IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #23

[Walker]

Other posters have suggested that maybe CR and LS were drugged at the bar. But why would someone drug them? Maybe to facilitate a robbery?

 

[jjenny]

I don't believe the 3:38 am sighting story at all. It's a known fact eyewitness testimony is frequently unreliable. And I recall there were quite a few people who claim to have seen Laci Peterson after she went missing. So I don't see why I should believe the 3:38 sighting in the absence of any corroborating evidence. And if LE believed that story they would be putting that time into their timeline.

 

[sv614]

I don't believe the 3:38 am sighting story at all. It's a known fact eyewitness testimony is frequently unreliable. And I recall there were quite a few people who claim to have seen Laci Peterson after she went missing. So I don't see why I should believe the 3:38 sighting in the absence of any corroborating evidence. And if LE believed that story they would be putting that time into their timeline.

Maybe but this doesn't sound quite discredit it either:

“What I’m here to tell you is that we have reviewed the video, not only the timeline that we have been using, ... and where [LS] does in fact appear ... she does appear in that video with someone that is already known to investigators. We have also reviewed it during the time period where it has been reported, essentially an hour later (at 3:38 a.m.), and we do not find any evidence that supports that information,” Qualters said.

What does IN THAT VIDEO mean? The only thing clear to me in this statement is that the time is off.

jjenny, you seem to have really strong opinions about this. So out of genuine curiosity, what do you think happened to LS?

 

[Walker]

In the Morgan Harrington case, LE was able to determine at what point in time MH's cell phone became disconnected from its power base. Either MH dropped it, and the battery fell out, or someone removed the battery from the cell, hoping to avoid pings. Did LS's cell become disconnected from its power base?

 

[jjenny]

In the Morgan Harrington case, LE was able to determine at what point in time MH's cell phone became disconnected from its power base. Either MH dropped it, and the battery fell out, or someone removed the battery from the cell, hoping to avoid pings. Did LS's cell become disconnected from its power base?

Her phone was not disconnected. It was left in the bar. We know that because JW was texting her, and bar employees told him the phone was at the bar. Which means the phone was on, the battery was in it, it was never disconnected. Just not with LS..

 

[sv614]

:waitasec:

Other posters have suggested that maybe CR and LS were drugged at the bar. But why would someone drug them? Maybe to facilitate a robbery?

Eh, I doubt it. They were probably just on drugs, by choice.

 

[phantomthought]

Yep. It doesn't appear to get LE anywhere, and LS appears to have vanished into thin air. Maybe it's time to change the approach, cause it doesn't appear to be working.

I would agree.It seams to me LE is far to concerned with not publicly involving people in this case than they are with aggressively investigating it.I have always felt their best chance at solving this case was a suspect or witness being caught on one of the cameras in the area.The fact that they do not seam to be very aggressive in finding these people is very disheartening.

 

[Pedrosmom]

Her phone was not disconnected. It was left in the bar. We know that because JW was texting her, and bar employees told him the phone was at the bar. Which means the phone was on, the battery was in it, it was never disconnected. Just not with LS..

The burning question I have in my mind is WHEN did the bar call JW and tell him about the cell phone being there. I would imagine that he hauled *advertiser censored** over there the minute he got the call and was able to read through all her texts. That's why I cannot exclude JW. We don't know what those texts said or whether Lauren meant to delete them. Whomever sent her a text in that time frame had no idea that someone else would be reading them. Let's just speculate, as we all do at times, that there was some texting between LS and CR that got JW in a fuming mess. When did he get that phone?

 

[thesaint]

I imagine an unattended cell phone sitting on a table or wherever at a bar is v unlikely to be regarded as lost until after the bar closes.

Chances are the owner of the unattended-pre-bar-close cell phone is simply in the bathroom, outside having a smoke or otherwise indisposed and will return before/at closing-time to retrieve their phone (and might be a bit po'd if they do go back to where they left it and find out bar employees have taken it and have been scrolling through their contacts/text messages).

And it's doubtful the bar employees started calling LS's contacts at 3:30 am. Most likely they put it up on a secure lost and found shelf to be dealt with the next day. So probably sometime during the day Friday (after 11 am? not sure what time Kilroy's opens).

 

[akh]

About the 3:38AM sighting...
For whatever reason I've always believed it to be important and that the police wanted to use it as their trump card when the boys talked. Except the boys didn't talk, or didn't talk enough that they said anything that could be called out as a lie due to the 3:38AM sighting.

Based on what we know, it's possible the 3:38AM sighting could still fit in with the boys' stories because she wouldn't have had to have gone directly from CR's to JR's. Obviously it gets murky if someone had to carry her back to JR's but it's not out of the realm of possibility she wasn't as bad as the witness thought and wanted put down and went to JR's on her own... or was left at his door and managed to come in on her own.

Soooo if the boys' aren't talking and their stories are still possible whether plausible or not, you'd think if LE took the 3:38AM sighting seriously they'd want to speak with whoever the person was that picked her up. They'd have to know the boys aren't talking enough to allow this to be used against them. LE would want to know why this person hasn't come forward with this part of the story. That's assuming they know who it is or could find out. If he's really a mystery man you'd expect a sketch to be released. So I'm starting to think they already have talked to this person or they really don't believe the sighting.

