IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #23
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Yep. It doesn't appear to get LE anywhere, and LS appears to have vanished into thin air. Maybe it's time to change the approach, cause it doesn't appear to be working.
Darcyline
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Yeah, I have a bad feeling about the entire case because it doesn't feel like it is going anywhere. Some people think it is all but solved and they are just building a case right now, but I am not sure of that at all. I think they were/are hoping the landfill search and everyone coming back for classes would reveal something. Landfill was a bust, sadly.
I wonder if they will eventually start releasing tidbits of information. I have seen other cases do that once the case went cold.
I wonder if they will eventually start releasing tidbits of information. I have seen other cases do that once the case went cold.
If it was all but solved I think they would have found a body by now. Landfill search produced nothing, which is extremely disappointing, and I think it shows LE is nowhere close to solving it.
http://www.wthr.com/story/15363599/spierers-parents-concerned-message-isnt-heeded
"You can not walk by and expect somebody else to do the right thing. You have to take it upon yourself to do the right thing and that is the message we want people to hear, understand, absorb and incorporate into their behavior," Spierer said.
Interesting. Earlier she said something about calling 911 - three numbers that could change your future. Now, she refers to people "walking by". That choice of phrasing makes me think that she believes something happened outside. I've always really believed it was an accident, but now I strongly believe that. These recent statements by CS make me believe she knows something. "You can not walk by and expect somebody else to do the right thing."...seems to give some credibility to the 3:38 witness, huh?
"You can not walk by and expect somebody else to do the right thing. You have to take it upon yourself to do the right thing and that is the message we want people to hear, understand, absorb and incorporate into their behavior," Spierer said.
Interesting. Earlier she said something about calling 911 - three numbers that could change your future. Now, she refers to people "walking by". That choice of phrasing makes me think that she believes something happened outside. I've always really believed it was an accident, but now I strongly believe that. These recent statements by CS make me believe she knows something. "You can not walk by and expect somebody else to do the right thing."...seems to give some credibility to the 3:38 witness, huh?
i am new to WS, but have been reading and following along with this case. it's great to read all the diligent thinking. so, thank you.
regarding the alley, i've always been curious about the way LE has skirted around describing what they actually saw on video. it's always made sense that they saw LS and CR twice, but somehow, it also seems that they're saying something more vague (for at least one of the two sightings). yes, they saw them "making their way" but they also said the last time LS was seen on video was with an acquaintance at 2:57. this seems like a slightly different account. the above poster who mentioned that maybe LS stayed in the alley longer than CR reminded me of a theory that i've always had.
perhaps, in fact, she fell down/passed out/sat down for a break. perhaps CR, slightly out of his mind, scared, drunk, high, whatever, continued on. and someone following them from the altercation at SW (or someone who just happened to be out there) caught up with or found lauren.
the other thing that has lead me to this theory is that i've never been able to discount the 3:38 witness's account. it seems far too detailed and nuanced to be a lie.
therefore, perhaps maybe the mystery man described in the 3:38 sighting somehow hung with lauren for the next half hour or so (this explains her things being left out there) and then ended up slinging her over his shoulder...trying to get her to go home, etc. in other words, maybe she was outside that whole time between 2:57 and 3:38. it sounds like a long time, but you never know.
if, in fact, she was in a pretty bad state at that time, maybe the MM took her to where she'd said she was originally going (JR's or CR's) and panic ensued when they realized she was unconscious or whatever.
why, then, would MB say what he said? maybe because he is covering for CR who said he didn't remember what happened, but that he left lauren there. this sounds simple, but people can get worked up into tizzies when they've been out all night drinking, etc., and something goes wrong. also, at this point, JR is involved because they're perhaps at his place and/or simply because it all started at his place with the party supplies he had. thus, they are all in it together.
just a theory. let the hole-poking begin.
regarding the alley, i've always been curious about the way LE has skirted around describing what they actually saw on video. it's always made sense that they saw LS and CR twice, but somehow, it also seems that they're saying something more vague (for at least one of the two sightings). yes, they saw them "making their way" but they also said the last time LS was seen on video was with an acquaintance at 2:57. this seems like a slightly different account. the above poster who mentioned that maybe LS stayed in the alley longer than CR reminded me of a theory that i've always had.
perhaps, in fact, she fell down/passed out/sat down for a break. perhaps CR, slightly out of his mind, scared, drunk, high, whatever, continued on. and someone following them from the altercation at SW (or someone who just happened to be out there) caught up with or found lauren.
the other thing that has lead me to this theory is that i've never been able to discount the 3:38 witness's account. it seems far too detailed and nuanced to be a lie.
therefore, perhaps maybe the mystery man described in the 3:38 sighting somehow hung with lauren for the next half hour or so (this explains her things being left out there) and then ended up slinging her over his shoulder...trying to get her to go home, etc. in other words, maybe she was outside that whole time between 2:57 and 3:38. it sounds like a long time, but you never know.
if, in fact, she was in a pretty bad state at that time, maybe the MM took her to where she'd said she was originally going (JR's or CR's) and panic ensued when they realized she was unconscious or whatever.
why, then, would MB say what he said? maybe because he is covering for CR who said he didn't remember what happened, but that he left lauren there. this sounds simple, but people can get worked up into tizzies when they've been out all night drinking, etc., and something goes wrong. also, at this point, JR is involved because they're perhaps at his place and/or simply because it all started at his place with the party supplies he had. thus, they are all in it together.
just a theory. let the hole-poking begin.
