks, sorry I haven't kept up. So we can effectively rule out ZO(/AB) unless (t)he(y) went to JR's or met LS on the street/in the alley, and put knowledge if not responsibility on JR unless it's true that LS left his place never to be seen again.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

And you are aware that comments and status updates can be deleted on Facebook, are you not?

True. But I have yet to see the comment in question reported by a source I find reliable.

 

[Btown]

To the building (ZO's dorm). Your map is great, but it doesn't indicate where the entrances are, or what the precise coverage of the cameras are.

I don't know if its possible to get into the building without being on camera, but I have posted pics of the precise coverage of the cameras on the store front area.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6655043#post6655043"]Here is one[/ame]. I'll have to look for the pic of the camera on the other end.

Ah, [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6679900&postcount=4"]here is the other view[/ame].

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

If JW and his allies and his supporters (even those that do not know him) have a problem with him facing scrutiny, they ought to take that up with BPD, not with Elmomom.

But I don't think he is. LE gave us a timeline and account of the night's events. He isn't on it. And I have serious difficulty figuring out how he factors in given that absence. A random abduction at least is semi-explicable by its randomness. The JW theory essentially posits a random assault that isn't random.

 

[bx2]

Thanks, sorry I haven't kept up. So we can effectively rule out ZO(/AB) unless (t)he(y) went to JR's or met LS on the street/in the alley, and put knowledge if not responsibility on JR unless it's true that LS left his place never to be seen again.

I believe the cameras at 10th and College rule out LS entering there, yes. If ZO was indeed the puncher at Smallwood and therefore most likely a POI on the evening, it seems reasonable to me that his return home would be verifiable by the same video (or in conjunction with the Smallwood video as a set of leaving/return).

 

[Darcyline]

I doubt this was "reported." It may have been the subject of comments on a site or two, but I'm guessing that they conflated the 5/30 and 6/14 posts.

But neither of those posts were anything like what was reported. Like, the report was simply "please refriend me" or something. Like, if they are conflated they were conflated and then changed into something completely different in every way. Which...media is known to do so I am not saying it is impossible.

I am pretty strongly leaning away from JW right now to the point where I would almost eliminate him from my personal (meaning in my opinion) suspects list. But, are you saying that you don't think they had any relationship issues? It just seems strange to me that she was alone with at least one man for the majority of the evening. Maybe it is because I am from the South, but if I spent an entire night drinking, at a bar, walking around, etc with some random man it would mean all was not perfect with my relationship. Unless the guy was gay or my brother.

 

[Tr.]

I've had a problem with the conflicting reports of LS's intentions vs. her appearance.

I think it's one or the other - she was not a "messed up" as described, and ready for more action -possibly went out to the DD's house for more - or she was really really messed up and OD'd at 5 North. Honestly, if she was THAT bad, I can't imagine that she was even capable of leaving JR's 2 hours later, nor that he would have allowed it.

I think that the original story about LS asking MB if he wanted to party came from HT. Since then, I've read that MB's statement says that LS and CR entered the apt., MB put CR to bed and turned to see LS walking out the door.
The later version of MB's account doesn't even mention LS indicating intent to visit JR's as the first reports from HT did.
This may be legal posturing since it has been reported that attorneys for the 5 North boys have been comparing notes.

I'm going to stick with MB's pre-lawyer version through HT. LS probably did ask MB if he wanted to party. It doesn't mean that she was in any shape to do so.
If anything it is further indication that she was not in control of her actions just after 3:00 am.

Whether or not everything HT relayed is point on or not I believe that without HT's quick attempt at fact gathering and subsequent interviews with the media, we would have a whole lot less to work with then we do.
Nice work HT.

 

[cspring]

So r u saying that if she would have gone to ZOs she woulda been on camera? Im using my phone-i Dont wanna pour back thru pics...sorry if i missed the answer already.
Whats been put out today has given me a couple of whole new "scenarios".
Did she have her keys the first time she went to Smalllwood?

 

[imkeylime]

bbm...i have not seen any information regarding the amount of time LS was at CR/MB. and i have not seen any information regarding what time she arrived at JR"S.

There was a discussion ... a few pages back, I believe ... regarding this. If I recall correctly, it was reported somewhere that she spent a small amount of time at MB/CR's and then left when MB didn't want to party. But another source reported that she spent much longer at MB/CR's and less time at JR's, which would give her less time to party, etc., there. I'll try to find it ...

 

[bx2]

So r u saying that if she would have gone to ZOs she woulda been on camera? Im using my phone-i Dont wanna pour back thru pics...sorry if i missed the answer already.
Whats been put out today has given me a couple of whole new "scenarios".
Did she have her keys the first time she went to Smalllwood?

Yes to both questions (at least we've been led to believe that she dropped her keypurse when heading toward 5 North after leaving Smallwood).

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

But, are you saying that you don't think they had any relationship issues? It just seems strange to me that she was alone with at least one man for the majority of the evening. Maybe it is because I am from the South, but if I spent an entire night drinking, at a bar, walking around, etc with some random man it would mean all was not perfect with my relationship. Unless the guy was gay or my brother.

I've read a lot of that perspective, and believe it is a function of differences of age and/or geography.

What I have read from sources that I believe are reliable (as well as the public account of HT) says only good things about the relationship.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

Maybe I'm forgetting something, but I don't really know how anyone has any idea how long she spent at MB/CR's or JR's.

 

[elmomom]

But I don't think he is. LE gave us a timeline and account of the night's events. He isn't on it. And I have serious difficulty figuring out how he factors in given that absence. A random abduction at least is semi-explicable by its randomness. The JW theory essentially posits a random assault that isn't random.

LE has also recently been to his home searching, and with K9 units. Since that is the case, I feel it would be silly to disregard the chance that LE may have had a reason to be there.
There's no reason to convince others to "clear him" if you take away personal involvement motivation. As you yourself admitted, you have personal beliefs due to interactions with his brother and his friend. Please be aware that I find testimony given by people like that fairly meaningless. Think of how many times intimate friends and relatives have said "but he could never have done that! I know him!" and they turn out wrong.