It doesn't make sense they'd not be more interested in the sighting at this point otherwise. They are not going to figure out from CR/JR/MB because they aren't talking it appears.

 

[Gabby66]

I never heard that she had her phone after Killroys. Are you saying she was at Killroys at 12:16 and again at 2:30? If memory serves, she was watcing the game at JR's in the 12:15 ish time frame, then went to Killroys. Perhaps that is the clue the parents are alluding to, i.e., she last used her phone at 12:16 when she was at JR's?

At some point earlier in the thread, it was mentioned that CS (I believe) stated that the last time LS used her cell was at 12:16 BEFORE she left SW to go to JR's. This means that the entire time she was at JR's, then went to Kilroy's, where she left the phone, it was not used. This is despite the fact that JW claims that he was texting her and unable to reach her, so he went to bed at 2:30ish. It doesn't appear that she left the phone at Sport's until around 2:15. So, was he lying about texting her? Was he texting her and she was ignoring it? Did she have her phone turned off? Did someone else have her phone? Lots of questions I have about this info.

 

[Gabby66]

I think that's reading way too much into what they are trying to say. Young women are still walking inebriated on campus, and the parents are upset over this. I don't see how it means anything else.

I am putting my quote at the bottom, to show what your quote was in reference to. If CS was trying to reach out to young inebriated women, asking them to avoid walking on campus alone, then why not say that? Her target does NOT appear to be the young inebriated women. She appears to be targeting the people who may be walking past them once they get into trouble (fall over, pass out, OD, etc.). "You can not walk by and expect somebody else to do the right thing.You have to take it upon yourself to do the right thing ..." That is pretty clear to me, to whom she's speaking - not the young women. "and that is the message we want people to hear, understand, absorb and incorporate into their behavior." I feel this, coupled with her previous statement centered around how calling 911 could change your future (as opposed to doing nothing) are clear that she's reaching out to passerbys and friends to help in emergency situations. I absolutely agree with you that they're upset about the young women walking around drunk, b/c they've made comments about that as well. However, in this particular quote, I feel that they're sending out a message to those who may come upon them and IMO it likely has something to do with what they think happened to LS.


Originally Posted by Gabby66
http://www.wthr.com/story/15363599/s...ge-isnt-heeded

"You can not walk by and expect somebody else to do the right thing. You have to take it upon yourself to do the right thing and that is the message we want people to hear, understand, absorb and incorporate into their behavior," Spierer said.

Interesting. Earlier she said something about calling 911 - three numbers that could change your future. Now, she refers to people "walking by". That choice of phrasing makes me think that she believes something happened outside. I've always really believed it was an accident, but now I strongly believe that. These recent statements by CS make me believe she knows something. "You can not walk by and expect somebody else to do the right thing."...seems to give some credibility to the 3:38 witness, huh?

 

[Seagull]

The "activity" in the alley (on camera) is before she ever got to CR/MB's apartment, so it could not be after she left. If she never made it to JR's, JR would have no reason to say that she did, and LE wouldn't have put that she was last seen at 4:30 am into the official timeline.

i've always felt like the 4:30 time was simply "chosen" by those relaying the timeline (HT/JR?) to corroborate the 4:15 phone call. 4:30 is also for all intents and purposes, unverified.

in my mind, she was probably at JR's at the time of the 4:15 call (whether alive and making decisions at that time or not, is the question) or like sv614 mentioned, in martinsville being hidden.

all just opinion on the road down a hypothetical theory, of course.

 

[jjenny]

Maybe but this doesn't sound quite discredit it either:

“What I’m here to tell you is that we have reviewed the video, not only the timeline that we have been using, ... and where [LS] does in fact appear ... she does appear in that video with someone that is already known to investigators. We have also reviewed it during the time period where it has been reported, essentially an hour later (at 3:38 a.m.), and we do not find any evidence that supports that information,” Qualters said.

What does IN THAT VIDEO mean? The only thing clear to me in this statement is that the time is off.

jjenny, you seem to have really strong opinions about this. So out of genuine curiosity, what do you think happened to LS?

I think what it means is that LE has LS on video at ~ 2:38 am, which would have been around time she left the bar and went to smallwood, which fits with the rest of the timeline. No doubt Kilroy has video of LS being there presumably with CR, so that's not surprising LS is on video at 2.38 am. Absolutely nothing to suggest LE believes the witness actually saw her at 3.38 am. And in fact Qualters said that they have no evidence to suggest LS was out where witness said she was at 3.38 am.

 

[sv614]

I don't believe the 3:38 am sighting story at all. It's a known fact eyewitness testimony is frequently unreliable. And I recall there were quite a few people who claim to have seen Laci Peterson after she went missing. So I don't see why I should believe the 3:38 sighting in the absence of any corroborating evidence. And if LE believed that story they would be putting that time into their timeline.

Yes but this isn't a Laci Peterson after-she's-gone-missing sighting or the Ghost of Natalee Holloway.