Kiln Wood
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BBM
Reading the part I have bolded reminds me of something I read on WS (but I don't remember where) that goes along the lines of, "All evil needs to succeed is for good people to do nothing." When I read that, I wondered if the words were originally spoken or written by Edmund Burke, but I'm all done in by a day of moving furniture so please excuse my lack of authentication.
I think that's reading way too much into what they are trying to say. Young women are still walking inebriated on campus, and the parents are upset over this. I don't see how it means anything else.
That only means the two of them (LS and presumably CR) were making their way through the alley. If the description of the video after LS got out of the elevator is accurate, I can only imagine the two of them were stumbling all over the place.
I agree that the comment from CS didn't indicate to me that she believed that someone had "walked by" LS and ignored her... but rather that MANY people who she believed were friends let her down that night...
and that CS is appalled that young women are ignoring what has recently happened (as well as the more recent incidents on/off campus) and continuing such risky behavior.
maybe instead of putting up flyers we should ALL go out during midnight to 4am... and actually approach people who are being so stupid... and offer them assistance... and a card that they can read when they're in a more sober state -- that tells them to be more careful??
If we go out at 4 am we might be the one who end up missing. What's that saying-nothing good happens after midnight.
Mergatroid
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The part of the CS message that catches me each time I read it is: "...as June 2nd becomes June 3rd..." (from memory so I may not have it exactly right.)
To me that is such an odd phrase to include. When I read it I cant help but wonder if CS might be using words verbatim from a text or vm on LS's phone from that night/morning. Then again, maybe that phrase was included to simply clarify the time of day for readers.
Just seems sort of strange to me.
To me that is such an odd phrase to include. When I read it I cant help but wonder if CS might be using words verbatim from a text or vm on LS's phone from that night/morning. Then again, maybe that phrase was included to simply clarify the time of day for readers.
Just seems sort of strange to me.
nobody's gonna mess with ME!! I'm invincible... NOT...
ok.. you're right -- in pairs.. only in pairs...
ALL THEORY/DEVIL'S ADVOCATE STUFF:
Maybe an inebriated CR went to bed, blackout drunk/high. And maybe MB saw LS out of their apt just like he said. Maybe LS did ask MB if he wanted to "party".
So LS tells MB that she is going to JR's, and MB takes her word for it. But she never makes it to JR's.
Either she is intercepted before she gets there by one of the guys (JR/DB/AB/ZO?) or she inadvertently loses her way and ends up outside.
The "activity" in the alley is NOT with CR, but perhaps with JR/DB/AB and involves drug use or some sort of sexual activity. Either way, LE is not going to smear the victim's name by giving any specifics. And what does it matter? They know who she's with. And they make that clear to the guy (perp?) by saying so on the record.
Someone slings LS over his shoulder at 3:38am. Shortly thereafter she is in a car (DB's?). Soon after that she is in Martinsville (4am ping?!). And before you know it, DR is getting an "all clear" phone call at 4:15am.
CR wakes up the next morning thinking OMG, WTF happened? I was with LS. Is LS OK? So he asked around, maybe tries to reach her. He gets worried. He asks a buddy he runs into at CVS, but to no avail. But boy does CR feel awful, afraid, responsible, guilty. Maybe he's heard more rumors since then ... but he can't bring himself to look the situation in the eye.
But none of that matters, because what they are looking for has been burned in the fire in Martinsville on June 17, exactly 2 days before a scheduled search in the area.
NOTE: I would definitely, 100% put myself in the demographic of these "kids". And I am in their age group (admittedly a couple of years older, but mid-20s here). Trust me, "party" is a euphemism for drug use - typically cocaine - especially coming from a lawyer who could just as easily have said "hang out" if it were nothing or "take drugs" if it were significant. The fact that many of you are speculating about the potential innocence of this phrase proves that CR's lawyer achieved his objective.
ALL SPECULATION/THEORY/MY OPINION
The "activity" in the alley (on camera) is before she ever got to CR/MB's apartment, so it could not be after she left. If she never made it to JR's, JR would have no reason to say that she did, and LE wouldn't have put that she was last seen at 4:30 am into the official timeline.
Her making it to that apartment is unverified. And he would have a reason to lie and say that she made it to his apartment and left safely if the alternative was that he gave her/did more drugs with her until she OD'd and then got rid of the body.
IDK, because he's not the brightest crayon in the box and spoke with HT (who this info originally came from) before he purchased a shiny attorney?
I'm not saying this is the theory I believe in, just that it's a POV to consider because it could raise more questions, get brains thinking outside of the narrative that is accepted by the masses right now. What if she did show up at his door, and there was a witness in the hallway?
Maybe he said "you can't stay here [in your inebriated conditions], let's do this outside."
Maybe by the time she got to his place she was visibly on the edge of an OD and he just wanted her OUT?
Are you discrediting the 3:38am witness sighting?
Pedrosmom
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I never heard that she had her phone after Killroys. Are you saying she was at Killroys at 12:16 and again at 2:30? If memory serves, she was watcing the game at JR's in the 12:15 ish time frame, then went to Killroys. Perhaps that is the clue the parents are alluding to, i.e., she last used her phone at 12:16 when she was at JR's?
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