This is a witness that spoke with Tony Gatto, at length, on the record (albeit anonymous), who Tony has vouched for incessantly. She spoke of LS's extremely impaired condition before it was widely accepted by the general public.

She spoke of eyes rolling, stumbling, and being completely out of it, BEFORE she was reported missing, not AFTER (like Laci).

Don't forget that LE referred to that video as existing. "... she does appear in that video with someone that is already known to investigators ...". But they discredit the time: “I can’t say that she didn’t see Lauren,” Qualters continued. “It does not appear that she saw Lauren at the time that was reported by other sources.”

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/22/news.qp-4391232.sto

LE has not discredited the story. On the contrary, they were vague and ambiguous, as if purposely trying to brush that little witness thing under the rug. And maybe it is indeed - as someone had said before - their trump card. They don't want the public focusing on it because it is or could end up being a big part of their case.

And to this day, the last corroboration of Lauren's whereabouts that LE lists is at 2:51am.

You said before JR would have no reason to lie about her being at his apt around 4am - but that is uncorroborated as well. Yet you believe that, but not the witness testimony?

For me, the witness thing is still huge.

 

[sv614]

I think what it means is that LE has LS on video at ~ 2:38 am, which would have been around time she left the bar and went to smallwood, which fits with the rest of the timeline. No doubt Kilroy has video of LS being there presumably with CR, so that's not surprising LS is on video at 2.38 am. Absolutely nothing to suggest LE believes the witness actually saw her at 3.38 am. And in fact Qualters said that they have no evidence to suggest LS was out where witness said she was at 3.38 am.

Ok, got it. So the official timeline is she left Kilroy's at 2:30am and got to Smallwood at 2:42am. You're saying this witness sighting could have happened at 2:38am? Or just that she was seen at 2:38am on camera, but not necessarily in the scenario described by the witness?

 

[jjenny]

Ok, got it. So the official timeline is she left Kilroy's at 2:30am and got to Smallwood at 2:42am. You're saying this witness sighting could have happened at 2:38am? Or just that she was seen at 2:38am on camera, but not necessarily in the scenario described by the witness?

Yes, Qualters appears to be saying LS is on video before she returned to Smallwood. With an individual already known to investigators-I presume CR. Which is not surprising since I presume Kilroy's has cameras. I really don't know if witness saw her then-and Qualters appears to be saying he doesn't know that as well. But Qualters said they don't have any evidence she was out again at 3:38 am.

 

[IndyMom]

Fox 59 just showed the JR video again with NO voiceover. It clearly shows that they ask if he has a message for the parents and he replies with "I deal with them privately, I talk to them privately." Why won't they post that version online?!?

They also included this quote from CS, which I hadn't seen:

"We do not have, and have never had any relationship with JR. I have never spoken with JR about L's disappearance and I have had absolutely no interaction with him whatsoever."

Maybe this was already posted, but here's the link, although the JR quote is incorrect in the article. http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-laur...-rosenbaum-is-lying-20110830,0,3219029.column

 

[imkeylime]

At some point earlier in the thread, it was mentioned that CS (I believe) stated that the last time LS used her cell was at 12:16 BEFORE she left SW to go to JR's. This means that the entire time she was at JR's, then went to Kilroy's, where she left the phone, it was not used. This is despite the fact that JW claims that he was texting her and unable to reach her, so he went to bed at 2:30ish. It doesn't appear that she left the phone at Sport's until around 2:15. So, was he lying about texting her? Was he texting her and she was ignoring it? Did she have her phone turned off? Did someone else have her phone? Lots of questions I have about this info.

I've missed a bit due to Irene, but this comes to mind. When CS says LS last used her cell at SW, it makes me ask why, too. She would have had a chance to at JR's, but apparently didn't use it then or at Sports. I wonder if she was checking calls/texts but not returning them. I've seen my daughter do this ... it's like me screening calls on my answering machine. If JW or HT, for instance, weren't thrilled with where she was headed and/or with whom, maybe she just decided to ignore them, as you suggest. At some point, she also might have been too inebriated to pick up, of course ... or just physically away from her phone earlier vs. later.

JW is not my biggest POI, but the status of heir relationship could have informed what happened. Even the stuff about her "refriending" him on FB ... while it seems like a formality, her not being his FB friend would be a way to keep him out of the loop. Maybe he didn't approve of some of her friends or activities and this was how she dealt with it?

 

[imkeylime]

Fox 59 just showed the JR video again with NO voiceover. It clearly shows that they ask if he has a message for the parents and he replies with "I deal with them privately, I talk to them privately." Why won't they post that version online?!?

They also included this quote from CS, which I hadn't seen:

"We do not have, and have never had any relationship with JR. I have never spoken with JR about L's disappearance and I have had absolutely no interaction with him whatsoever."

Maybe this was already posted, but here's the link, although the JR quote is incorrect in the article. http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-laur...-rosenbaum-is-lying-20110830,0,3219029.column

JR's attorney must be rather livid with him about now. He's either lying or jumbling up his tenses ... maybe he plans on talking with them privately? Wishful thinking ...